Bicol International Airport Development Project

[litigs]

Originally Posted by rbicol

You want for clear explaination. FAA & EU imposed this creation of ICAO, CAAP is part or a member of this organization. Although ICAO is a separate body but still FAA & EU are behind or overlook this international organization. I say it under or it comes from FAA organization because you already see how CAAP is being controlled by FAA/EU/ICAO. Changing ATO to CAAP there is no difference if this local agency do not comply requirements being imposed to aviation law. If FAA/ICAO/EU promulgate to stop the operation of CAAP internationally, its a big shamed to international aviation, failure to meet the standard requirements and that cause a paralyzation of main international airport.

Would you like FAA to take over CAAP? If this happened thats answer your previous question that Hotchkiss will report to washington but if this happened, he might kick out from this agency.

Would like Philippine aviation to be in PPP? I think thats better but always expect that there will be disadvantages.

I hope this failure won't be repeated to this BIA or SLIA. I am not sure if this is already in PPP project, as per as i read on statements SLIA is a PPP.

The requirements of FAA/ICAO is not limited to airport, its also for building aviation lights heights and locations.

I hope this is clear enough how important or how FAA/ICAO overall the international aviation.

Sorry bud, you just didn't understand the organizational structure of these agencies and how they work with each other; also if you can't explain in plain English, we can understand Tagalog. By the way, if you want to contribute in the forum, please don't present garbled information. Cut and paste is good if you know what you are talking about!

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by litigs

Sorry bud, you just didn't understand the organizational structure of these agencies and how they work with each other; also if you can't explain in plain English, we can understand Tagalog. By the way, if you want to contribute in the forum, please don't present garbled information. Cut and paste is good if you know what you are talking about!

Ok bud it's your turn, give your best shot. I admit that incorrect statement or word of "that CAAP or ATO comes from the organization of FAA"
ATO was renamed to CAAP due to the FAA downgrade. Our agencies has a long history were was started.

Please explain on your own knowledge/understanding about this agencies with your own word, the function of each, there standard requirements? What is the role of FAA and ICAO to CAAP? because some say's "this is not america" that must be corrected and also but not limited to other international organization involved and to what organization they are connected?

Maybe you could indicate one by one in specific and itemize so that idiot like me can easily pick up and understand.
Very much appreciated your specific input bud, thanks!

[litigs]

Originally Posted by rbicol

Ok bud it's your turn, give your best shot. I admit that incorrect statement or word of "that CAAP or ATO comes from the organization of FAA"
ATO was renamed to CAAP due to the FAA downgrade. Our agencies has a long history were was started.

Please explain on your own knowledge/understanding about this agencies with your own word, the function of each, there standard requirements? What is the role of FAA and ICAO to CAAP? because some say's "this is not america" that must be corrected and also but not limited to other international organization involved and to what organization they are connected?

Maybe you could indicate one by one in specific and itemize so that idiot like me can easily pick up and understand.
Very much appreciated your specific input bud, thanks!

First, understand that ICAO is an international body chartered by the UN with 191 member states, this is part of the structure of the United Nations. The agency was formed to standardized the aviation industry and ensure control on safety and air traffic management. Example, communication in "English"," three letter airport codes", classification of runways, updates and outline of information of the AIP(aeronautical information publication), procedures in air traffic investigation, etc. Simply, this is for countries to have a common ground in aviation. Now each country have their own transportation departments and the FAA and our CAAP are the agencies that regulates the aviation portion and can impose restrictions to other countries based on the standards set by ICAO. So first FAA downgraded the Philippines, then ICAO took the cue and handed another downgrade as well on the basis of the high expectation of ICAO for the US in adopting standards. There are two key points of this downgrade and they are simply accounting( records keeping) and the flight checks( qualified personnel inspecting the aptitude of pilots). For same reason, ICAO handed the downgrade but them being an international body will give a greater bearing as other countries like South Korea imposing a restriction as well will look up to it.

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by litigs

First, understand that ICAO is an international body chartered by the UN with 191 member states, this is part of the structure of the United Nations. The agency was formed to standardized the aviation industry and ensure control on safety and air traffic management. Example, communication in "English"," three letter airport codes", classification of runways, updates and outline of information of the AIP(aeronautical information publication), procedures in air traffic investigation, etc. Simply, this is for countries to have a common ground in aviation. Now each country have their own transportation departments and the FAA and our CAAP are the agencies that regulates the aviation portion and can impose restrictions to other countries based on the standards set by ICAO. So first FAA downgraded the Philippines, then ICAO took the cue and handed another downgrade as well on the basis of the high expectation of ICAO for the US in adopting standards. There are two key points of this downgrade and they are simply accounting( records keeping) and the flight checks( qualified personnel inspecting the aptitude of pilots). For same reason, ICAO handed the downgrade but them being an international body will give a greater bearing as other countries like South Korea imposing a restriction as well will look up to it.

Ok good point i agree, good research of 191 members states close to 198 whatever the number is, thats include Philippines CAAP. Maybe there is a lot more ICAO functions not only what you mentioned.

So US/FAA take the lead for the audit, you mentioned that because on "the high expectation of ICAO for the US in adopting standards" maybe there is more than that reason why US/FAA is taking the lead? and there is a programmed stablished by US to appreciate a country's ability to adhere to standards and recommended practices for aircraft operations and maintenance, that is why FAA is more functional.

The audit i think is more on technical and safety towards the standards of ICAO.

And CAAP functions is to;(from CAAP website, don't take it seriously of cut & paste becuase if adding or editing any information i might get prosecuted this is only to get others awareness)

Establish and prescribe rules and regulations for the inspection and registration of all aircraft owned and operated in the Philippines and all air facilities; Establish and prescribe the corresponding rules and regulations for the enforcement of laws governing air transportation; Determine, fix and/or prescribe charges and/or rates pertinent to the operation of public air utility facilities and services; Administer and operate the Civil Aviation Training Center (CATC); Operate and maintain national airports, air navigation and other similar facilities in compliance to ICAO; Perform such other powers and functions as may be prescribed by law.
Maybe we should know the Organizations relations of international organizations and where CAAP is connected.
Maybe other smart forumer can also add information or have there input of there own point of view/knowledge/idea not only to keep on commenting or agreeing.

[wolfdgreat]

atleast now you understand.. now go back and review your previous statements.. you might want to correct them


like what you have said..

Sometimes we have to use our mind before we use our mouth.

cheers mate

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by wolfdgreat

atleast now you understand.. now go back and review your previous statements.. you might want to correct them


like what you have said..



cheers mate

No, i don't understand becuase i'm idiot

Did you mentioned that FAA is only deals with there airspace jurisdiction? That is why FAA is taking the lead of audit?

Maybe you have a butt to explain this?
Appreciate your mentality.

[litigs]

Originally Posted by rbicol

Ok good point i agree, good research of 191 members states close to 198 whatever the number is, thats include Philippines CAAP. Maybe there is a lot more ICAO functions not only what you mentioned.

So US/FAA take the lead for the audit, you mentioned that because on "the high expectation of ICAO for the US in adopting standards" maybe there is more than that reason why US/FAA is taking the lead? and there is a programmed stablished by US to appreciate a country's ability to adhere to standards and recommended practices for aircraft operations and maintenance, that is why FAA is more functional.

The audit i think is more on technical and safety towards the standards of ICAO.

And CAAP functions is to;(from CAAP website, don't take it seriously of cut & paste becuase if adding or editing any information i might get prosecuted this is only to get others awareness)

Establish and prescribe rules and regulations for the inspection and registration of all aircraft owned and operated in the Philippines and all air facilities; Establish and prescribe the corresponding rules and regulations for the enforcement of laws governing air transportation; Determine, fix and/or prescribe charges and/or rates pertinent to the operation of public air utility facilities and services; Administer and operate the Civil Aviation Training Center (CATC); Operate and maintain national airports, air navigation and other similar facilities in compliance to ICAO; Perform such other powers and functions as may be prescribed by law.
Maybe we should know the Organizations relations of international organizations and where CAAP is connected.
Maybe other smart forumer can also add information or have there input of there own point of view/knowledge/idea not only to keep on commenting or agreeing.

Now we are in better terms of understanding here. Now the FAA restriction is under their International Air Safety Assessment umbrella; by the way, don't you know they have downgraded Israel too! And this due to an air traffic control issue at some airport they don't want to disclose publicly(security issue), ICAO however didn't give the downgrade as Israel was able to rectify the issue in time, same as with the case of Mexico. With your cooperation, we might just cease on this topic to give way for a better discussion on the Bicol airport subject itself which poses one curious question; at this point, what is going on at the site?

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by litigs

Now we are in better terms of understanding here. Now the FAA restriction is under their International Air Safety Assessment umbrella; by the way, don't you know they have downgraded Israel too! And this due to an air traffic control issue at some airport they don't want to disclose publicly(security issue), ICAO however didn't give the downgrade as Israel was able to rectify the issue in time, same as with the case of Mexico. With your cooperation, we might just cease on this topic to give way for a better discussion on the Bicol airport subject itself which poses one curious question; at this point, what is going on at the site?

That is why i mentioned FAA is to considerate for BIA/SLIA, is that right? But there is deeper reason why is US is taking this nationwide audit that started on YR 2008 by FAA. I do not know if you know?

Maybe no construction is going on, you can read DOTC website or you can investigate. Maybe anybody on this forum can shout that knows what is the current condition of the project site. Bid of the construction of RUNWAY, TAXIWAY, APRON AND PERMIMETER FENCE is published.

[wolfdgreat]

Originally Posted by rbicol

No, i don't understand becuase i'm idiot

Did you mentioned that FAA is only deals with there airspace jurisdiction? That is why FAA is taking the lead of audit?

Maybe you have a butt to explain this?
Appreciate your mentality.

You may want to read this.

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/I...essment_(IASA)


Anyway.. Let's move on.

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by wolfdgreat

You may want to read this.

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/I...essment_(IASA)


Anyway.. Let's move on.

Now you got it, of what i am talking about the programme of US/FAA. But still there is a reason why is US/FAA is taking the led for audit worldwide? and organization relations of international organization.

FAA is doing there overhaul to promote the safest aviation for the future NextGen, why can't CAAP do the same? Sorry, but it's money matters or political issues or incompetent.

This is good, we do not need to throw sarcasm word but to appreciate, we can correct the incorrect analysis or statement.

[wolfdgreat]

Originally Posted by rbicol

Now you got it, of what i am talking about the programme of US/FAA. But still there is a reason why is US/FAA is taking the led for audit worldwide? and organization relations of international organization.

FAA is doing there overhaul to promote the safest aviation for the future NextGen, why can't CAAP do the same? Sorry, but it's money matters or political issues or incompetent.

This is good, we do not need to throw sarcasm word but to appreciate, we can correct the incorrect analysis or statement.

That program is basically covers US. if you have read it properly. FAA didnt take the lead. Before the downgrade, PAL requested for additional flight to US, and change aircraft, that triggers the audit.

that is basically same with EU route, around 2010, PAL planned to fly to EU.

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by wolfdgreat

That program is basically covers US. if you have read it properly. FAA didnt take the lead. Before the downgrade, PAL requested for additional flight to US, and change aircraft, that triggers the audit.

that is basically same with EU route, around 2010, PAL planned to fly to EU.

You have your point.
I could not give more proof to you were i got that information, they started the audit yr 2008 worlwide. Please read below its from FAA, i do not know if i understand it clearly. FAA is working closely continously to ICAO to promote there critical satety... and to the expansion of air traffic...; FAA is a key player of ICAO’s Group on International Aviation and Climate Change... you can read it below. (i just copy and paste it for awareness, not an issue)

INTERNATIONAL LEADERSHIP
Our goal is to increase the safety and capacity of the global civil aerospace system in an environmentally sound manner.

As the number of international passengers and aviation activities across the globe increase every year, it becomes even more important for the United States to continue to be the gold standard for aviation safety. To make this happen, the FAA actively builds partnerships and shares knowledge to create a safe, seamless, and efficient global aviation system. Our premise is simple: national boundary lines should not be impediments to safety. That’s why we’ve worked with over 130 countries and regional organizations to provide technical assistance and training. We’ve continued to work closely with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) to promote our critical safety and capacity initiatives with the larger international audience, with a clear focus to ensure global harmonization of NextGen’s performance-based systems and procedures. We also promote the important work that ICAO does through its Universal Safety Oversight Audit Program (USOAP). Adherence to international standards is everyone’s responsibility, and everyone’s gain.
With NextGen technologies and procedures, FAA works to improve aviation system efficiency and establish seamless operations beyond our borders while reducing aviation’s environmental foot-print. We continue harmonizing standards and procedures with our neighbours in Mexico and Canada. We are comparing our aviation system with those of Japan and the European Union to identify future equipment and procedural needs.
We also are expanding our cooperative efforts with China to collaborate on future NextGen air traffic initiatives.
Environmental issues continue to be a large part of our efforts. The FAA is a key player in ICAO’s Group on International Aviation and Climate Change as it develops an international strategy to address aviation greenhouse gas emissions. We continue our work with European and industry partners through the Atlantic Interoperability Initiative to Reduce Emissions (AIRE). To address environmental issues in the Pacific region, we established the Asia and South Pacific Initiative to Reduce Emissions (ASPIRE) partnership. We expect that initiatives like AIRE and ASPIRE will serve as a framework for similar cooperative efforts in other parts of the world.

[wolfdgreat]

Originally Posted by rbicol

You have your point.
I could not give more proof to you were i got that information, they started the audit yr 2008 worlwide. Please read below its from FAA, i do not know if i understand it clearly. FAA is working closely continously to ICAO to promote there critical satety... and to the expansion of air traffic...; FAA is a key player of ICAO’s Group on International Aviation and Climate Change... you can read it below. (i just copy and paste it for awareness, not an issue)

INTERNATIONAL LEADERSHIP
Our goal is to increase the safety and capacity of the global civil aerospace system in an environmentally sound manner.

As the number of international passengers and aviation activities across the globe increase every year, it becomes even more important for the United States to continue to be the gold standard for aviation safety. To make this happen, the FAA actively builds partnerships and shares knowledge to create a safe, seamless, and efficient global aviation system. Our premise is simple: national boundary lines should not be impediments to safety. That’s why we’ve worked with over 130 countries and regional organizations to provide technical assistance and training. We’ve continued to work closely with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) to promote our critical safety and capacity initiatives with the larger international audience, with a clear focus to ensure global harmonization of NextGen’s performance-based systems and procedures. We also promote the important work that ICAO does through its Universal Safety Oversight Audit Program (USOAP). Adherence to international standards is everyone’s responsibility, and everyone’s gain.
With NextGen technologies and procedures, FAA works to improve aviation system efficiency and establish seamless operations beyond our borders while reducing aviation’s environmental foot-print. We continue harmonizing standards and procedures with our neighbours in Mexico and Canada. We are comparing oaviation system with those of Japan and the European Union to identify future equipment and procedural needs.
We also are expanding our cooperative efforts with China to collaborate on future NextGen air traffic initiatives.
Environmental issues continue to be a large part of our efforts. The FAA is a key player in ICAO’s Group on International Aviation and Climate Change as it develops an international strategy to address aviation greenhouse gas emissions. We continue our work with European and industry partners through the Atlantic Interoperability Initiative to Reduce Emissions (AIRE). To address environmental issues in the Pacific region, we established the Asia and South Pacific Initiative to Reduce Emissions (ASPIRE) partnership. We expect that initiatives like AIRE and ASPIRE will serve as a framework for similar cooperative efforts in other parts of the world.

This nothing to do with the audit.

Their Audit did not just started in 2008 and not worldwide. they do audit only to those countries that airlines have or planning operating to and from US. Also, they renew the audit every 2years.

As for our international Airport(BIA) FAA has nothing to do with it. FAA audits Countries Aviation Authority, and not directly the airport.

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by wolfdgreat

This nothing to do with the audit.

Their Audit did not just started in 2008 and not worldwide. they do audit only to those countries that airlines have or planning operating to and from US. Also, they renew the audit every 2years.

As for our international Airport(BIA) FAA has nothing to do with it. FAA audits Countries Aviation Authority, and not directly the airport.

Ok no argue, I know that countries with operation to US & EU. That's why there is an issue to CAAP by this FAA, failure to meet ICAO standards. and were banned to EU.

I don't think so is not direct to the airport also. Why is it that some of the flights diverted to Diosdado Macapagal International Airport (Clark) that also being audited coincided to the breakdown of equipment or brought the equipment to other airport in order to continue the operation? Is that because of the navigation equipment failed, airport itself?
Will the BIA/SLIA soon to be one of the International Airport of the Philippines be an alternative or to serves as a secondary airport and a main diversion airport of the NAIA, off course similar issue then, FAA audits? Who knows? Is that making sense? Correct me if i’m wrong please.
A lot of bicolanos in US & EU heard about this BIA/SLIA, they are happy that they can directly fly from the origin to homeland, vise versa. ME TOO but i'm not from US or EU

[litigs]

Originally Posted by rbicol

That is why i mentioned FAA is to considerate for BIA/SLIA, is that right? But there is deeper reason why is US is taking this nationwide audit that started on YR 2008 by FAA. I do not know if you know?

Maybe no construction is going on, you can read DOTC website or you can investigate. Maybe anybody on this forum can shout that knows what is the current condition of the project site. Bid of the construction of RUNWAY, TAXIWAY, APRON AND PERMIMETER FENCE is published.

Last photos I've seen was the access road to the airport site being constructed and the clearing and grading of the area, so that portion of the civil work must have been awarded already. Now its the sub-base, concreting and horizontal works that will be next.

[wolfdgreat]

These are just my opinion.

Why is it that some of the flights diverted to Diosdado Macapagal International Airport (Clark) that also being audited coincided to the breakdown of equipment or brought the equipment to other airport in order to continue the operation? Is that because of the navigation equipment failed, airport itself?

DMIA is the main alternate of NAIA, so if NAIA is not available, flight will automatically diverted to the alternate(DMIA).
The audit has nothing to do with the breakdown of equipment.

Will the BIA/SLIA soon to be one of the International Airport of the Philippines be an alternative or to serves as a secondary airport and a main diversion airport of the NAIA, off course similar issue then, FAA audits? Who knows? Is that making sense? Correct me if i’m wrong please.

It can be an alternate to NAIA, together with DMIA and MCIA. FAA Audits has nothing to do with flight diversion or prevents flight to land in the airport. Flight are being diverted once an airport is not available to accept landing (due to weather, equipment breakdown, etc).

A lot of bicolanos in US & EU heard about this BIA/SLIA, they are happy that they can directly fly from the origin to homeland, vise versa. ME TOO but i'm not from US or EU

Even if BIA will be an International Airport, it doesn't guarantee a direct flight to US and EU. That would depend on the Airline. But for now.. it is just next to impossible.
But for me, BIA would best serve ASEAN and East Asia.

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by wolfdgreat

These are just my opinion.

DMIA is the main alternate of NAIA, so if NAIA is not available, flight will automatically diverted to the alternate(DMIA).
The audit has nothing to do with the breakdown of equipment.


It can be an alternate to NAIA, together with DMIA and MCIA. FAA Audits has nothing to do with flight diversion or prevents flight to land in the airport. Flight are being diverted once an airport is not available to accept landing (due to weather, equipment breakdown, etc).


Even if BIA will be an International Airport, it doesn't guarantee a direct flight to US and EU. That would depend on the Airline. But for now.. it is just next to impossible.
But for me, BIA would best serve ASEAN and East Asia.

Great, i respect your opinion, it does make sense.
There are 8 areas audited...this is what i know.
will just see in the near future of BIA/SLIA.
and hopefully our CAAP will be competent to other countries and to have our banner in good reputation, the immigration officials as well.

read this article if you want to. thanks
http://www.himpapawid.com/internatio...repair-station

[wolfdgreat]

Originally Posted by rbicol

read this article if you want to. thanks
http://www.himpapawid.com/internatio...repair-station

Thanks.
That's bad publicity for LTP.
I have read before that, Associated Press was misqouted a portion of interview made by them after the LTP renewal audit.
Anyway, Repair Station is a different story and not the same audit done by FAA to CAAP. Each Repair station seek permit to different Country Aviation Authority(FAA for the US) for them to serve client(Airline) registered from that particular country.

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by wolfdgreat

Thanks.
That's bad publicity for LTP.
I have read before that, Associated Press was misqouted a portion of interview made by them after the LTP renewal audit.
Anyway, Repair Station is a different story and not the same audit done by FAA to CAAP. Each Repair station seek permit to different Country Aviation Authority(FAA for the US) for them to serve client(Airline) registered from that particular country.

Ok, I agree, a lot of news/article with different interpretation, different views and that's makes to misleading of actual condition.

[rbicol]

Originally Posted by litigs

Last photos I've seen was the access road to the airport site being constructed and the clearing and grading of the area, so that portion of the civil work must have been awarded already. Now its the sub-base, concreting and horizontal works that will be next.

General Bid Bulletins of DOTC
http://www.dotc.gov.ph/index.php?opt...367&Itemid=133