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Old January 2nd, 2018, 04:29 PM   #741
WiseJoeyD
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Yeah, one thing I will defer to BUG on is the paper pushing planning app part of the whole process and it wouldn't surprise me if there's some legalistic stuff that means this is now locked in.

What people may be missing again in all this go around is how do you think it'd play out if they did revert? With the public?? With those experts and organisations who represent folks interested in architecture, as well as some of the key buildings that make up the city?

The case for "well if they didn't object as much to the previous one, that means it's better" is a bit shallow.

Publicity caused enough vocal blow back for the first one even with fewer numbers in total (source?) that they needed to go back to the drawing board, which means they obviously counted. Quantity not quality folks!

As evidenced by how even one forum user registering their objections can get things changed, it shouldn't be about quantity. Clearly there were merits to redesigning the plan. Especially if it lost even more facades as noted. We should be cheering that no? Not saying "well, just cos we don't get a pointless (or not) skyscraper hotel, lets throw our toys out the pram and go back to the worse one for the city". Right? Right?! .... {crickets chirping}
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 05:21 PM   #742
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Interesting article on facadism in Spitalfields - http://spitalfieldslife.com/2017/12/31/on-facadism/

Quote:
In every case, it is paramount that attention be paid to any structure as an architectural whole, rather than simply sticking a new shed behind an old facade. Taking existing buildings and reworking them sympathetically to serve new purposes requires much more sophisticated thinking from architects and developers than is in evidence in these hideous structures which manifest the lamentable plague of fašadism that blights our age.
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Sticking a new building behind the shell of the former building in this manner is a pitiful way to go about things. It is not worthy of the term architecture.

As resources grow ever less, the practice of sacrificing good quality buildings for cheapjack disposable replacements cannot be justified.
and some scary pictures...


Image from http://spitalfieldslife.com/


Image from http://spitalfieldslife.com/


Image from http://spitalfieldslife.com/


Image from http://spitalfieldslife.com/
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 05:44 PM   #743
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Wow they look horrible
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 05:57 PM   #744
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Wow they look horrible
They do indeed. Worth noting though that plans for facade retention in Royal Exchange are far superior to the above. The quality of the proposed materials alone are a much higher quality.

There are also plenty of great examples of facade retention as part of redevelopment projects.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 05:59 PM   #745
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Worth noting though that plans for facade retention in Royal Exchange are far superior to the above.
Far superior in what way?
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 06:03 PM   #746
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good grief and I thought university street was bad.

How do planners allow these redevelopments to go ahead when no effort is made to integrate the new building to the listed structure. There is no point retaining a listed wall if its simply going to be pinned to a new building and stick out like a sore thumb.

Picture two is borderline criminal.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 06:04 PM   #747
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Far superior in what way?
Nothing similar to the first two images, or the last, you posted are planned for any of the retained facades.

The new roofline along Donegal Street is actually rather attractive IMO with the planned Flemish-like front gables and while the anchor store needs more work the inclusion of glazed outdoor terraces and balconies add interest.

The retained facades will become part of the new buildings and won't be simply pinned on and stick out.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 06:12 PM   #748
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Not so sure about that...





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Old January 2nd, 2018, 06:15 PM   #749
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None of those facades are 'fake', they will actually be part of the building. The first one needs some refinement in IMO but the other two aren't as bad as the previous examples you posted. I actually rather like the glass and stone terraces above the old arcade entrance, the mess to the right is another story.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 11:01 PM   #750
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Application in to demolish this building;



The cleared land will have a temporary hard landscaping finish and allow the full paving of the new Upper Lombard Street which will connect Lombard Street with North Street and run alongside the new church square and office block.

Castlebrooke plan to install some container units as an interim once this building is demolished and remove them prior to construction of the hotel.

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Old January 15th, 2018, 12:48 PM   #751
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Lower North Street-looking towards Upper North Street in the 1950's...

Image from @wackyj67 on Twitter
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Old January 15th, 2018, 03:12 PM   #752
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Really nice.

Nice to see how busy it was too. Think nowadays the time you would mostly see those sorts of crowds at that end of the street would be Christmas time
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Old January 15th, 2018, 03:20 PM   #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseJoeyD View Post
Really nice.

Nice to see how busy it was too. Think nowadays the time you would mostly see those sorts of crowds at that end of the street would be Christmas time
Certainly helps that Upper North Street is still intact in that image... an equivalent from today would be grim.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 03:38 PM   #754
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this photo is not 'nice' this photo is extremely depressing. Is not even a question what happened to the North Street but what happened with Belfast.

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Old January 15th, 2018, 03:44 PM   #755
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Stop being negative and talking down Belfast!*

At least the Bank of Ireland buliding survives and continues to add a touch of class to the area.


*last time I 'joke' about this, but I hope y'all see the point...
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Old January 15th, 2018, 05:16 PM   #756
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Think nowadays the time you would mostly see those sorts of crowds at that end of the street would be Christmas time
Or Culture Night or Pride.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 05:24 PM   #757
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That comparison is grim, but context is important here in that the North Street area was originally much more prominent in terms of shops/business, etc. Gradually this emphasis moved further up Royal Avenue, towards Donegall Place, which is considered the core retail area today. And perhaps, if the city had a larger population, the area would still be as busy.

Imagine asking someone from the 1950's photograph what they think the area might look like in 2018 - I doubt any of them would describe the current state! But there's still a lot of potential for redevelopment, if only certain groups would stop objecting/rejecting every proposal. And if we had a decent government at work. And a more effective planning process.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 07:04 PM   #758
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The whole thing is a complete and utter farce. I sound like a broken record here, but if 15 years ago the council had granted the landlords on North St & Donegall St money to renovate and improve their properties, then I have absolutely no doubt that we'd have a vibrant quarter today. You just have to look at Hill St and see what a few landlords have done without any demolition. Why can't the same happen on North St...

What the council need to do now is come up with an alternative masterplan for the area. A masterplan which involves fully restoring the arcade, opening up Writers Square as a large performance and events space (akin to Custom House Sq). A masterplan which sees both streets fully pedestrianised. Entries re-opened. New bars, cultural spaces, hotels, resturants, apartments above the ground floor level opened.

A real cultural melting pot and not another soulless Victoria Sq.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 07:38 PM   #759
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Pity cause I would say that it was the Germans that had a good go at that area, and it never got properly redeveloped in the troubles.

But almost all the destruction in the black and white photo was recent.
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Old January 16th, 2018, 02:09 PM   #760
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Quote:
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Imagine asking someone from the 1950's photograph what they think the area might look like in 2018 -
Worth a visit to Reddit's 'RetroFuturism' subreddit - really fun posters and illustrations from the 50's and 60's showing how they imagined the future to look. It may seem silly to have dreamt so... Jetson-y but it gave people hope and remember that those two decades alone produced (or lay the groundwork) for huge advances in the sciences and world around them (and now us) so overly ambitious Hope is a good thing and makes a refreshing change from our truly grim notions that everything has to be 'realistic'/cost neutral. That just sets the bar low, and delivers lower.

That picture was taken 10 years after a world war.
A picture now, nearly 20 years after our own local conflict, ... ah well, don't want to be to appear negative so I won't say but I just refer back to the other forum goers comments before mine.

PS I'm actually still hopeful for the area and where it is, even now - this post should be read as such.
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