How to Speak Persian

[arashmordad]

just to let people know, let me show the Indo-European Language Family (one of the largest Language Family in the World):

Indo-European:

Germanic
(English, German, Dutch, Danish, etc.)

Celtic
(Gaelic, Manx, Irish Gaeilge, etc.)

Italic
-Romance = (Latin, Italian, Spanish, etc.)
-Osco-Umbrian [Extinct]

Hellenic
(Greek, Tsakonian, etc.)

Balto-Slavic
-Baltic = (Latvian, Lithuanian)
-Slavic = (Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, Croatian, etc.)

Indo-Iranian
-Indic (Indo-Aryan) = (Hindi, Punjabi, Urdu, Kashmiri, etc.)
-Iranic (Iranian) = (Farsi, Kurdish, Pashto, Ossetian, etc.)
-Nuristani= (Ashkun, etc.)

Albanian
(Albanian)

Armenian
(Armenian)

Paleo-Balkan [Extinct]
-Daco-Thracian = (Thracian, Dacian)[Extinct]
-Illiyrian[extinct]
-Phrygian[extinct]
-Paionian[extinct]

Anatolian [Extinct]
(Hittite, Luwian, etc) [all extinct]

Tocharian [Extinct]
(Tocharian, Yue-Zhi) [all extinct]

Messapian [Extinct]

Liburnian [Extinct]

Lusitanian [Extinct]

Venetic [Extinct]


Orange = Countries that speak an Indo-European language as a main language
Yellow = Countries that have a IE speaking minority or with a big IE influence, but do not speak a main IE lang.
Grey = Countries that do not speak a IE language (or have a very tiny IE minority)

[socrates#1fan]

Originally Posted by arashmordad

Lol, I see. I think that would be better though, as I am no professional. And yes, both english and farsi are of the Indo-European language family, but english is apart of the germanic branch and farsi is apart of the indo-iranian branch, so you will see a lot of similarities.

How cool.
Yes, English and German are very alike.

[arashmordad]

Originally Posted by socrates#1fan

How cool.
Yes, English and German are very alike.

You can see the chart I just put up to see how all the languages are related.

[arashmordad]

Hey guys, sorry for my hiatus, lets cont. with Farsi.

to have - "dashtæn"

mæn daræm - i have

to dari - you have

shoma darid - you have [formal]

an daræd - he/she/that has

ma darim - we have

anha darænd - they have

[arashmordad]

Now we are going to get into action verbs. There are two types of action verbs, which I will explain in the next post. Now I will show how to conjugate "to do."

With most action verbs, when you conjugate them you put a "mi-" in front of the verb.

to do - "kærdæn"

mæn mikonæm - i do

to mikoni - you do

shoma mikonid - you do [formal]

an mikonæd - he/she/that does

ma mikonim - we do

anha mikonænd - they do

[arashmordad]

Like i said in the post before, there are two types of action verbs. This is where Farsi can become weird and confusing.
There are verbs where they do not conjugate them selves so you have to add another action verb (such as "kærdæn") to the verb. Then there are the verbs that can conjugate by themselves and do not need "kærdæn" to complete the verb, most of these verbs have "-dæn/-tæn" at the end of it.

Example:

Verbs that conjugate themselves:

pokhtæn = to bake/cook

khandæn = to read, to sing, to recite

neveshtæn = to write

khabidæn = to sleep

khordæn = to eat


Verbs that need "Kærdæn":

shena kærdæn = to swim

ashpæzi kærdæn = to cook

bazi kærdæn = to play

dorost kærdæn = to make/build

[s22.travian.ae]

Dorud, nam e mæn s22.travian.ae æst.

Farsi khub æst !!

Please post more Persian !! sepas gozar æstæm .

[Metsada]

Originally Posted by arashmordad

q - a hard "g" from throat

I wonder how this sounds. When I listen to Farsi, I don't hear very strong throat sounds. Thank you for creating this nice thread.

[alitezar]

I don't know how to write how it sounds Sorry

Originally Posted by s22.travian.ae

Dorud, nam e mæn s22.travian.ae æst.

Farsi khub æst !!

Please post more Persian !! sepas gozar æstæm .

Very good job

Afærin= Bravo

[Metsada]

no problem

[Daguy]

Originally Posted by Metsada

I wonder how this sounds. When I listen to Farsi, I don't hear very strong throat sounds. Thank you for creating this nice thread.

In modern Persian the Arabic sound known as "qaf" is largely assimilated with the sound "gh" which is a sound similar, but not identical to, the "r" in french.

It is a sound found almost exclusively in Arabic loan words, and to my understanding a few native words which borrowed the sound from Arabic.

In some speakers the sound is partially retained, but among Iranians this is applied only to some words, and in many speakers the merger has completely occured. So in reality, if you never learn how to say this sound it doesn't really matter, as most Persian speakers in Iran do not pronounce it anyways.

In other dialects, such as Dari (Persian spoken in Afghanistan) it is more likely to be pronounced as in Arabic (like a K deep in the throat) as their style of speech is much more archaic (i.e. the way Persian is written, and how people spoke it in the 19th century). The Persian language has changed greatly in the past 100 or so years in Iran in terms of pronunciation and grammar. In particular the construction of verbal suffixes, which have been greatly reduced.

Example: Mæn be khuneye dustæm mirævæm.

Translation: I am going to my friend's house.

Becomes generally in colloquial Persian:

Mæn miræm khuneye dustæm.

As can be seen the word "mirævæm" ("am going", or "I am going" if you drop the pronoun "mæn" or "I" as would usually occur) becomes "miræm", with a shortened verbal suffix. Also the word order has changed from Subject-Object-Verb, as is traditionally structured in most Indo-Iranian languages, to that of Subject-Verb-Object, as in English and Mandarin Chinese for example.

This reduction occurs in virtually all the compound verbs except in writing and extremely formal situations: the use of "mirævæm" in normal conversation would sound somewhat strange in Tehran for example.


P.S. A little side note, the origin of the word "Farsi" comes from "Parsi". When the Arabs invaded Iran and brought Islam with them and added thousands of words to the Persian language, many words lost the sound "P", as Arabic has no P sound, so the Arabs called the language "Farsi" instead of Parsi. (Other examples: Esfæhan from "Espæhan", Sefid from "Sepid").

Thus it is technically incorrect to call the language "Farsi" in English, even though this usage is more and more common, and in some ways seen as a political statement.

It is essentially like calling French "Francais" or German "Deutsch" when you are speaking English. The proper name for the language in English is Persian, as it is derrived from the Indo-Aryan root of the ancient name for the language, "Parsi".

[Metsada]

thanks for the info, I didn't know you were Iranian or spoke Persian.

[arashmordad]

Thank you every body for your help! Very well done s22.travian.ae. Thank you Daguy, you a exactly right. In modern persian (tehrani dialect), "æst" acts exactly like the french "est" as it is replaced with "e" many times; something with which i will get to later.

Concerning the "gh" sound, i actually believe that it came into the persian from aramaic because looking at old pahlavi it seems that they used the "gh" sound also, but please do not quote me on this.

Also correct with the "p" --> "f" transition when arabic rule came on to persian. But that isn't the only transition. "Iran" is also a mispronunciation of what should be called "Eyran." When farsi started using arabic script, to write "Eyran" Iranians needed put the letters "alef" (ا‎) and "ye" (ى) to create the "ey" sound. The problem is though that, in arabic, when "alef" and "ye" اي are put togethor, they make the "EE" sound, that is how "Eyran" became "Iran." ايران.
In my opinion, I think "Eyran" ssounds cooler :P .

[Daguy]

Originally Posted by Metsada

thanks for the info, I didn't know you were Iranian or spoke Persian.

I'm not not Iranian, but I do know a little Persian

I've studied several languages, and my best friend for close to 4 years was from Iran, so I picked up on some of it.

Oh and sorry Arash, I think I was not quite so clear on one point. The "qaf" is generally not found in native Persian words, but the "gh" undoubtably is. I'm not sure where and when "gh" entered the language, as to it's entry from Aramaic you could be right.

[arashmordad]

NORUZZZZ!!!!!!
Norouz is the iranian new year and the most important holiday of Iran and other Iranian peoples. It is celebrated on the first day of spring. At the exact moment, exact second of that it turns spring, it becomes the new iranian year. It is not only celebrated in Iran, but in other countries such as: Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, and areas such as Kurdistan, the Pamirs of China, and also in the Caucasus and Eastern Europe.

It's an ancient Holiday coming from ancient Iran and celebrated by ancient Indo-Iranian peoples, and was the most important celebration for them. It is a symbol of rebirth and everything anew.

Norouz Literally means "New day," "no, nav, nov = new; ruz = day."
Norouz can also be pronounced as "Navrouz, Nevrouz, Navaroza, Navasal Novruz, etc."

Ways to greet for the new year are:
sal e no mobaræk = Happy new year (Lit. Year of new congrats)
sal e no khojæste-bad = Happy New year
Noruz Mobaræk = Happy Norouz
Noruz Piruz = Noruz Victory
Norouz khojæste-bad = Happy norouz
Norouz shad-bad = Happy norouz

So to everyone Norouz Khojæste-bad, and hopefully everyone has a beautiful new iranian year

[socrates#1fan]

Originally Posted by arashmordad

So to everyone Norouz Khojæste-bad, and hopefully everyone has a beautiful new iranian year

This may sound ignorant, do Iranians use a different calendar than it being 2008?
Sal e no mobaræk!
I'm so glad Spring is here!

[arashmordad]

Originally Posted by socrates#1fan

This may sound ignorant, do Iranians use a different calendar than it being 2008?
Sal e no mobaræk!
I'm so glad Spring is here!

Yes, Iranians do use a different calendar as their main calendar, but they also use the Gregorian (western) and Islamic calendars also. The Iranian calendar, as with the Gregorian calendar yet unlike the Islamic calendar, is a solar calendar ( the Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar ). It starts at the first moment of spring and ends at the last moment of winter.

The Months are:
Færværdin - 21 March to 20 April
Ordibehesht - 21 April to 21 May
Khordad - 22 May to 21 June
Tir - 22 June to 22 July
Mordad - 23 July to 22 August
Shæhrivær - 23 August to 22 September
Mehr - 23 September to 22 October
Aban - 23 October to 21 November
Azær - 22 November to 21 December
Dey - 22 December to 20 January
Bæhmæn - 21 January to 19 February
Espænd (Esfænd) - 20 February to 20 March

Seasons:
Bæhar - spring
Tabestan - summer
Paiz - fall/autumn
Zemestan - winter

[Yapachoo]

What a great idea! you guys will be regretting making this thread after i've finished with you all, i have my exams in May :P

I have a question about bayad (باید). I always thought bayad was just bayad but apparently if you change the conjugation of the verb it can mean supposed to.... or should have done... etc. However the explanation of the examples in the excercise is pretty poor.

شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان بگویید
This is the only use of bayad i know properly at the moment.

شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان می گفتید
This confuses me a little, does it mean you were supposed to tell your dad about the matter/whatever?

شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان گفته باشید
and this? You should have??

Cheers in advance!

ps this is a useful dictionary online. It isn't amazing but it's better than nowt! www.farsidic.com

[arashmordad]

Originally Posted by Yapachoo

What a great idea! you guys will be regretting making this thread after i've finished with you all, i have my exams in May :P

I have a question about bayad (باید). I always thought bayad was just bayad but apparently if you change the conjugation of the verb it can mean supposed to.... or should have done... etc. However the explanation of the examples in the excercise is pretty poor.

شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان بگویید
This is the only use of bayad i know properly at the moment.

شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان می گفتید
This confuses me a little, does it mean you were supposed to tell your dad about the matter/whatever?

شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان گفته باشید
and this? You should have??

Cheers in advance!

ps this is a useful dictionary online. It isn't amazing but it's better than nowt! www.farsidic.com

Ah, this is another example where farsi can be a little weird. You are right that it depends on conjugation but also emphasis on the word "bayæd."

Take your first example:شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان بگویید
With out emphasis on "bayæd" it translates to: "You should tell your father about the problem." But with emphasis on "bayæd," as in: "shoma BAYÆD be pedæretan beguyid," translates to: "you HAVE TO tell your father about the problem."

As for your second example:شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان می گفتید
It really can translate into both "should have" and "supposed to," but I would say more "should have." A better way to say "supposed to" is: "Lazem bud" or "Ghærar bud ke be pedæretan migoftid."

And the third one:شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان گفته باشید
"You must have told your father about the problem"

I hope this helps

[Yapachoo]

Originally Posted by arashmordad

Ah, this is another example where farsi can be a little weird. You are right that it depends on conjugation but also emphasis on the word "bayæd."

Take your first example:شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان بگویید
With out emphasis on "bayæd" it translates to: "You should tell your father about the problem." But with emphasis on "bayæd," as in: "shoma BAYÆD be pedæretan beguyid," translates to: "you HAVE TO tell your father about the problem."

As for your second example:شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان می گفتید
It really can translate into both "should have" and "supposed to," but I would say more "should have." A better way to say "supposed to" is: "Lazem bud" or "Ghærar bud ke be pedæretan migoftid."

And the third one:شما باید موضوع را به پدرتان گفته باشید
"You must have told your father about the problem"

I hope this helps

dastetoon dard nakone arashmordad kheili mamnun!