Future Surface Combatant (C1,C2,C3)

madjackmcmad · February 14th, 2009, 02:06 AM

Though i'd start a thread about the ships that will eventually replace our current Type22 & 23 Frigates as I couldn't find one.

Some news yesterday on this project - Concept phase has been awarded to BVT Surface Fleet.
http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=8564

Quote:

BVT prepares to take the lead in FSC
Friday, February 13, 2009
The Royal Navy has taken the first major step towards developing the next generation of warships for the fleet after it came to an agreement with BVT Surface Fleet to assist in the development phase.

The joint maritime venture between BAE Systems and VT Group, which holds a monopoly over nearly all major naval projects, will work with the Navy to develop a concept for the Future Surface Combatant (FSC).

BVT will lead the design and production of the FSCs, taking over responsibilities from the Naval Design Partnership.

The maritime manufacturing giant will also work with the Surface Combatants Directorate in Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) to jointly develop the costed assessment phase, the preparation of a joint cost model for the whole life of the programme and analysis of the supply chain and other factors.

Rear Admiral Bob Love, director general Ships for the DE&S, called the agreement a "hugely exciting day for the Royal Navy": "This is a significant moment in the life of FSC as we press forward in developing a world class escort for the future."

BVT officials were pleased by the latest contract victory. Chief executive Alan Johnston said that the contract award would allow BAE to retain vital shipbuilding skills.

The FSC is to be the next generation of surface warship, and is due to begin delivering the 26 ships into service by the middle of next decade. The ships were originally scheduled to replace the Type 23 frigates, but due to massive budget cuts and the dramatic reduction of the Navy's fleet, the programme is now set to perform a number of functions. The ships will replace the Type 22s as well.

The three main categories for the FSC are:

C1 - Force Anti-Submarine Warfare Combatant (formerly Versatile Surface Combatant)- around ten large vessels for high-threat environments.

C2 - Stabilisation Combatant (formerly Medium Sized Vessel Derivative) - around eight cheaper vessels

C3 - Ocean-Capable Patrol Vessel - around eight smaller ships to replace minesweepers and possibly current patrol ships.

The programme came under some criticism after it was revealed that the project was in effect replacing two additional orders of Type 45 Destroyers.

However with cuts and delays to nearly every major naval project, the FSC will most likely be reduced in size before the last orders are finalized.

*Sigh* at the last sentence but in all reality probably justified.

Manchester Planner · February 14th, 2009, 02:53 AM

I highly doubt there will be ten C1 frigates and eight C2 frigates. The C1 will be a beast (we're talking 7 or 8 thousand tonnes) and about as expensive as a Type 45, so I suspect six of them is more likely in the end (and like the Type 45 the numbers will come down over the years from ten to eight to six). The C2 will be a generic frigate (about 4 or 5 thousand tonnes) - I would say there will either be eight if its cheap, but only six if they end up being expensive (which they will). So six C1s and six C2s is my estimate in this department!

The eight C3 corvettes sounds likely though, as they will be replacing a number (i.e. a far greater number than eight!) of existing vessels across various classes. In fact, there could well be more than eight, if this class of ship has to replace the River class OPVs as well, later in the 2020s. The C3 will also be nice and cheap, which will please the pen-pushers at Her Majesty's Treasury.

But the C3s won't be escorts, like frigates or destroyers. So the Royal Navy will end up having 6 Type 45 destroyers, 6 C1 frigates and 6 C2 frigates... 18 escorts in total. Which is pathetic considering that in 2002 we had 32. The new ships may be better ship-per-ship, but you can't have the same hull in two locations. So I hope that my pessimistic numbers for the C1s and C2s are wrong and we have at least 2 more, to finish with 20 escorts at least.

Manchester Planner · February 14th, 2009, 03:12 AM

Some possible concepts for the three different classes -

C1 - essentially a reconfigured Type 45, with anti-submarine and anti-ship warfare rather than anti-aircraft defence... about 7,000 tonnes

C2 - general purpose frigate (potentially these could be cheaper versions of the C1, with less equipment and such fitted)... about 4,500 tonnes

C3 - 3,000 tonne or there abouts ocean-going patrol vessel... a corvette in proper naval terms

Vanguard · February 14th, 2009, 03:37 PM

C1 should be cheaper than the Type 45s, Planner, on account of not having the SAMPSON radar suite. Shouldn't cost much to stretch 'em a bit.

My thinking anyway.

Newcastle Guy · February 14th, 2009, 04:04 PM

Weird, I was just reading about these on Wiki last night, wondering 'when will we get some news about them?'

Manchester Planner · February 14th, 2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanguard

C1 should be cheaper than the Type 45s, Planner, on account of not having the SAMPSON radar suite. Shouldn't cost much to stretch 'em a bit.

My thinking anyway.

Possibly, but the C1 class will still be rather expensive ships!

TallBox · February 14th, 2009, 10:41 PM

This was my idea:

Manchester Planner · February 15th, 2009, 04:31 AM

I would love that to be the case. Fingers crossed!

February 14th, 2009, 02:53 AM	#2
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,130	I highly doubt there will be ten C1 frigates and eight C2 frigates. The C1 will be a beast (we're talking 7 or 8 thousand tonnes) and about as expensive as a Type 45, so I suspect six of them is more likely in the end (and like the Type 45 the numbers will come down over the years from ten to eight to six). The C2 will be a generic frigate (about 4 or 5 thousand tonnes) - I would say there will either be eight if its cheap, but only six if they end up being expensive (which they will). So six C1s and six C2s is my estimate in this department! The eight C3 corvettes sounds likely though, as they will be replacing a number (i.e. a far greater number than eight!) of existing vessels across various classes. In fact, there could well be more than eight, if this class of ship has to replace the River class OPVs as well, later in the 2020s. The C3 will also be nice and cheap, which will please the pen-pushers at Her Majesty's Treasury. But the C3s won't be escorts, like frigates or destroyers. So the Royal Navy will end up having 6 Type 45 destroyers, 6 C1 frigates and 6 C2 frigates... 18 escorts in total. Which is pathetic considering that in 2002 we had 32. The new ships may be better ship-per-ship, but you can't have the same hull in two locations. So I hope that my pessimistic numbers for the C1s and C2s are wrong and we have at least 2 more, to finish with 20 escorts at least. Last edited by Manchester Planner; February 14th, 2009 at 03:00 AM.

February 14th, 2009, 03:37 PM	#4
Vanguard Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 561	C1 should be cheaper than the Type 45s, Planner, on account of not having the SAMPSON radar suite. Shouldn't cost much to stretch 'em a bit. My thinking anyway. __________________ "The smarter the journalists are, the better off society is. For to a degree, people read the press to inform themselves-and the better the teacher, the better the student body." - Warren Buffett

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February 14th, 2009, 03:12 AM	#3
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,130	Some possible concepts for the three different classes - C1 - essentially a reconfigured Type 45, with anti-submarine and anti-ship warfare rather than anti-aircraft defence... about 7,000 tonnes C2 - general purpose frigate (potentially these could be cheaper versions of the C1, with less equipment and such fitted)... about 4,500 tonnes C3 - 3,000 tonne or there abouts ocean-going patrol vessel... a corvette in proper naval terms

February 14th, 2009, 04:04 PM	#5
Newcastle Guy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Portsmouth Posts: 7,773	Weird, I was just reading about these on Wiki last night, wondering 'when will we get some news about them?'

February 14th, 2009, 10:41 PM	#7
TallBox Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,211	This was my idea:

February 15th, 2009, 04:31 AM	#8
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,130	I would love that to be the case. Fingers crossed!