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Old January 5th, 2017, 01:46 AM   #1141
Леонид
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Damn it is still abandoned and for me it was gonna be one of the most beautiful airports in Europe, I got two words for this project: FAI - LURE ... Im done! boy done!
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Old January 5th, 2017, 03:23 PM   #1142
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No problem. The responsible politicians including their parties are continously ruling, have never lost an election since the ongoing desaster. Just check the regional elections in Berlin and Brandenburg.
They simply changed their communication policy by announcing probable ambitious opening dates instead of fixed ones.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:51 PM   #1143
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BER will open. And it will serve as a vital airport for decades to come.
Of course, its a pain in the ass that the construction AND the approval procedures by authorities don´t finish.
But it will finish.

Most experts, politicians and commentators expect a final decision about the opening date (probably April 2018) in the coming 3 months.

The good news: Because of the growing demand, the airport company is already planning for future expansion. At the end of 2017 the proposal for new terminal capacity and a new airport layout will be presented.

Personally, I expect a roadmap for construction work that includes new passenger capacity of up to 50-60 million a year for the total airport area.
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Last edited by General_FrKr; January 5th, 2017 at 09:58 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 11:02 AM   #1144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General_FrKr View Post
The good news: Because of the growing demand, the airport company is already planning for future expansion. At the end of 2017 the proposal for new terminal capacity and a new airport layout will be presented.
Quite a good excuse for further delays.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 03:21 AM   #1145
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April 2018, feels like tomorrow.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 11:51 AM   #1146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General_FrKr View Post
The good news: Because of the growing demand, the airport company is already planning for future expansion. At the end of 2017 the proposal for new terminal capacity and a new airport layout will be presented.

Personally, I expect a roadmap for construction work that includes new passenger capacity of up to 50-60 million a year for the total airport area.
That is necessary. Meanwhile Tegel will remain open to around 2023/4 while that extra capacity is built.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 12:02 PM   #1147
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Just another "opening date". Pick up from the list:
30 October 2011
03 June 2012
17 March 2013
27 October 2013
Some time in 2015
After 2016
7 October 2016
Some time in 2017 hopefully?
Maybe in 2018 I guess?
What airport I thought we are building a potato processing plant?

Have I mentioned that German engineering has officially become a joke and management and administration is worth of a first place on "corrupt banana republic award" competition? If I did not know the location I would guess the construction is somewhere in Russia...
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Old January 7th, 2017, 05:24 PM   #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max BGF View Post
No problem. The responsible politicians including their parties are continously ruling, have never lost an election since the ongoing desaster. Just check the regional elections in Berlin and Brandenburg.
They simply changed their communication policy by announcing probable ambitious opening dates instead of fixed ones.
Well, it's almost worldvide problem with public projects - politicians announce ridiculously low depences on this or that project, but companies still go on bidding (hoping for renumeration), during the bidding process the price of work becomes even less realistic, then big peoples sign the contract, announcing irrealistic completion date in addition to irrealistic budget - and then, the show begins.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 12:19 AM   #1149
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Latest Data:

TXL+SXF = BER had a passenger growth of 11.4% in 2016
In total 32.9 passengers were numbered at Berlin airports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Meanwhile Tegel will remain open to around 2023/4 while that extra capacity is built.
Highly Unlikely. Not one politician in power is doing lobby work for this idea.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 12:23 AM   #1150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOZIMIERZ View Post
Just another "opening date". Pick up from the list:
30 October 2011
03 June 2012
17 March 2013
27 October 2013
Some time in 2015
After 2016
7 October 2016
Some time in 2017 hopefully?
Maybe in 2018 I guess?
What airport I thought we are building a potato processing plant?

Have I mentioned that German engineering has officially become a joke and management and administration is worth of a first place on "corrupt banana republic award" competition? If I did not know the location I would guess the construction is somewhere in Russia...
Just because the new BER airport is a f*ck up job doesn't mean German engineering is a joke.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 06:17 AM   #1151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demetrios B. View Post
Well, it's almost worldvide problem with public projects - politicians announce ridiculously low depences on this or that project, but companies still go on bidding (hoping for renumeration), during the bidding process the price of work becomes even less realistic, then big peoples sign the contract, announcing irrealistic completion date in addition to irrealistic budget - and then, the show begins.
Most people don't want to pay what's required to get massive public works projects completed. There are cost overruns and engineering failures in private sector projects as well, but the scale of public infrastructure projects are nearly impossible to compare to almost any private sector project. Maybe the private airlines would like to build their own airports? This project is surely messed up, but 1000s of public projects get finished and open so that they rarely get our attention. In my experience, BER is the exception, not the rule.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 09:43 AM   #1152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Just because the new BER airport is a f*ck up job doesn't mean German engineering is a joke.
Stuttgart 21 railway station:
Construction work began on February 2010. It was estimated to cost €2.6bn in 1995 draft plan, €4.5bn in 2009, €6.5bn in 2012
http://www.railway-technology.com/ne...-cost-increase
Now, the cost are estimated 9,5 billions and the opening date in 2023:
http://www.stuttgarter-nachrichten.d...9031d551f.html

Hamburg concert hall:
It was estimated to cost €116million in the 2003 draft plan, €352m by the time the foundation stone was laid in 2007, now € 866 million.
Works are finishing after decade of delays.
https://www.ft.com/content/d59a5164-...1-7393bb2e1b51

U55 U-Bahn line
In the late 1990s, construction began, in 1999 postponed, in 2004 started again.
A first section (only three stations) opened in 2009, bit without connection with the rest of the Berlin subway system. Now the U55 line is isolated.
Works for the missing segment (only 2.2 kilometres), began in April 2010 and were originally expected to be completed by 2017, in November 2015 the opening date was postponed to 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U55_(Berlin_U-Bahn)

Last edited by skydrake; January 9th, 2017 at 02:03 AM.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 02:23 PM   #1153
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Thanks skydrake I did not want to pop the safe space bubble. One can easily find many more examples. Also one can point at emission scandal and wind energy sector cost overruns:
Quote:
Offshore wind farm construction and installation in Germany has seen cost overruns of 20%, a study by the Berlin-based Hertie School of Governance has found.
The figure is low compared with other sectors, the authors write. The researchers analysed the scale, patterns and causes of cost overruns in 170 large public infrastructure projects in Germany and found an average cost overrun of 73%.
http://renews.biz/88997/germany-tack...ore-cost-risk/

Quote:
Three-and-a-half years later, in the fall of 2013, there is a different reality in Frankfurt's Ostend district. Instead of the estimated cost of €850 million ($1.15 billion), the entire project will now cost at least €1.15 billion and could even eventually climb to €1.3 billion. Originally, the costs for the structure were not to exceed €500 million.

The ECB has also had to postpone its move. Originally scheduled for completion in 2011, the building is now not expected to be ready for occupancy until at least the end of 2014
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-930352.html

As for the BER I thought it is a flagship German construction project costing literally billions of euros in the capital city of Germany. It will be (or rather supposed to be) the first thing for all the air travelers to see. And no one was capable of assembling a team of engineers and project managers from all the excellent German professionals to make it work? I wouldn't say a word if there was lets say a year delay because of some regulatory or financing troubles. But it is 6 years late and there is not even a valid final construction permit. It is an airport not a Mars colony!

Believe me it is heartbreaking to loose the last and best engineering and manufacturing powerhouse in Europe. I really did admired it. It is a second such big hit for European economy after the fall of British industry.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 04:59 PM   #1154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOZIMIERZ View Post
^ But it is 6 years late and there is not even a valid final construction permit. It is an airport not a Mars colony!

Believe me it is heartbreaking to loose the last and best engineering and manufacturing powerhouse in Europe. I really did admired it. It is a second such big hit for European economy after the fall of British industry.
Totally agree with your first point, but not the second. Compared to what? The production of plastic Christmas ornaments and cell phones in a south Asian sweat shop?

I completely agree that there are screw ups (in case of BER, a colossal, epic, failure)....but I think it's being overly dramatic to say it represents the loss of European manufacturing and engineering, but maybe you are correct.

I do hope that BER is a lesson learned, like other engineering and manufacturing disasters throughout history.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:22 PM   #1155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
It is still a boondoggle but it seems to have found a niche.

Berlin isn't even running. And no end in sight. People should be in jail for this.
Welcome to modern politics. You try to fight against corrupted and pathetic politicans and they with their media pupets immediately will call you populist.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 08:15 PM   #1156
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Originally Posted by UrbanMyth View Post

I do hope that BER is a lesson learned, like other engineering and manufacturing disasters throughout history.
Yeah...like don't hire Belgians/Dutch to referee a pissing competition between Siemens and Bosch.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 04:35 PM   #1157
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Passenger figures of German airports 2016

FRA: 60,5 Mio (-1,0%)
MUC: 42,3 Mio(+3,1%)
BER=TXL+SXF: 32,9 Mio (+11,9%)
HAM: 16,2 Mio (3,9%)
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Old January 13th, 2017, 06:56 PM   #1158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOZIMIERZ View Post
Thanks skydrake I did not want to pop the safe space bubble. One can easily find many more examples. Also one can point at emission scandal and wind energy sector cost overruns:

http://renews.biz/88997/germany-tack...ore-cost-risk/



http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-930352.html

As for the BER I thought it is a flagship German construction project costing literally billions of euros in the capital city of Germany. It will be (or rather supposed to be) the first thing for all the air travelers to see. And no one was capable of assembling a team of engineers and project managers from all the excellent German professionals to make it work? I wouldn't say a word if there was lets say a year delay because of some regulatory or financing troubles. But it is 6 years late and there is not even a valid final construction permit. It is an airport not a Mars colony!

Believe me it is heartbreaking to loose the last and best engineering and manufacturing powerhouse in Europe. I really did admired it. It is a second such big hit for European economy after the fall of British industry.
Nothing to do with Germany in General - everything to do with red/green politics.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 05:51 PM   #1159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Леонид View Post
Damn it is still abandoned
It's not abandoned...
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Old January 19th, 2017, 04:45 PM   #1160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOZIMIERZ View Post
Have I mentioned that German engineering has officially become a joke and management and administration is worth of a first place on "corrupt banana republic award" competition? If I did not know the location I would guess the construction is somewhere in Russia...
Well... thank you, mate
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