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Old August 19th, 2010, 09:23 PM   #141
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I guess you meant SIN-EWR (SIN-JFK is routed via FRA), and it's an all-business class flight. If you ever see a nonstop flight between Europe and Australia it will be SYD-LHR, also with business class only. Stops in asia, especially SIN, BKK and HKG, will always play an important role on the Kangaroo route.
There are much shorter routes, that already see nonstop flights, were intermediate points still play an important role. I.e. US-India: European Airports, especially FRA, still get a large piece of the cake.
So, even if the B787 could do SYD-LHR nonstop, QF would still keep their SYD/MEL-SIN/BKK/HKG-LHR/FRA flights and upgrade all of them to A388.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #142
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Yes, SIN - EWR.

Definitely, QF will turn their SYD/MEL-SIN/BKK/HKG - LHR/FRA flights into all A380 ones.

That was what Qantas was hoping to achieve, an all-business B787 SYD - LHR flight

If B787 had the year-round SYD - LHR range, there would be just a couple more European destinations for the Qantas nonstop all-business B787 flights to SYD, without the bilateral restrictions.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 04:30 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
I NEVER dispute the fact that Berlin needs the new BBI, but instead debunk any myth that Berlin will be the new LHR, FRA, CDG, AMS or even the new MUC.
I don't think anyone said that - so where is this coming from? never mind, still amusing to read your posts.

I agree that Berlin (and Berliners) have a slight inferiority complex when it comes to the city's current standing & dire economic credentials etc. (and understandably so) - BER is now seen as a catalyst to economic growth, a 'beacon of hope' so to speak. But to compare Berlin with Washington DC, or claim that Hamburg or Munich "are right up there" when it comes to them being a tourist or cultural hub is plain nonense. They ARE important (no doubt) - and thankfully Germany is a federal state that doesn't combine EVERYTHING in its capital like in the UK or France - but Berlin IS a much bigger tourist destination and has a far bigger & more diverse cultural scene than Hamburg or Munich. ... in order not to appear too pre-opinionated against Berlin, I suggest you do give the city some credit where it deserves some (although it's probably the only area where Berlin currently 'shines').

Anyway, I think we can all agree that Berlin IS different. And whilst it won't ever compete with FRA or MUC for business travellers / premium passengers, I do believe that generally BER has a promising future ahead of itself in terms of passenger growth generally - mainly based on

1) ever-growing tourist numbers,
2) the focus on LCC carriers (such as AB and its intent to invest heavily into BER), and
3) the availability of plenty of space (i.e. slots, terminal capacity) in an increasingly congested European market, and this will be a major consideration for many airlines also.

People might disagree - and that's fine - but in the long run, I think BER can narrow the gap (in terms of PAX numbers) to currently bigger airports such as Munich, Zurich or Vienna. Obviously, it won't have the big, established airlines flying in and out multiple times a day in A380s full of premium passengers (which is typically what people like to talk, report and boast about - or even write essay-type stats about). That's up to the LHRs, FRAs, AMSs and CDGs of this world. But unless these can keep growing at a fast pace, secondary airports will eat into their market share - no doubt about that.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:02 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
But to compare Berlin with Washington DC, or claim that Hamburg or Munich "are right up there" when it comes to them being a tourist or cultural hub is plain nonsense...

but Berlin IS a much bigger tourist destination and has a far bigger & more diverse cultural scene than Hamburg or Munich. ... in order not to appear too pre-opinionated against Berlin, I suggest you do give the city some credit where it deserves some (although it's probably the only area where Berlin currently 'shines').

...

People might disagree - and that's fine - but in the long run, I think BER can narrow the gap (in terms of PAX numbers) to currently bigger airports such as Munich, Zurich or Vienna. Obviously, it won't have the big, established airlines flying in and out multiple times a day in A380s full of premium passengers (which is typically what people like to talk, report and boast about - or even write essay-type stats about). That's up to the LHRs, FRAs, AMSs and CDGs of this world. But unless these can keep growing at a fast pace, secondary airports will eat into their market share - no doubt about that.


I do give Berlin the credits it deserves, but I cannot stand the Berlin ego and illusions. My previous posts have answered the rhetorical "coming from where" question. As both you and I know very well, everything in Germany is spread out all over. That means Berlin is not really bigger and more diverse than other major German cities. The stars do not really shine brighter above Berlin in Germany. Of course, Berlin is "different." So are Hamburg, Frankfurt, Munich and even Cologne.

It is actually flattering to compare Berlin with Washington, DC. I guess you do not know Washington, DC at all. Washington, DC has lots of culture, government businesses, thriving tourism industry, commercial activities, convention businesses, etc. The DC metro area actually needs THREE airports.

Berliners and Berlin lovers cannot stand the fact that Munich is competing neck-to-neck with Berlin in cultural and tourism businesses. Of course, it is too painful for Berliners and Berlin lovers to acknowledge that numbers of tourists visiting Munich are "ever-growing" too. In terms of culture, the world´s most high profile book fair is held in Frankfurt. Frankfurt Opera has at least equal if not greater international standing the three Berlin opera houses enjoy. In terms of entertainment, Hamburg is the current musical capital of Germany. Do not forget about the Hamburg Philharmonic and the Hamburg Philharmonic Hall, the German Sydney Opera House. There are two film capitals in Germany: Berlin and Munich. Cologne is competing with Berlin head to head in terms of TV productions.

It is "amusing" to see people actually take the Qantas PR spin concerning BBI seriously or even find it hopeful. How come there is NO dedicated thread to celebrate the reinvention of CGN as a low-cost hub? By the way, the reason that MUC is built where it is now is "the availability of plenty of space." The new BBI is not some "beacon of hope." It is just a proper and long over-due solution to the current dismal aviation infrastructure in Berlin, nothing more, nothing less. It is amazing indeed that so many people get so carried away by the construction of BBI.

"People like to talk, report and boast about - or even write essay-type stats about" "sexy" gateway airports because airport operators and regions benefit the most from such airport operations. Gateway airports and multiple same-city airports in real global mega cities will enjoy continuous high and even explosive growth rates. Watch out for the explosive growth rate Tokyo Haneda is going to experience in the years to come. The funny thing is that the beneficiaries of FRA´s growing pain are CGN, MUC, Deutsche Bahn and even ZRH.

At the end of the day, people still love French, Belgian and Swiss chocolates the most.

Last edited by aab7772003; August 24th, 2010 at 06:40 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 01:57 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
At the end of the day, people still love French, Belgian and Swiss chocolates the most.
I agree with THAT!! (I love Lindt the most)
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Old August 24th, 2010, 07:48 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
Which is NOT true. Hamburg, Vienna and Munich are up there with Berlin in this regard, as a matter of fact. Many Germans love to fantasize that Berlin is the "German" Paris and London or New York, which is so far from the truth. It is one thing to be very proud of the capital, but it is another thing to pretend that the capital is the epicenter of the German-speaking world and even to trick yourself into thinking that the capital is some kind of intercontinental cross road.

Berlin today is more like Washington, DC.

I NEVER dispute the fact that Berlin needs the new BBI, but instead debunk any myth that Berlin will be the new LHR, FRA, CDG, AMS or even the new MUC.
Berlin is definately the cultural and tourist centre of Germany. Munich is up there too, but Berlin still leads.

I have lived in both cities, and from my experience, Berlin is the better of the 2, in those regards anyway.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 11:38 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
@Tyron

On the website of Berlin airports it sounds like this:
"The security checking facilities at the new Berlin Brandenburg International Airport BBI are being modified to comply with the new European Union regulations which come into effect on April 2013. The planners have redesigned the terminal to include 32 security lines in a modified configuration, as well as two pavilions on the left and right of the terminal building."
impressive!
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Old August 24th, 2010, 05:02 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melb_aviator View Post
Berlin is definately the cultural and tourist centre of Germany. Munich is up there too, but Berlin still leads.

I have lived in both cities, and from my experience, Berlin is the better of the 2, in those regards anyway.
Berlin is definitely "A" cultural and tourist center of Germany. The margin between Berlin and Munich is not going to grow wider.

You have YOUR experience, perceptions and opinions. I have met many Germans who just rave nonstop about the museums, galleries and cultural institutes in Berlin while dismissing Munich as some kind of kitschy Bavarian village with only Oktoberfest to show to the world. If you listen to such people, you will think that world-class museums, galleries and cultural institutes do not exist in Munich at all.

Again, Germany is a DEcentralized country. Berlin is the capital but will never be the city. The sun certainly does not shine brighter above Berlin.

Last edited by aab7772003; August 24th, 2010 at 07:18 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 06:30 PM   #149
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The girls are in Berlin more beautiful than in Munich or in Frankfurt, and of course my d... is the biggest one!!!

Could we stop this "bigger, better, higher discussion" and come back to the topic? I would be pleased about.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 06:46 PM   #150
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The girls are in Berlin more beautiful than in Munich or in Frankfurt, and of course my d... is the biggest one!!!

Could we stop this "bigger, better, higher discussion" and come back to the topic? I would be pleased about.
The first claim in just pure nonsense.

Again, it is perfectly alright to celebrate the developments of BBI. Let us just stick to the topic, which is the CONSTRUCTION of BBI. It is getting so tiresome to read suggestions of, speculations on and dreams of BBI
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Old August 25th, 2010, 10:12 PM   #151
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The construction of new car parking buildings and a car rental centre is planned by HennArchitekten
On there website it sounds like this:

Quote:
The project to expand Berlin’s existing Schönefeld Airport into Berlin Brandenburg International also includes construction of five new car parking buildings for more than 10,000 vehicles close to the terminal. Airport car parks are only used on an irregular basis by many visitors, and it may often be several days before parked cars are collected again. This is why a clear layout both in and outside the buildings is so important, and it can only be achieved with a smooth interplay between urban design, architecture and signage. The new parking buildings fit into the clear, symmetrical order of the airport complex as a whole and continue its overall design concept. The construction programme is divided into three car parks, a car rental centre and a car park in close vicinty to the terminal.
And some renderings from their website:












Architects website: http://www.henn.com/#en/alle/7079
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Old August 25th, 2010, 10:49 PM   #152
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Following the link you will find two renderings and some informations (in German and English) about an office center next to the terminal at the airport city which will be developed by Fay Projects.

Quoting from their website:
Quote:
Airport City, the service center on the airport grounds, is arising at an exclusive location directly in front of the central terminal. It also includes our new office center with excellent connections. The main airport terminal and its integrated ICE and commuter train station are only 150 meters away. The goal is to develop a building that fits harmoniously into the surroundings and makes a lasting impression by means of a high-class representative office with modern, sophisticated and functional architecture. The new office building thus becomes a central component of Airport City, which represents the vibrant heart of the new Capital Airport.
Link:
http://www.fay.de/index.php?id=2184&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=515&tx_ttnews[backPid]=1918&cHash=5b2d61195e

Thanks to user Miau are here the renderings visible in appropriate size.


[IMG]http://i36.************/10p4prk.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i35.************/30tosgk.jpg[/IMG]
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Last edited by way of thinking; August 26th, 2010 at 02:07 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 05:48 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
The construction of new car parking buildings and a car rental centre is planned by HennArchitekten
On there website it sounds like this:
And some renderings from their website:
it's rather fresh! I suppose, BBI has unique and recognizable architectural style, kinda reflection of the identity of a "German style"
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Old September 3rd, 2010, 11:09 PM   #154
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View on BBI-marketplace inside the terminal (photo by Marion Schmieding / Alexander Obst, 22.06.2010, from Berlin Airports website)


http://www.berlin-airport.de/images/...Juni2010_2.jpg

Last edited by way of thinking; September 3rd, 2010 at 11:14 PM.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 12:02 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tem_3 View Post
it's rather fresh! I suppose, BBI has unique and recognizable architectural style, kinda reflection of the identity of a "German style"
exactly. BER is going to be a great airport. and with 23 million passengers, or so, at the day of the opening, it will be quiet a significant airport in europe, no matter how much of a hub it is going to be or not. the monumental crisp design of BER makes older airports like FRA look like a dump. mind you, I prefer a dump with a record number of connections around the world to a brand new airport with considerably less connections, but I'm still envious that BER is going to have one of the most state of the art airports in the world.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 09:36 AM   #156
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Investor Harder & Partner builds maintenance hangar at BBI of 12.000 square meters

Quote:
... Two-thirds of the hangar will be used by Air Berlin, the remaining third by Germania. Located to the west of BBI, the maintenance hangar will provide space for at least six Airbus A319s/A320s or two A330s. An additional 5,000 m2 of office, storage and workshop space is also being created and let to the two airlines. Ownership of the 26,600 m2 property will be transferred to Harder & Partner in November 2010. The hangar will be completed in time for the opening of BBI on 3 June 2012. “By investing in BBI, Harder & Partner is making a key contribution to the location’s development. Building a maintenance hangar will support the flight operations of Air Berlin and Germania as well as significantly help Air Berlin to fulfil its role as a hub at BBI”, said Dr. Manfred A. Körtgen, COO of Berlin Airports.

“The new technical hangar will offer sufficient space for us to maintain not only our short and medium-haul aircraft, but also our long-haul fleet at Berlin”, said Christoph Debus, Chief Commercial Officer at Air Berlin. “In this respect, BBI is now providing the perfect conditions, also in terms of maintenance, for expanding our Berlin hub.”

“This step underlines Germania’s clear commitment to Berlin as a location and its new Capital Airport”, confirmed CEO Axel Trampnau. “We look forward to doing business with the airport, Harder & Partner and Air Berlin.”
source: http://www.berlin-airport.de/EN/Pres...ngshangar.html
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Old September 5th, 2010, 03:33 AM   #157
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Menschen wurden kritisiert, wie hässlich dieses Flughafens aussehen wird, haben sie noch nicht einmal fertig ist doch so mit der negativen Einstellung zu stoppen!
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Old September 5th, 2010, 10:13 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
Following the link you will find two renderings and some informations (in German and English) about an office center next to the terminal at the airport city which will be developed by Fay Projects.
Soooo Berlin style!! I like it a lot! Terminal will be looking also stylish and fresh!
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Old September 6th, 2010, 06:58 PM   #159
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@ Berlin bashing

Thats very popular in Germany to numerate all negative things about Berlin and to denigrate new projects and developments. just ignore it, they´re just jealous how fast that city changed in the past.
every berlin bashing discussion contains the words "ego, hype, wishfull thinking"..used as killer argument
nobody expects berlin to be like paris or new york
btw
on weekend i saw a funny painting with that phrase: berlin is the ***** of all cities : D
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Old September 6th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by HelloMoto163 View Post
@ Berlin bashing

Thats very popular in Germany to numerate all negative things about Berlin and to denigrate new projects and developments. just ignore it, they´re just jealous how fast that city changed in the past.
every berlin bashing discussion contains the words "ego, hype, wishfull thinking"..used as killer argument
nobody expects berlin to be like paris or new york
btw
on weekend i saw a funny painting with that phrase: berlin is the ***** of all cities : D
In fact, it is more like non-Berlin fans are sooo underwhelmed by the so-called progress Berlin has made and Berlin fans saying how well they realize Berlin is not the center of the universe yet finding every possible way to suggest that the city as one of those alpha global metropolis nonstop. It is NOT like other major wealthy German cities are at all envious of the situation Berlin is in, since they are actually preoccupied with their own major expansions. Germany is not a centralized country after all; other German cities are much more interested in benchmarking themselves with other cities overseas. Germans all over Germany actually expect to see "progress" in Berlin since they have paid so much money to finance the "progress."

Last edited by aab7772003; September 7th, 2010 at 06:58 PM.
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