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Old February 25th, 2009, 07:51 AM   #21
sequoias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
2.6km/h/s (commercial acceleration rate not necessarily the maximum accerleration rate)
Ah, that's similar to the diesel commuter rail trains, probably at full throttle but not at full throttle with that EMU HST.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 10:53 AM   #22
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Saying that the N700 is the fastest accelerating train is a bit wrong, since there are commuter trains in Japan (like on the Yamanote line) that have acceleration figures that are over 3 km/h/s.

It should be that the N700 have the fastest accelerating HST.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:13 AM   #23
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edit: posted in the wrong topic...
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Old February 27th, 2009, 04:32 PM   #24
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N700 has according to technical data 2.6 km/h/s.
In Switzerland we go for commuter trains and tramways upto 3.6 km/h/s. Higher you can not go in commercial service since it would be unconfortable for the passengers and there is a risk that standing passengers fall over.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 06:04 AM   #25
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It would be funny when passengers fly then splat into the back of the train when it accelerates pretty fast.

I saw a video of a guy driving the Link light rail in Seattle, he was flooring it to the max and it was flying on the tracks! There wasn't any passengers, of course.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 06:09 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcrail View Post
N700 has according to technical data 2.6 km/h/s.
In Switzerland we go for commuter trains and tramways upto 3.6 km/h/s. Higher you can not go in commercial service since it would be unconfortable for the passengers and there is a risk that standing passengers fall over.
So that takes roughly 27 seconds to reach 60 mph at 2.2 mph/sec. I read somewhere that the Salt Lake city light rail can accelerate from zero to 55 mph in 21 seconds.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 11:30 PM   #27
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One important difference between push-pull trains and EMUs is that, if you change the
length of the consist, for a push pull train the power/weight ratio will vary, while with
EMUs it will remain constant. Add cars to a push-pull train and you will see lower
performance; add units to an EMU train and the performance will remain the same. This
is specially important if you have to adhere to a schedule that repeats itself for example
every hour of the day; replacing EMUs by loco-hauled trains in the peak hours to obtain
more capacity results usually in less performance and therefore delays.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:50 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
One important difference between push-pull trains and EMUs is that, if you change the
length of the consist, for a push pull train the power/weight ratio will vary, while with
EMUs it will remain constant. Add cars to a push-pull train and you will see lower
performance; add units to an EMU train and the performance will remain the same. This
is specially important if you have to adhere to a schedule that repeats itself for example
every hour of the day; replacing EMUs by loco-hauled trains in the peak hours to obtain
more capacity results usually in less performance and therefore delays.

again. your theory works, but most EMUs do not allow flexible additions or subtractions from the set configuration. To make a 8 unit train 9 units will require almost a complete reprograming of the train's systems, which cost tons of money and takes lots of time.

You can only add EMUs by train sets, ie. you can hook up two 8 units sets. but you can't eaily add units, ie. add 2 more coaches to a 8 car EMU 10 cars. .
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
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again. your theory works, but most EMUs do not allow flexible additions or subtractions from the set configuration. To make a 8 unit train 9 units will require almost a complete reprograming of the train's systems, which cost tons of money and takes lots of time.

You can only add EMUs by train sets, ie. you can hook up two 8 units sets. but you can't eaily add units, ie. add 2 more coaches to a 8 car EMU 10 cars. .
Of course ! That is not what I meant. But it is very unusual to have EMUs
that long. Most of the time EMUs are 2, 3 or 4 cars long. In that case, varying
the length of the train by adding one or more units is a very affordable
operation.

And for the case of the high speed trains, even those that resemble the most
to a loco-hauled formation, like for example DB ICE1 or ICE2, do not see their
consist modified so often. Once they are formed they mostly remain
untouched till their next maintenance. We'll see how ÖBB operate their
new railjets.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 01:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Of course ! That is not what I meant. But it is very unusual to have EMUs
that long. Most of the time EMUs are 2, 3 or 4 cars long. In that case, varying
the length of the train by adding one or more units is a very affordable
operation.
Huhhhh?
Where did you get that notion?
All EMU HSTs are 8 cart or 15 cart per train sets around the world.
Most metros are more than 8 cart per train sets and some are as long as 15 cart per set here in Japan.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 04:25 PM   #31
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Some HST EMU in Spain and Slovenian's ETR 310 (most of them are Pendolini) have 3 or 4 car and can work in multiple. Some mainline DMU in the UK have 4 or 5 cars.

But for new trains the standard is 200 m, with ability to run in multiple (like the Velaro, the NewPendolino, ...).
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 10:19 PM   #32
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ICE 3: 8 cars
ICE T: 5/7 cars

However it has to be pointed out that EMUs are far more common in regional/suburban transit and less in long distance transit, where classic push-pull trains are still strong.
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 05:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
Huhhhh?
Where did you get that notion?
All EMU HSTs are 8 cart or 15 cart per train sets around the world.
Most metros are more than 8 cart per train sets and some are as long as 15 cart per set here in Japan.
Here in China, CRH2B and CRH2E EMU trains have 16 cars.

Passenger Capacity:
* CRH2B: 1230 (first-class seats+second-class seats)
* CRH2E: 520 (110 second-class seats, 410 sleepers)

Last edited by yaohua2000; March 3rd, 2009 at 05:49 PM.
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 06:10 PM   #34
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I think Tri-ring meant 16.

The point is that EMUs aren't limited to 2, 3, or 4 cars.
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Old March 5th, 2009, 08:54 AM   #35
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Would be interesting to see a bi-level EMU HST with 32 cars (16x2) That's a lot of passengers for sure! Of course, the platforms would be too long for sure.
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Old March 5th, 2009, 09:38 AM   #36
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^ They are running 8 and 12 car long bi-level HST trains in Japan, and in some cases for extra capacity they even run 8x2 cars (this adds up to about 1600 passengers/train). But they can't go over 16 cars since the Shinkansen system isn't dimensioned to handle longer trains.
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Old March 5th, 2009, 10:17 AM   #37
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32 cars are about 800 m..........
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Old March 6th, 2009, 08:26 AM   #38
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32 unit passanger train? Where? Please show me.
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Old March 7th, 2009, 05:35 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
^ They are running 8 and 12 car long bi-level HST trains in Japan, and in some cases for extra capacity they even run 8x2 cars (this adds up to about 1600 passengers/train). But they can't go over 16 cars since the Shinkansen system isn't dimensioned to handle longer trains.
Yeah, that's a lot of passengers in one trainset. I think u were talking about the Shinkansen MAX E4. The older version is the E1 which holds up to 1200 or so passengers with 12 cars.
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Old March 7th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
again. your theory works, but most EMUs do not allow flexible additions or subtractions from the set configuration. To make a 8 unit train 9 units will require almost a complete reprograming of the train's systems, which cost tons of money and takes lots of time.

You can only add EMUs by train sets, ie. you can hook up two 8 units sets. but you can't eaily add units, ie. add 2 more coaches to a 8 car EMU 10 cars. .
I think you're confusing the usages of "unit" vs "carriage" in this thread.

An EMU/DMU unit would refer to the set of carriages that could not easily be reconfigured without a trip back to a workshop. There's no HSR in Australia but the regional rail services are operated using 2- and 3- carriage DMUs which allow any configuration from two to eight carriages, platform length permitting.

We also have a fleet of single carriage railcars which function as DMUs and can be hooked up to whatever length required. This can be contrasted with the older loco-hauled fleet where the carriages are grouped up into sets between three and six carriages long but typically aren't divided anyway.

Suburban EMUs here contain an unpowered carriage sandwiched between two powered carriages for those seeking a smoother and quieter ride.
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