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Old January 10th, 2013, 05:57 AM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Before we talk about making BER a hub, you might want to open the actual airport.

What is taking so long? Whatever happened to german efficiency?
i'm agree with you.
before planning BER as hub for somes airlines. but for what we've planning what airlines will use BER as hub if the airport is still not open yet.

what about the interior, lcd/led monitor, lift, travelator, baggage coursel etc that's installed before?
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #782
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News get even worse now.

The construction and planing faults are so bad that it might not open before 2017 now. Its even speculated that a complete demolition might be the best option.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-12020184.html

So good buy to all Berlin hub dreams. Don't think airlines will realize their projected Berlin ambitions now. They will maintain their domestic Berlin connections but international traffic will grow in Munich and Frankfurt.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 01:44 PM   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
News get even worse now.

The construction and planing faults are so bad that it might not open before 2017 now. Its even speculated that a complete demolition might be the best option.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-12020184.html

So good buy to all Berlin hub dreams. Don't think airlines will realize their projected Berlin ambitions now. They will maintain their domestic Berlin connections but international traffic will grow in Munich and Frankfurt.
Ah that's bullshit!!! That so-called expert is an idiot!!! He was the main critic back 5 years ago labeling BER "too big" - now he's saying it's too small! While he's right with his "too small"-assessment now, he has lost all credibility with me. He also likes to be mentioned in the media! If he says 2017, or even saying that it might be demolished then that's GROSSLY exaggerated and unrealistic and panicky bullcrap!!

2015 is realistic in my view!

So please, don't make it sound like Armageddon only based on one interview / article.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 04:25 AM   #784
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Sounds a bit interesting and disturbing... Is it really going to be 2015, sooner, or later? And question: is Fraport the main contractor to build the new Brandenburg Airport, or was it awarded to another company? It seems like the new airport is still going through some legal wrangling of some sort...

I hope the new terminal will be done sooner so that Berlin can decommission (and finally close for good) Tegel and Schoenfeld Airports as soon as possible.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 05:34 AM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Sounds a bit interesting and disturbing... Is it really going to be 2015, sooner, or later? And question: is Fraport the main contractor to build the new Brandenburg Airport, or was it awarded to another company? It seems like the new airport is still going through some legal wrangling of some sort...

I hope the new terminal will be done sooner so that Berlin can decommission (and finally close for good) Tegel and Schoenfeld Airports as soon as possible.
It'll be late 2014 at the earliest - but everyone is guessing that 2015 is more likely. Thorough assessment will be carried out over next 6 months before a new date will be revealed.

Fraport has nothing to do with BER. Building BER was contracted in small pieces to many local and national contractors/companies (to avoid high costs). Some say that's one reason why BER so far has failed to materialize: lack of expertise and experience, resulting in poor quality work and now even more expensive reworks.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 08:29 AM   #786
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The so-called expert is stupid. Either he's gonna (purposely) endanger the new Berlin Bradenberg Airport, or he is jut smoking endo.

Also, the expert says the new airport's terminal is too small and may have insufficient capacity. Does an initial per-annum capacity of 30 million passengers ring a bell? He probably hasn't heard about the expansion plans involving two satellite concourses, either.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
The so-called expert is stupid. Either he's gonna (purposely) endanger the new Berlin Bradenberg Airport, or he is jut smoking endo.

Also, the expert says the new airport's terminal is too small and may have insufficient capacity. Does an initial per-annum capacity of 30 million passengers ring a bell? He probably hasn't heard about the expansion plans involving two satellite concourses, either.
Hmmm, what do you mean "he is jut smoking endo"? It seems like you are heavily criticizing this "expert", possibly because he has no idea what he is talking about, let alone explore the airport area with his own ideas and observe the progress made in it.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 03:36 PM   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djtan73 View Post
Don't know if this has been answered, but will BER likely surpass Munich's figures in terms of air passenger traffic?
BER (TXL/SXF) already has surpassed MUC in terms of single passengers at the airport. As only few people know, the airport passenger (PAX) statistics counts all transfer passenger twice. Means: If a single person lands at an airport and takes a flight to somewhere else, this person counts for 2 in the statistic. This method of counting favors hubs like MUC and FRA.

BER has already surpassed MUC and is almost on par with FRA when PAX is counted singularly.

Bottom line: Once BER has established a major hub function (Air Berlin), transfer passengers will rise and so will the official airport PAX numbers. It can be expected, that BER will quickly move up to MUC passenger numbers (by 2020). Don΄t forget that no German city can compete with Berlin as tourist destination and the future growth. Berlin is also the fastest growing city in terms of population in Germany.

Last edited by Dr_Cosmo; January 14th, 2013 at 03:43 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 05:02 AM   #789
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Of course they are counted twice because they use two times a plane from that airport. There is absolutely no reason to count transfer passengers only once.

That same person could also arrive, go to the city a few days and then leave. Not much different than leaving again on the same day.

If you count transfer passenger only once then you should also count city tourists only once.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 01:10 PM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Cosmo View Post
BER (TXL/SXF) already has surpassed MUC in terms of single passengers at the airport. As only few people know, the airport passenger (PAX) statistics counts all transfer passenger twice. Means: If a single person lands at an airport and takes a flight to somewhere else, this person counts for 2 in the statistic. This method of counting favors hubs like MUC and FRA.

BER has already surpassed MUC and is almost on par with FRA when PAX is counted singularly.

Bottom line: Once BER has established a major hub function (Air Berlin), transfer passengers will rise and so will the official airport PAX numbers. It can be expected, that BER will quickly move up to MUC passenger numbers (by 2020). Don΄t forget that no German city can compete with Berlin as tourist destination and the future growth. Berlin is also the fastest growing city in terms of population in Germany.
Yeah mate, don't get too excited! In terms of PAX BER doesn't and won't play in the same league as MUC (everything else is wishful thinking).
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Old January 15th, 2013, 03:13 PM   #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
In terms of PAX BER doesn't and won't play in the same league as MUC (everything else is wishful thinking).
As mentioned: BER has already more single passengers in a year than MUC since 2010.
Only the hub function created by Lufthansa ( numbers of transfer PAX) makes MUC leading.
This is no surprise, Berlin metro area is larger, the tourism destination is twice as large as Munich.

2009


2012
BER (SXF + TXL) 25 million PAX (4% transfer PAX)
MUC 38 million PAX (40% transfer PAX)
FRA 58 million PAX (60% transfer PAX)

BTW, when measured with a global yardstick, the 13 million PAX gap of BER-MUC is basically nothing.

Last edited by Dr_Cosmo; January 15th, 2013 at 04:51 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #792
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Most of the PAX in Berlin are low cost tourists from europe, while a huge number of pax in muc are business travellers, especially international business travellers

The number of passengers alone doesnt say anything about the importance of an airport.

Today its all about hubbing passengers from one continent to another.
Thats what you make money with, thats whats boosting your local economy.

As long as theres no international Airline-Alliance hubbing passengers via BER, it simply wont play in the same league as MUC and FRA. No matter how much teenage backpackers use that airport.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 05:06 PM   #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuddel Knutsch View Post
Most of the PAX in Berlin are low cost tourists from europe
Wrong. Berlin is one of the largest congress centers and trade fair destinations on the globe. Only Frankfurt can compete in terms of business travelers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuddel Knutsch View Post
As long as theres no international Airline-Alliance hubbing passengers via BER.
Wrong again. Air Berlin has already started a hub system at TXL, which is obviously limited due to small capacity. Only the future BER will enhance the Air Berlin (Oneworld member) operations.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 03:32 AM   #794
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So the biggest problem with BER is the fire suppression system? What else is faulty?
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Old January 17th, 2013, 09:53 AM   #795
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Source: www.aviazionecivile.it

An Italian employee in Berlin posted this update in the aforementioned forum:

Dear colleagues,
Today the supervisory board of Berlin Brandenburg Airport has discussed the consequences of the latest delay to the project. As reported by the media the opening date of 27 October 2013 cannot be met and has to be delayed. Therefore, the following decisions have been taken:
• The CEO Dr. Rainer Schwarz has been relieved of his duties as of today. A new CEO, as well as the newly created position of CFO, is expected to be decided upon in the coming weeks.
• In order to safeguard smooth operations at Berlin-Tegel and Berlin-Schφnefeld, our company is planning considerable investments at both airports. These measures will be discussed in due course with our airline customers at both airports, and we will inform you of any decisions in a timely manner.
• Concerning the opening of the Berlin Brandenburg Airport, a new date is not likely to be set for several months. This is due to further technical analysis, which is still outstanding.
We appreciate the uncertainty this causes for you but we will keep you informed of any major developments.
Best regards,
Dr. Till Bunse Marjan Schoeke (Mr.)
Vice President Marketing & Public Relations Head of Airline Marketing
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Old January 17th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Hmmm, what do you mean "he is jut smoking endo"? It seems like you are heavily criticizing this "expert", possibly because he has no idea what he is talking about, let alone explore the airport area with his own ideas and observe the progress made in it.
I don't know, but I'd just hate for any new infrastructure to be endangered.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 01:34 AM   #797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
I don't know, but I'd just hate for any new infrastructure to be endangered.
Perhaps the German government and the airport developers should have a dialogue and negotiations on how to best develop and construct the airport over time because it seems like the delays are causing concerns for Air Berlin and passengers who routinely use Tegel and Schoenfeld to begin with, especially in terms of when the terminals will be integrated, how much infrastructure still needs to be completed, how many airlines will be able to use the new airport for a soft dry run, etc.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 01:46 PM   #798
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The Berlin Chamber of Commerce (IHK) wants enlargement at the BER,
even before the grand opening has been finalized...

Berliner Wirtschaft fordert schon jetzt den BER-Ausbau

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Old February 3rd, 2013, 07:41 PM   #799
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Terminal Extension

I'm living in Berlin, I'm working in transportations and I'm studying transportation engineering focused on aviation. I've been one of the test passengers as well.

To my point of view the bottleneck of the airport is the landside of the terminal. There are not enough check-In counters and not enough security checkpoints. I don't agree with experts like Faulenbach da Costa that the level of services will be even worse than in TXL. At least the securtity checkpoints are centralized and more flexible in terms of use than they 're in TXL. I'm seeing the bigger problems at the number of check-counters and the number of baggage reclaim belts.
Those are very important as Berlin isn't a large hub, AB is facing the BER-problems and financial problems and Oneworld isn't interested in flying to TXL a long-haul flights. In addition Berlin's image was ruined in the aviation business.

Probably it will be the best idea to expand the landside of the terminal as a first step, expand the existing concourses as second step and to build a new sattelite concourse as the last step.

I really hope to fly to BER as soon as possible. The travelling experience will be much better than in TXL oder SXF because the airport at least looks modern ... and e.g. you can change from train to plane inside of the same building.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Cosmo View Post
This is no surprise, Berlin metro area is larger, the tourism destination is twice as large as Munich.
Regarding tourists that might be right if you compare the two cities. However, Munich airport serves the whole of Southern Bavaria - the largest tourist destination in the country - , too, whereas BER would serve Berlin and some muddy plains around it.
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