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Old August 26th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #81
sotavento
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan View Post
Because originally the systems were developed before globalization & shipment of large quantities of rolling stock & motive power between different countries & global regions.

In the US there is a standard loading gauge called "AMTRAK" and it basically means there are specific dimensions for every part of the railcar or locomotive. Included are platform height, maximum length, maximum height, and turning radius or length between truck pivots. The AMTRAK standard is used on most transit rolling stock as well as Amtrak trains. Some rolling stock is "restricted" meaning it is restricted to certain trackage. For example, the superliners would be restricted from operation into/out of new york or connecting tracks since the loading gauge there is height sensitive from the PRR and B&O etc days.

- A
None of that applies to the EuroTunnel case ...

There are simplu SRICT security measures that EACH AND EVERY train must follow ... people always forget that it is a 60km UNDERWATER railway crossing ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Do not forget also that very often, those pretended "security regulations" are
nothing else than disguised protectionism. If you are in a big market with a
prosperous rolling stock building industry, putting in place rules that are not
applied anywhere else in the world will almost forbid any foreign competitor to
bid efficiently in your market. Disguising it as security measures will ensure that world trade organisation and the like do not complain. I won't cite examples but those to which the above applies will easily recognize...
What the hell are you trying to pull here ???


There are measures that must be followed in each and every train that crosses the tunnel ... live with it.

In fact SNCF (eurostar + shuttle?) and DB (old chunnel freight locomotives) already have ample knowledge about such security measures ...

1- each and every train projected to take that particular route MUST comply with those rules and the rules of the railways in both ends (if not ERTMS compatible)

2- all major players in european railway construction/operation have their share in the tunnel compatible stock ... oh ... wait ... siemens has no rollingstock currently going there ... is that you problem ???

3- the Eurotunnel is a PRIVATELY owned enterprise ... you BIAS against whatever has no groundsupport whatsoever.
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Old August 26th, 2009, 08:48 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Well if its there for the sake of protectionism it sucks anyway. ACELA wasn't built by an US company, was it? Nonetheless these standards did not only succeed in inflating the costs for the trains tremendously while making their operation considerably less efficient and considerably more energy consuming as much as more harmful to the tracks they run on.

Next time the US wants to try out some hidden protectionism it maybe should choose some which is not backfiring so terribly.

ACELA is a 100% Canuk (???is it ok to say canuk???) train ...


Rollingstock is made by bombardier in north america and to north american standards (with electric systems suplied by sub-franchised Alsthom) and is NOT in any way a TGV trainset ... it just looks like one.


Nowadays Bombardier (canadian) owns factories in Canada , USA , Europe , and other places so ... I think it was built by a (north) american company.


About the cost/eficiency of the operation ... people always forget to do the proper math:


rapid/frequent services at 160/180km/h are BETTER than 230/250km/h

rapid/frequent services at 200/220km/h are better than 270/300km/h


simply because the COST's completely overrun the BENEFITS of going faster ...

But in the end you forget that you even had that "cheaper" option back then when you decided to upgrade.


Just look at the british folks all happy with the crappy* 225km/h Javelins in a FULL BLOODED HSL (no train with top speed UNDER 300km/h should be bought in the XXI century for services there in the first place).

*) in top speed terms only ... that's even lower than the expected top speed of the APT some 30 years ago.
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Old August 26th, 2009, 08:53 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
Something that I have noticed is that all the platforms in England are high level. But not in France, Spain and Italy etc...Russia has loads of very low platforms


Historically some places have had rules to define platform heights .. .others didn't ... simple as that.

In Europe usually the height is that of 1/2 the distance between the floor and the car floor .. .and take this with a grain of salt.

Usually what is done is to reduce the floor height of the cars ... so we end up with low-floor trains nowadays ...

URban/comuter/metro/subway in continental europe usually go with the British way ... just put the platforms at the same level of the train floor.


So we have two tipes of heights ... comuter (high platforms) and long distance (low platforms with seps on cars)
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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old August 28th, 2009, 10:44 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonwiin View Post

And because Switzerland is in the Schengen area.
No Schengen has nothing to do with it. The passport controls where always made within the train, and are still made there just not with the same ammount. You are still checked for goods at the border anyway.
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The Gotthard is no sea tunnel, it has emergency exits that's something different.
There are only two exits in Faido and Amsteg and a there is a distance of 33km between them. How is it something different if there is a sea over you or a thousand meters of rock.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 05:52 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post

URban/comuter/metro/subway in continental europe usually go with the British way ... just put the platforms at the same level of the train floor.


So we have two tipes of heights ... comuter (high platforms) and long distance (low platforms with seps on cars)
It just seams a bit pointless to build a platform if they aint gonna do it to the correct height...
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:28 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
It just seams a bit pointless to build a platform if they aint gonna do it to the correct height...
"passenger alighting at XXXX please use the 2nd door of the first coach"


We hear this kind of anouncements aboard british trains a little all over the place ... something to do with having the "proper" heigh .. .but lacking the "proper" lenght ...


there are two car trains stopping in platforms where only ONE DOOR can be used .. .others are served by 8 car pendolinos where only 6 cars can fit.

A lot of other cases ou there ...



That's the drawback of high platforms without stairs ... you get dumped outside ??? or you travell to the other end of te train to aligt


medium sized (or rail height) are a compromise from the old days ...
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Old August 28th, 2009, 08:53 PM   #87
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But Britain is quite fortunate in that adapting to longer trains only requires lengthening the platforms, and long platforms are no problem whatsoever for short trains. The height problem in Europe is more difficult to overcome, as platform and train-floor heights affect each other in a much more complex way.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 12:13 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
"passenger alighting at XXXX please use the 2nd door of the first coach"


We hear this kind of anouncements aboard british trains a little all over the place ... something to do with having the "proper" heigh .. .but lacking the "proper" lenght ...


there are two car trains stopping in platforms where only ONE DOOR can be used .. .others are served by 8 car pendolinos where only 6 cars can fit.
I've never been to any station in the UK thats like that... My local station (Prestbury) has very long platforms and the trains are only 3 coaches...
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Old August 29th, 2009, 12:22 AM   #89
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Loughborough and Beeston come to mind. It's particularly interesting in the case of two-set Meridians (2*5=10 cars) - coming from London if passengers in the rear set wanted to alight at Loughborough or Beeston they'd need to alight at Leicester and get on the front set because the rear set wouldn't be platformed at Loughborough or Beeston.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 09:18 AM   #90
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I can't believe that's actually allowed in Britain. In Holland it won't happen because the maximum length of a train is limited to the shortest platform. We have to extend the platform if the NS wants ride with longer trains, often with a (sometimes not so) temporary platform made out of scaffolding.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 09:28 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
I can't believe that's actually allowed in Britain. In Holland it won't happen because the maximum length of a train is limited to the shortest platform. We have to extend the platform if the NS wants ride with longer trains, often with a (sometimes not so) temporary platform made out of scaffolding.
We British like to put our passengers through a bit of torture, just to keep them on their toes.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 11:44 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
I can't believe that's actually allowed in Britain. In Holland it won't happen because the maximum length of a train is limited to the shortest platform. We have to extend the platform if the NS wants ride with longer trains, often with a (sometimes not so) temporary platform made out of scaffolding.
I know in the past that the some platforms were too short (I believe 10 years ago). For example in Goes the intercity couldn't fit on the platform. They always warned you, but it was still a little bit strange.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 05:42 PM   #93
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ive only seen a couple of places where its been like that in the UK, but usually the platforms are long enough. sometimes part of the platform is cut of to reduce maintenence costs
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Old August 31st, 2009, 03:14 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
But then I think they have security checks also on the Spanish high speed system I think, even within the country.
That's true even for long-distance trains not running on high speed lines, but security checks are installed only on major stations. This means that a train can carry people who passed a security check on a major station (say Barcelona Sants) and also other people who hadn't passed any (Tarragona on the Barcelona - Valencia line) So I truly believe that security checks made by Renfe are completely useless, only justified by the 2004 Madrid bombings, which happened at commuter trains not affected by those checkings.

About spanish international high speed trains, there are none. The Spain-France connection, due to February 2009, is unused because the spanish connection is unfinished and it will be at least until 2012. The few international trains must change their gauge at the border (Spain has 1668mm but France uses 1435mm). The Spain-Portugal connection is also unfinished.

About the platforms, Spain has some commuter trains (Civia) which have a lower door at the platform level. Also, the Talgo trainsets have a lower floor than the rest of trains, so lifting platforms will make access to those trains more difficult. Nonetheless, stations where Talgo trains do not stop are progressively lifted.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 11:59 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micrav View Post
Ok, then it seems that 760 mm is the clear best compromise. Anybody can step 20cm up or down... And it allows everybody to adapt with time...

The standard platform height in portugal is around 90cm/120cm in the mainlines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euklidisk View Post
550 mm is better when constructing double decker coaches and having almoast no step down into lower deck from platform. Wheelchairs need no lift.
Only if the doors are at the lower level ... there are double deckers with doors above the bogies also and those benefit from the increased height:








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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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