Leeds City Region Politics

[Leeds No.1]

They all say its changed to varying extents. The words 'change' and 'same' don't go together.

[rhinomatt]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

They all say its changed to varying extents. The words 'change' and 'same' don't go together.

You know what they are saying! I for one know your not stupid even if I disagree with your views!

[Leeds No.1]

Yes but I also know that the majority of those quotes have been extracted from speeches or dialogues that are in favour of the treaty. It's obvious that this is the case because the large majority of those people wanted the Constitution and now back Lisbon.

[rhinomatt]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

Yes but I also know that the majority of those quotes have been extracted from speeches or dialogues that are in favour of the treaty. It's obvious that this is the case because the large majority of those people wanted the Constitution and now back Lisbon.

I recognise this... They were all supportive of both. In the quotes they where recognising that the name change/change of the wording of the constitution did not matter to them as it was essentially the same and they were still happy with it. that's why I said:

Originally Posted by rhinomatt

all of the following people helped to shape and support both the constitution and treaty and this is what they have said....

But while I disagree with the constitution my argument was never to tell you why. It was to explain why the Labour Party and Lib Dems where wrong to vote the Treaty through parliament and to show that they did not for fill their jobs by giving the British people a referendum (as promised in all but the name of a document in a manifesto) rather hiding behind a simple bit of cosmetic surgery.

[di Livio]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

The words 'change' and 'same' don't go together.

They do in the current Conservative Party.

[rhinomatt]

Originally Posted by di Livio

They do in the current Conservative Party.

conservative and Conservative are two very different words.

[di Livio]

Originally Posted by rhinomatt

conservative and Conservative are two very different words.

They're exactly the same word, except for the majuscule.

[rhinomatt]

Originally Posted by di Livio

They're exactly the same word, except for the majuscule.

you can be conservative and not Conservative.
The Conservative Party as the Tories before them have been the party of progressive change since its start..

[Leeds No.1]

The only change the Conservatives want is to change back all the things Labour have done. How is abolishing the RDAs progress, for example.

If you want an example of how backward they are then just look at Boris Johnson and how much he is ruining that city.

[di Livio]

Originally Posted by rhinomatt

you can be conservative and not Conservative.

Yes. And?

The Conservative Party as the Tories before them have been the party of progressive change since its start.

(VIDEO: Give it a few seconds to warm up)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpc5_3B5xdk

[Metrolink VI]

I'm loving the idea that the average Joe on the street is going to notice the slightest difference to their quality of life just because the Lisbon treaty has or has not been signed.

Fuck me, talk about being isolated from what really matters to normal people. The non-effect of Lisbon happening or not really ain't going to affect the people of Leeds half as much as a whole host of more important policies from education, through health to policing.

Fact is (in my opinion) our crappy electoral system means the parties that can possibly win power have to get the votes of a certain part of 'middle England'. Daily Mail readers. The issues that matter to the majority of the population of Leeds are not imprtant to David Cameron, Nick Clegg or Gordon Brown, they really are not.

Rhino's post smack of a teenie bopper who has found a new heart throb, in a decades time you will be so embaressed of the posts you have made prior to a Tory victory (disaster in my view).

Anyway, move away from thinking every policy from any party is perfect, move on, realise what party politics really is all about, it certainly ain't about doing what is best for Leeds.

So, to leave, Rhino, a challenge, to be taken seriously as a Tory supporter with your own mind I trust you can give at least three policies that the Tories will implement that will do Leeds harm compared to Labour. After all, no one, not even the most loyal MP agrees with EVERY policy. So, which are the THREE policies that the Tories will implement will do Northern cities, like Leeds, more harm than a Labour government would do?

Failure to name three suggests you have no brain of your own.

[heatonparkincakes]

Love it.

"The Conservative Party as the Tories before them have been the party of progressive change since its start.."

Depends on what you mean by "progressive change."

In deed the only the thing permanent is change.......................

[Metrolink VI]

progressive ≠ the Tory party
change ≠ the Tory party

anyone claiming otherwise was born > they can remember the last Tory wankers who fucked up this country big time.

[di Livio]

I'm just trying to figure out how section 28 fitted in with the historically progressive agenda of the 'conservative' party.

[Metrolink VI]

Ah, the 'Back to basics' campaign of the last Tory lot.

Do as we preach, not as we do.

[rhinomatt]

Originally Posted by Metrolink VI

I'm loving the idea that the average Joe on the street is going to notice the slightest difference to their quality of life just because the Lisbon treaty has or has not been signed.

Fuck me, talk about being isolated from what really matters to normal people. The non-effect of Lisbon happening or not really ain't going to affect the people of Leeds half as much as a whole host of more important policies from education, through health to policing.

Fact is (in my opinion) our crappy electoral system means the parties that can possibly win power have to get the votes of a certain part of 'middle England'. Daily Mail readers. The issues that matter to the majority of the population of Leeds are not imprtant to David Cameron, Nick Clegg or Gordon Brown, they really are not.

Rhino's post smack of a teenie bopper who has found a new heart throb, in a decades time you will be so embaressed of the posts you have made prior to a Tory victory (disaster in my view).

Anyway, move away from thinking every policy from any party is perfect, move on, realise what party politics really is all about, it certainly ain't about doing what is best for Leeds.

So, to leave, Rhino, a challenge, to be taken seriously as a Tory supporter with your own mind I trust you can give at least three policies that the Tories will implement that will do Leeds harm compared to Labour. After all, no one, not even the most loyal MP agrees with EVERY policy. So, which are the THREE policies that the Tories will implement will do Northern cities, like Leeds, more harm than a Labour government would do?

Failure to name three suggests you have no brain of your own.

I have my views, My views don't always fit with party policy. I'm not prepared to name anything, I'm not that stupid. But I have never said I agree with everything.

[rhinomatt]

Originally Posted by Metrolink VI

progressive ≠ the Tory party
change ≠ the Tory party

anyone claiming otherwise was born > they can remember the last Tory wankers who fucked up this country big time.

This country was left in a good economic position when the Conservatives lost the election in 1997. Yet the Conservatives took over the mess of the winter of discontent etal.

[Metrolink VI]

Originally Posted by rhinomatt

I have my views, My views don't always fit with party policy. I'm not prepared to name anything, I'm not that stupid. But I have never said I agree with everything.

Why on earth is it stupid to have confidence to be able to state what your opinions are?

Christ, you do not actually think your views on the Tory party will have the slightest effect on any voting intentions do you?

[rhinomatt]

Originally Posted by di Livio

I'm just trying to figure out how section 28 fitted in with the historically progressive agenda of the 'conservative' party.

David Cameron has apologised for the conservative party's support of section 28
admitting it was wrong. Michael Howard apologised for the Conservative Party's Support for section 28 when he was leader too.

The party has moved on and changed.

[rhinomatt]

Originally Posted by Metrolink VI

Why on earth is it stupid to have confidence to be able to state what your opinions are?

Christ, you do not actually think your views on the Tory party will have the slightest effect on any voting intentions do you?

No I don't, and I am not commenting further on the matter.