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Old January 8th, 2014, 11:54 PM   #941
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But how can it be so much delayed? I mean from the photos, it looks finished, what is that long to change/rebuild/finish/rethink?
It really looks like the whole functional design is a failure then.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 12:46 AM   #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperydog View Post
Why does the main airport have to be where the capital is? Atlanta is one of the busiest airports in the world, and it's nowhere near the most important city in the US. Washington, DC is the capital of the US and it has TWO airports, and both are relatively minor compared to other large airports in the US. Berlin is a nice airport, nothing more. Airlines don't just change their flight patterns because a new airport opens.
While I agree with your overall point you used a bad example in this case.

You are right about Reagan-National (DCA) since that only serves domestic traffic, but Washington-Dulles (IAD) is in addition to being one of United Airlines's main hubs, one of the largest entry points into the US with 22 foreign flag carriers serving that airport and with direct flights to Asia, Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. So Washington-Dulles is hardly minor (keep in mind that 90% of Atlanta's international flights are operated by Delta).
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Old January 11th, 2014, 12:53 AM   #943
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Well, in other countries it may long be operational in this condition, but Germany has very strict building authorities, building law and our famous "DIN" ("german industrial norms").

You know, if they used 1 million of the wrong screws, that don't fullfill quite the norm in strength but would work anyway, building authorities won't just bent the law and say its ok. Instead they will have to change every single one of the screws.

Well and thats all really. I think in October or so there was a list with 70000 or so minor things that were not quite right.
Even when they manage to solve 100 Problems a day it still needs 2 years




But honestly: this desaster can't really been explained. How can such a disorganized chaos even appear in this country that is proud for being famous for accurancy and quality?
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Old January 11th, 2014, 01:22 AM   #944
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Too much incapable (mostly) politicians overseeing the building design and construction process?
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Old January 11th, 2014, 04:03 AM   #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
Too much incapable (mostly) politicians overseeing the building design and construction process?
I think the building wasn't up to code...
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Old January 11th, 2014, 10:46 PM   #946
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Are there any pending lawsuits against the contractors involved in this project or the architects/engineers? If a large construction project (one that costs billions of dollars) in the US was delayed over someone not following building codes, you can pretty much expect lawsuits galore.

Anyways it's too bad the airport itself has not opened yet, as it seems to be a pretty nice facility overall.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 10:51 PM   #947
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Not all "70.000" issues are precluding the airport from opening. This list includes mostly aesthetically/finishing details like a chair that has some badly finished painting on the underside.
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Old January 18th, 2014, 02:39 PM   #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wunderknabe View Post
Well, in other countries it may long be operational in this condition, but Germany has very strict building authorities, building law and our famous "DIN" ("german industrial norms").

But honestly: this desaster can't really been explained. How can such a disorganized chaos even appear in this country that is proud for being famous for accurancy and quality?
+1

I assume 3 main reasons:

1. Way too high standards, to fulfill
2. Too ambitious non working architectural design (fire protection)
3. Bad supervision during construction
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Old January 18th, 2014, 03:11 PM   #949
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...4. and the Airport mangagement carry out the project oneself, without general contractor. 5. Incorect cost calculation in the planning phase. .....6.7. ...
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Old January 19th, 2014, 03:21 PM   #950
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2013 Top3 PAX Germany:

Frankfurt FRA...58,036,948 + 0.9%
Munich MUC.....38,672,600 + 0,8%
Berlin BER.......26,319,155 + 4,2%
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Old January 20th, 2014, 12:56 AM   #951
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I would assume that if Brandenburg were open by now that the numbers would have exceeded 30 million. Air Berlin had an ambitious expansion programme out of Berlin but that was 4 years ago. Combined with the S-Bahn fiasco and the issues with the Hbf, Berlin appears to break the rules when it comes to German organisation.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 12:53 AM   #952
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Not really

Look at Hamburg opera, Stuttgart 21, Frankfurt 21
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Old January 21st, 2014, 02:35 AM   #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Given this there are 32 hub and spokes combinations, here are a few of them:
Beijing–Berlin/Frankfurt–Hamburg
7631 km/8193 km Saving: 562 km

Hong Kong–Berlin/Frankfurt–Hamburg
9344 km/9540 km Saving: 196 km
Due to the fast ICE connection between Berlin and Hamburg (100 minutes from Central Station to Central Station) there are no direct flights between those cities, and I don't think it will change if Berlin would become a hub. It would be more likely that the ICE trains Hamburg - Berlin would end at Berlin Airport to enable a smooth plane/rail transfer. The travel time would be similar.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 02:39 AM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddes View Post
To some extent, Berlin certainly has the potential to surpass Frankfurt. After all, it's a greenfield site and expansion, if required, will likely be easier to execute than Frankfurt which after T3, has pretty much nowhere to go.
Still it took ten years to settle all complaints by nimbys about noise and loss of land value etc. in front of the courts before the actual construction could begin... Although BER is in a much less dense area than FRA.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 02:54 AM   #955
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The growth of air traffic in germany is limited though. Its not like there is much room for another 80+mio pax airport when frankfurt reaches its limits at 80mio pax. So berlin surpassing frankfurt is extremly unlikly.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenkey View Post
Frankfurt 21
what the hell is that? thats just the name of a 20year old vision, that never came into being.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 06:16 AM   #957
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I heard that the necessary (re-) construction work for the Bradenburg Airport will probably take 18 months and has not started yet. I know they hadn't yet made a decision, but I fear that, because of the poor planning, management, and execution of the new airport's construction, would some of the infrastructure of the new Berlin airport need to be torn down and start over? Unless the terminal had some major structural problems, this would probably be a last resort at best, considering the construction budget has been greatly exceeded.

It turns out that the primary cause of the delay in the new airport's opening was the highly complex fire protection and alarm system. It is said that large-scale reconstruction work may be needed in order for the system to pass the acceptance test. Also, there is a problem with the wiring, and some ventilation vents have apparently been placed in inappropriate conditions. And, around 60 km of construction pipes may have been installed without any thermal insulation and to correct this, the demolition of numerous walls (probably interior and a few exterior) may become necessary.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 04:50 AM   #958
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Wow is this happening in Germany, the country known for punctuality?
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Old January 26th, 2014, 08:07 PM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niknak View Post
Wow is this happening in Germany, the country known for punctuality?
See what happens when you stereotype and make generalizations...?
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Old January 26th, 2014, 10:18 PM   #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niknak View Post
Wow is this happening in Germany, the country known for punctuality?

Let me quote Dr. Kaufmann from "James Bond - Tomorrow never dies".

Quote:
"Zis is wery embarrassing. It seems zere is an airport, only zey can't get it finished. They want me to get you to tell how to finish it. I feel like an idiot, I don't know what to say."
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