daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Airports and Aviation > Airports

Airports discussions about existing airports



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 14th, 2017, 02:01 PM   #1261
tomasz777
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 672
Likes (Received): 170

Quote:
Originally Posted by skydrake View Post
Lufthansa will not use BER as a hub because it is too small. Neither Air Berlin (acquired by Lufthansa):

https://www.br.de/nachrichten/luftha...z-aus-100.html
https://www.welt.de/regionales/berli...Drehkreuz.html
That means that Berlin is becoming the only capital in Europe with no hub of legacy airline
Of course except a few small countries like Slovakia, Montenegro etc.
tomasz777 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 15th, 2017, 10:51 AM   #1262
Max BGF
Alphaist
 
Max BGF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,449
Likes (Received): 15083

Berlin is just the town without a significant or powerwul metro. Moreover situated in the Northeast. No one from the densely populated southwestern areas wants to firstly fly toward North and/or East to get a reverse direction flight. Thus Berlin will remain important as origin or destination airport, not as a hub. Maybe Berlin would be ok as a hub for flights to Helsinki.
__________________
Etwas ist nicht recht, weil es Gesetz ist, sondern es muß Gesetz sein, weil es recht ist. (Montesquieu)

Manolo_B2 liked this post
Max BGF no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2017, 01:39 PM   #1263
Singidunum
Grad Oblakodera
 
Singidunum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Beograd
Posts: 35,547
Likes (Received): 16177

How about flights to Asia?
__________________
Like Skyscrapercity Serbian Forum on Facebook

Potpišite peticiju protiv rušenja Generalštaba!
Singidunum no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2017, 02:28 PM   #1264
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

For short routes to East Asia you would want airports far to the North and to the East. Berlin scores fairly well on both. The great circle distance to Beijing Capital Airport to select EEA cities are, in km (and % of Berlin):

Tromsø: 6156 (84%)
Helsinki: 6308 (86%)
Stockholm: 6691 (91%)
Warsaw: 6948 (95%)
Berlin: 7357 (100%)
Vienna: 7452 (101%)
Athens: 7607 (103%)
Amsterdam: 7827 (106%)
Reykjavik: 7902 (107%)
Rome: 8148 (111%)
London: 8153 (111%)
Paris: 8189 (111%)
Madrid: 9205 (125%)

For two European cities outside EEA:
Moscow: 5786 (79%)
Istanbul: 7072 (96%)
__________________

Max BGF liked this post
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #1265
Max BGF
Alphaist
 
Max BGF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,449
Likes (Received): 15083

Still too little gain compared to Germanys big players Frankfurt and Munich. And not to forget Hamburg in the North. Guess their values around 102%-104%.
__________________
Etwas ist nicht recht, weil es Gesetz ist, sondern es muß Gesetz sein, weil es recht ist. (Montesquieu)
Max BGF no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #1266
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Yes, more than the relatively small distances in Europe and in China, it is the travel through Russia/Central Asia that really adds up the distance. It's 7788 km for Frankfurt and 7722 km for Munich btw. (Seoul and most Northern Chinese cities should give about the same ranking as Beijing, while Hong Kong has no Northern advantage, Tokyo has more of it.)

While the differences are too small to be a game changer, companies would be unlikely to move to Berlin just to be a little closer to East Asia, but they are noticeable. Relative to Berlin it should take roughly one less hour for Helsinki, one more hour for London or Paris, two more hours to Madrid. If you fly from Helsinki, you get a "There already?" feeling, while flights from London take forever. Real life flight paths don't exactly follow a great circle, but they stay close. Checked for fastest flights to Beijing for three cities, the ones i found were Helsinki: 7:40, Berlin: 9:15, London: 10:05. Return flights are an hour or so longer, going against instead of with the jet stream.

Another significant cost is fuel. The optimum range for an aircraft is somewhere in the middle of maximum range. Shorter journeys are less fuel-efficient, less cruising, but close to maximum range you are essentially shipping the fuel you need to get there. I guess a flight to London would spend 20% more fuel, but that would depend on the plane.

It's even more favourable for Berlin in a hub-and-spokes model than direct flights. Routes with Berlin as a hub are more likely to be on a great circle straight line. However hub-and-spoke is getting increasingly unfashionable, and a hub would much more likely be in a hubby location like Amsterdam or Munich anyway.

Completely off-topic, but if hub-and-spokes ever were to return, based on geography alone Iceland would be in a good location. It would be a Trans-Atlantic Dubai close to East Asia and very close to North America, and midpoint on many US-Indian flights.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2017, 11:06 PM   #1267
General_FrKr
Arsch mit Ohren
 
General_FrKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,775
Likes (Received): 2790

Several important news:

Berlin TXL airport will most likely close. Even though a referendum in the city state Berlin had a different outcome. Reason: The BER co-owner Brandenburg (a German state that is neighboring Berlin) vetoed a TXL-opening. BER will be the single future airport.

After the collapse of Air Berlin which operated almost 30 % of all flights to Berlin new airlines will take over. Most of Air Berlin slots will be operated by Eurowings (Lufthansa) and easy jet. The Bad news: The year 2018 won´t see a total compensation of the AB collapse. The passenger figures of combined TXL / SXF will be negative.

Today the Berlin-Brandenburg airport company has presented 20 year masterplan for new constructions. BER is going to be enlarged in order to manage up to 55 Million passengers a year.

Masterplan vorgestellt
So soll der BER doch noch zum Großflughafen ausgebaut werden

__________________

renco, Dasf Sturm, webeagle12, GEwinnen liked this post

Last edited by General_FrKr; November 21st, 2017 at 11:12 PM.
General_FrKr no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2017, 06:30 AM   #1268
webeagle12
Registered User
 
webeagle12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Albany
Posts: 1,744
Likes (Received): 450

bahhhahhahhaHh



Germany’s reputation for punctuality has taken a hit as local media report yet another delay to the opening of the Berlin Brandenburg Airport.

Originally scheduled for 2011, Der Tagesspiel newspaper says the latest talk is of mid- to late-2020. It’s the seventh time the opening has been postponed since the project began in 2006.

The airport is jointly owned by the city of Berlin, the state of Brandenburg and Germany’s federal government.

The delays have already inflated the budget by billions of euros and continue to cost the German taxpayer around one million euros a day.

The latest setback is reportedly due to problems with fire protection. Other errors over the years include badly installed cables, escalators that were too short and a roof that was too heavy.

Corruption is also a factor – last year one former airport employee was sentenced to prison for taking bribes and dozens of others have been fined.

Collateral damage includes construction companies, retail outlets and taxi firms forced into bankruptcy and one former Berlin mayor forced out of his job.

The new facility is expected to service some 34 million passengers a year and will replace the German capital’s ageing Tegel airport. Assuming, of course, it ever gets off the ground.

http://www.euronews.com/2017/11/23/b...ces-new-delays
__________________

KOZIMIERZ, Max BGF, Kleist D liked this post
webeagle12 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #1269
skydrake
Registered User
 
skydrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 662
Likes (Received): 164

The opening date of 2019 has been described as ambitious in several newspapers:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soz...a-1180032.html
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/fl.../20595198.html
http://www.bild.de/regional/berlin/f...5660.bild.html

A TÜV report, just published, has listed additional deficits. It is possible that the new deficits will cause an additional delay of up to two years, with an opening in 2021:
http://www.bild.de/regional/berlin/f...8864.bild.html
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-15306219.html
https://www.morgenpost.de/flughafen-...erst-2021.html
skydrake no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2017, 04:01 PM   #1270
KOZIMIERZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 548
Likes (Received): 376

If Germans wanted to beat the longest delay in airport construction record they should have said so in the beginning. I have to admit 10 years is quite an achievement.
__________________
Pierwsze prawo Kozimierza: Prawdopodobieństwo zrealizowania projektu jest odwrotnie proporcjonalne do kwadratu liczby zaangażowanych jednostek budżetowych.
KOZIMIERZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2017, 04:17 PM   #1271
webeagle12
Registered User
 
webeagle12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Albany
Posts: 1,744
Likes (Received): 450

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOZIMIERZ View Post
If Germans wanted to beat the longest delay in airport construction record they should have said so in the beginning. I have to admit 10 years is quite an achievement.
Demolish the terminal and start over again. Would be cheaper long time ago
__________________

Kot Bazilio liked this post
webeagle12 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #1272
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,956
Likes (Received): 2208

Quote:
Originally Posted by skydrake View Post
The opening date of 2019 has been described as ambitious in several newspapers:
In 2019 20m passengers will use the Schoenefeld slum located NE of the new Terminal. It will be 'open' for Easyjet and Ryanair and Wizz anyway.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2017, 07:23 PM   #1273
Bender
Rugged Individualist
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Düsseldorf, Le Reich
Posts: 3,101
Likes (Received): 118

Quote:
Originally Posted by webeagle12 View Post
Demolish the terminal and start over again. Would be cheaper long time ago
Nobody likes sunk costs.
Bender no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2018, 03:35 PM   #1274
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

The competition is heating up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
January 18, 2018
Beijing new airport to test run in Oct 2019
Xinhua Excerpt

Beijing's new international airport will start test operation in October 2019, local officials said.

Engineering projects will be finished in July 2019 and the test operation will start three months later, said contractor Beijing Construction Engineering Group.

The airport, located 46 km south of downtown Beijing, is designed to take pressure off the overcrowded Beijing Capital International Airport located in the northeastern suburbs. It is located on the border between Daxing district and Langfang, a city in Hebei province.

"Daxing district will prioritize the construction of the airport and the airport economic zone," said Wang Youguo, acting head of the district government.

Airport terminal buildings, covering an area of 313,000 square meters, will consist of a centerpiece and five arms resembling a phoenix spreading out its wings.

It will have four runways and accommodate 620,000 flights per year. It will be able to handle up to 100 million passengers and 4 million tons of cargo each year in the long run.
__________________

Cani, KOZIMIERZ liked this post
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2018, 06:16 PM   #1275
General_FrKr
Arsch mit Ohren
 
General_FrKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,775
Likes (Received): 2790

The new opening date for BER is now 2020 .....
(if all repair works out as planned)


BER 2018

__________________

:jax: liked this post
General_FrKr no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
airport, berlin, european hub airport

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium