How to Speak Persian

[arashmordad]

Originally Posted by Engineer23

I have a question is the Persian spoken in Iran (Farsi), the same as the Persian spoken in Afghanistan(Dari) and Tajikistan (Tajik)? Is there any noticeable difference between them when someone from Iran hears them speaking.

They are all the same language but different dialects. For the most part they are all similar and can pretty much understand one another (Afghans and Tajiks being able to understand Iranians better than Iranians may be able to understand them) but they do have their differences of words and pronunciations. It is just as English dialects: American, British, Scots English, Australian, Irish English, etc. They all are the same language but different dialects and accents.

For instance take the present tense of the verb "budæn:" hæstæm, hæsti, etc. In the Farsi dialect the "h" is vocal, where as in the Dari (Afghan) dialect it is not, so it would sound more like æstæm, æsti, etc.

So yes there are noticeable differences between them, especially when an Iranian is hearing the western dialects. That being said, there are also noticeable difference with the accents in the Farsi dialect(s), especially in what region of Iran you are in. This is just like with the English spoken in the USA. Iran though has many different native languages spoken in the country, not just Persian. Persian is just the official language of the state.

[Daguy]

Iranians tend to use more Arabic loanwords than Afghans, and in particular, Tajiks in conversation. This is likely the result of geographic positioning in relation to the Arab World. Iran is the closest to the Arab World whereas Tajikistan, far away and isolated in a mountainous region, retained many native Persian words that have been lost in other dialects.

This loss of native vocabulary is somewhat of a shame in my opinion, as the native Persian words tend to sound prettier in my opinion, and the native vocabulary is Indo-European and thus serves as a bridge between Persian and European languages. This situation reminds me of the way French has affected the English language, which in its highly sophisticated/technical forms is pretty much French/Latin with English grammar.

[arashmordad]

Originally Posted by Daguy

Iranians tend to use more Arabic loanwords than Afghans, and in particular, Tajiks in conversation. This is likely the result of geographic positioning in relation to the Arab World. Iran is the closest to the Arab World whereas Tajikistan, far away and isolated in a mountainous region, retained many native Persian words that have been lost in other dialects.

This loss of native vocabulary is somewhat of a shame in my opinion, as the native Persian words tend to sound prettier in my opinion, and the native vocabulary is Indo-European and thus serves as a bridge between Persian and European languages. This situation reminds me of the way French has affected the English language, which in its highly sophisticated/technical forms is pretty much French/Latin with English grammar.

I actually disagree on this point. In modern times, the Dari (Afghan) dialect has more Arabic loan words than the Farsi (Iranian) dialect. During the 20th Century, there was a Persian Nationalistic movement growing in Iran and because of that there has been a resurgence in using more traditional Persian words in Farsi. I used to know a lot of the difference in vocabulary but I have forgotten it.

[Daguy]

Really? This is very interesting to me because many Afghans I know complain that Iranians speak Farsi mixed with Arabic.

I did hear that during the Shah's era there was effort to decrease the amount of Arabic used in Farsi, but that after the revolution the new government moved towards increased use of Arabic. Of course official speeches do not necessarily reflect casual conversation.

I would be interested to know some examples if you can find them.

[Indo-Iranian]

Nice thread!

It's going to take me more than just grammar lessons to learn it, though. I have a bootleg copy of Farsi on Rosetta Stone, but it doesn't work. Surprise surprise. That or I'm not tech savvy enough to get it going.

Regardless, I'll be going through this thread. =)

[QWECXZ]

well, it's a very complicated topic to talk about loan words. not all persian words that are the same with arabic are arabic. a lot of arabic words have entered the arabic language from persian (especially pahlavi).

[Daguy]

Originally Posted by QWECXZ

well, it's a very complicated topic to talk about loan words. not all persian words that are the same with arabic are arabic. a lot of arabic words have entered the arabic language from persian (especially pahlavi).

I agree with you, and with so much time having past since that period the words have changed a lot in definition and translation. It can be difficult to determine the exact language of origin of a given word after a lot of time has passed.

[arashmordad]

Originally Posted by Daguy

Really? This is very interesting to me because many Afghans I know complain that Iranians speak Farsi mixed with Arabic.

I did hear that during the Shah's era there was effort to decrease the amount of Arabic used in Farsi, but that after the revolution the new government moved towards increased use of Arabic. Of course official speeches do not necessarily reflect casual conversation.

I would be interested to know some examples if you can find them.

Actually, having done some more studying and talking to people, it's mostly not that one dialect has more Arabic loaned words than the other, but just that they use both use different loaned words. For instance in Farsi (especially in the big cities) they mostly now use mersi for a quick "thanks," while in Dari they mostly use mæmnun or motshæker. That being said, the Eastern Dialects still retain a little more of Arabic loaned words.

[QWECXZ]

Originally Posted by Daguy

I agree with you, and with so much time having past since that period the words have changed a lot in definition and translation. It can be difficult to determine the exact language of origin of a given word after a lot of time has passed.

yea. in fact the pure arabic has a defined structure. they build new words using defined templates. they usually use 3-4 letters as a root for deriving new words. but a lot of words in arabic don't follow such rules and they have entered the language from persian and other languages. like borteqal which comes from the persian word 'porteqal', or 'bostan' which is purely persian (boo+ustan). colors like 'borteqali', 'khaki', 'qahvei' and so forth have entered the arabic language from persian language and you can clearly see the noun+/i/ structure in them. arabic has a lot of loan words from qypti(egyptian), feniqi(phoenician), suryani(syriac), pahlavi(ancient persian) and other languages that are mostly aramaic rooted.

[Fried_Shrimp]

Does anyone know any farsi-book where the letters contain umlauts? I tried looking for them in Iran but couldn't find them. Maybe someone know of any you can get from amazon?

You know the symbols they teach you at first grade in Iran? So you're able to learn Farsi?

The red ones.

Thanks in advance.

[Daguy]

Originally Posted by Fried_Shrimp

Does anyone know any farsi-book where the letters contain umlauts? I tried looking for them in Iran but couldn't find them. Maybe someone know of any you can get from amazon?

You know the symbols they teach you at first grade in Iran? So you're able to learn Farsi?

The red ones.

Thanks in advance.

I have seen a book in the Vancouver Public Library from Iran that had these, but I don't know what it was called. What are you needing the book for? I only ask because a good Persian-English dictionary should have a latin spelling of the pronunciation as well. I have "Persian-English English-Persian Learner's Dictionary" by Yavar Dehghani, and it a decent dictionary that contains most common vocabulary with phonetic pronunciation in the latin script.

[urbastar]

How do you say : "we are going to laugh" for example?

thx

[Indo-Iranian]

Can someone show me how to spell my name is Farsi? Let me know if you'd like to do it, and I'll PM you my name.

[SoroushPersepolisi]

Originally Posted by Indo-Iranian

Can someone show me how to spell my name is Farsi? Let me know if you'd like to do it, and I'll PM you my name.

i can

[Indo-Iranian]

Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi

i can

Ohh wow I didn't your post until now. FreddyB taught me Thanks, anyway!

[mopc]

I have a question especially for language experts like mercurybc and others, do you see any similarity between Persian and the Ossetian language, which is classified as an Iranian language? I've been to the Ossetian wikipedia and found that language extremely weird (I know a little Persian).

[arashmordad]

Originally Posted by mopc

I have a question especially for language experts like mercurybc and others, do you see any similarity between Persian and the Ossetian language, which is classified as an Iranian language? I've been to the Ossetian wikipedia and found that language extremely weird (I know a little Persian).

That's a very interesting question! I have been very interested with Ossetian once I learned it was an Iranian language. There are many similarities (especially vocabulary wise) between Ossetian and Persian. Ossetian though is more similar to Eastern Iranian languages, such as Pashto or Yaghnobi, rather than Western Iranian languages like Persian. Some cognates between Ossetian and Persian are (please forgive and correct me if I make a mistake):

OSSETIAN
PERSIAN
мах (mah) we
ما (maa) we

Дæ (dæ) you
تو (to, tu) you

Сымах (shymah) you
شما (shoma) you

Æз (æzh), Мæн (mæn) I
ad [O. Per.], من (mæn) I

Раст (rast) correct
راست (rast), درست (dorost) correct
цы (tsy) what
چه (che) what

Нæ (næ) no
نه (næ) no

Хурзæрин (khurzærin) sun
خورشید (khurshid) sun

нæуæг (næwæg) new
نو (no), نوین (novin, nowin) new

мæй (mæi) moon, month
ماه (mah) moon, month

мад (mad) mother
مادر (madær) mother

æхсæв (ækhsæv) night
شب (shæb) night

сырх (syrkh) red
سرخ (sorkh) red

бур (bur) yellow
بور (bur) blond

cay (sau) black
سیاه (siah) black, سایه (sayeh) shadow

тар (tar), тарбын (tarbyn) dark
تاریک (tarik) dark

Act (asht) eight
هشت (hæsht) eight

фондз (fondz) five
پنج (pænj) five

кæд (kæd) when
کی (key) when

мах стæм (mah stæm) we are
ما هستيم (maa hæstim) we are

Сымах раст стут (shymah rast stut) you are right
شما راست هستيد (shoma rast hæstid) you are right

[mopc]

Thats an excellent list, thank you! What about grammatical similarities?

[ozzy_fb]

What does the word 'jan' that you guys use after names mean? Is it some kind of term of endearment? Does that mean dear or what? If so, is it appropriate to use it for both genders? Is it formal or informal?

[Indo-Iranian]

Originally Posted by ozzy_fb

What does the word 'jan' that you guys use after names mean? Is it some kind of term of endearment? Does that mean dear or what? If so, is it appropriate to use it for both genders? Is it formal or informal?

It's used amongst relatives and close friends. It's more informal than, say, "agha", which is more for respect. Jan emphasizes endearment and your closeness to the individual. I don't think you'd use it on the opposite sex, though.