daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas

Stadiums and Sport Arenas » Completed | Under Construction | Proposed | Demolished



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: -
- 0 0%
- 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 9th, 2009, 10:33 PM   #81
CharlieP
Tax avoider
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 23,752
Likes (Received): 1973

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilF View Post
Charlie;

I initially agreed with your assessment here but having thought about this, and noticed a few things while looking at a few pictures of Murrayfield, I'm not sure I do agree.

First of all, there was no sprint track in front of the old West stand. The sprints at Murrayfield were, generally, run on tracks painted onto the pitch. I can see no reason why this would change with the redesign of the West stand - it makes that side of the stadium less desirable to sit in for a majority of the events held at the ground in order to facilitate an incredibly minor function of the stadium that wasn't directly accommodated before.
Ah, OK. I assumed it would have been some kind of cinder track.

Quote:
You are right - the North and South stands only go as far West as the touchline on that side of the pitch, but the quadrants that join the East stand to the North and South stands begins a few metres (maybe as many as five metres) in from the touchline on the east side of the stadium.



I know this is the pitch in a football configuration but since the rugby pitch tends to be two metres wider than a football pitch, you should definitely be able to see what I mean; given that the East stand was already in place when the North and South stands and their quadrants were designed, this would suggest, to me, that at least some of the distance between the West stand and the west touchline, can be explained by the width of the previously existing North and South stands.
I see what you're saying, but when there was an overall "masterplan" for Murrayfield (I remember seeing an artist's impression of the whole stadium before they started on the ends) it seems a bit perverse that the North and South Stands "force" the West Stand further from the pitch, when they could have built them the right shape to start with. Then again, the design of the North Stand is quite different to that of the West (the vomitories are closer together in the upper tier and higher in the lower) so it could be that the original intention was for a stand that hugged the pitch a lot more closely, but it was decided to change the design to increase capacity by fitting more seats in the corners.

Quote:
You also mention that the gaps between the lower tiers of the North & South stands and the West stand is suggestive of a deliberate attempt to set the stand back from the pitch. I'm not so sure; if they were a deliberate attempt to set the West stand back from the pitch, then they wouldn't follow the curvature of the stadium bowl but the gaps do. In other words, it isn't a straight line from the last seat in the North & South stands to the first seat in the West stand. With this being the case, I think these gaps are nothing more than pitch access.
Ah, you misunderstand, all I was saying is that because the gaps are there, you can see exactly where the North and South Stands were built to - if the lower tier was continuous it wouldn't be so obvious.

Quote:
image hosted on flickr


Notice, for example, that the curve of the upper tier begins right where the North and South stands end. In other words, I think the way the North and South stands were designed and built, there was always going to be a larger gap between the West stand and the touchline as there was between the East stand and the touchline.

That said, I'm not sure that this would account for the size of the gap in question. The most easterly part of the straight sections of the North and South stands are, at most, about 10m further west than the front row of the East stand. The gap between the most westerly seats in the North and South stands and the front row of the West stand is clearly much larger than that, so perhaps there is some other reason - your idea of a complete bowl may make sense but I'm not so sure.

Another thing that this thread hasn't touched on is that the front row of the West stand doesn't run parallel to the touchline; it angles away from the pitch as it approaches the half-way line. I see absolutely no aesthetic reason for this and it could only have made the internal design of the stand more difficult than it otherwise would have been, so I think this may suggest that there were problems with joining the West stand to the North and South stands that led to compromises in the way the West stand was built - perhaps suggestive that, had the front row of the West stand been kept parallel to the pitch, it would have had to be set even further back?

To me, the only satisfactory conclusions are either to do with problems joining the existing and new structures, or that there was a plan to move the pitch West as you suggest. The later is actually seeming very possible to me but, given the cantilevered nature of the West stand would probably not have needed such a large gap:

The maximum distance from the front row of the West stand to the touchline is 15m and the minimum distance about 12m. The East stand is about 31m from front to back, the West stand is about 52m but the actual footprint is no greater than the East stand because of the cantilevered upper tier.

The distance between the back of the East stand and the steps down the hill is about 10m, which would have been plenty of room to create access to the upper tier of the new East stand in the same way as access to the upper tier of the West stand, in my opinion. It certainly wouldn't require the extra 12m-15m provided by the athletics track and new West stand. It doesn't make sense, to me at least, to built the West stand so far back from the pitch when, (a) there were never any definite plans to rebuild the East stand and, (b) that extra space may never have been necessary in the first place. So, I'm not so sure that is valid either.
I'm really not sure - it was just a bit of conjecture with a lot of wishful thinking involved (mainly because I find the joins in the East Stand corners so jarring). One thing I have spotted though is that the vomitories in the North Stand are exactly symmetrical around the central ones (the layout of the seats hides this a bit), so the pitch is about 3 metres east of the centre line. Not a great deal, mind you, and if the stadium was "completed" with a mirror image of the West Stand, there would be a sizeable gap on both sides!

Maybe the only way to answer the question is to ask the architects!
__________________
This signature is socialist and un-American.
CharlieP no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 3rd, 2009, 11:40 AM   #82
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

Numbers I'd just found....

The Six Nations Championship has the largest average attendance (per game in history) of International competitions :



(sorry, didn't find any English version)

Translation of Competitions' names :

1 Six Nations (rugby union)
2 FIFA WC
3 Tri-Nations (rugby union)
4 IRB WC (rugby union)
5 UEFA Euro
6 Tri-Nations (rugby league)
7 FIFA women's WC
8 MLB world baseball classic
9 ICC WC (cricket)
10 UEFA women's Euro

Last edited by parcdesprinces; February 28th, 2010 at 08:12 AM.
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2009, 01:24 PM   #83
Luke80
Registered User
 
Luke80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 774
Likes (Received): 4

Millennium is the best for me. Best atmosphere.

pdp, when the new Landsdowne Road (Aviva Stadium or whatever) is finished, the average attendance will fall because for each Ireland home game, you are losing 33,500 seats. Would it still be no. 1 in 2010 or 2011? I have my doubts because the WC in SA has some big stadiums!
Luke80 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2009, 01:28 PM   #84
SSE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 124
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke80 View Post
Millennium is the best for me. Best atmosphere.

pdp, when the new Landsdowne Road (Aviva Stadium or whatever) is finished, the average attendance will fall because for each Ireland home game, you are losing 33,500 seats. Would it still be no. 1 in 2010 or 2011? I have my doubts because the WC in SA has some big stadiums!
It's still a big achievement, especially as it happens every year as opposed to every four.

The Millenium Stadium is brilliant, and the atmosphere is superb during big games.
SSE no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2009, 07:06 AM   #85
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

The Six : (updated list of 2010)

Dublin, Ireland
Croke Park
, during the rebuilding of Lansdowne Road (2007-2011)
82,300 Seats

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



Edinburgh, Scotland
Murrayfield
67,800 Seats


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



Cardiff, Wales
Millennium Stadium
74,500 Seats


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



London, England
Twickenham Stadium
82,000 Seats


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



Paris, France
Stade de France
81,300 Seats


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



Roma, Italy
Stadio Flaminio
32,000 seats


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

Last edited by parcdesprinces; March 3rd, 2010 at 10:50 AM.
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2010, 08:27 AM   #86
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke80 View Post
Would it still be no. 1 in 2010 or 2011?
We are in 2010, and it's still the number 1 !!!!!!
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2010, 03:04 PM   #87
likasz
Registered User
 
likasz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,380
Likes (Received): 41

Quote:
The Six Nations Championship has the largest average attendance (per game in history) of International competitions
Rugby is very popular in Great Britain, Ireland, France and Italy but in most countries this sport is not big or even doesn't exist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Ru..._qualification

The attedance figures are very low.Only in Poland it's 5000-6000 fans per match but rugby in Poland isn't popular at all.

Last edited by likasz; February 28th, 2010 at 04:07 PM.
likasz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2010, 03:27 AM   #88
Gadiri
Registered User
 
Gadiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Paris-Agadir-Guelmim
Posts: 52,646
Likes (Received): 6942

Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
[B][SIZE="3"]

Roma, Italy
Stadio Flaminio
24,900 Seats


image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr
Stadio Flaminio seems to be bigger year after year.
In 2009 there was bigger stand behind goal (picture 3, picture 1 and 2 in 2008).
And this year, there is a bigger stand in front of the main stand.

The capacity is maybe of 30,000 seats now.

As anyone a new picture of the stadium and the new capacity ?
Gadiri no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2010, 03:51 AM   #89
RMB2007
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,506
Likes (Received): 15611

The attendance for the Italy v England game was 31,876.

[IMG]http://i49.************/sztybs.jpg[/IMG]

Last edited by RMB2007; March 1st, 2010 at 04:03 AM.
RMB2007 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2010, 10:40 AM   #90
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

I think it's time for a new Flaminio..... (45/50K ??)

Temporary stands have served their time, IMO !
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2010, 11:49 AM   #91
Federicoft
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 12,607
Likes (Received): 4339

There are plans for an expansion but the city of Rome and the heirs of the architect who designed the stadium are opposing it, plus there are many legal hurldes to overcome since the complex is preserved as historical monument.
Federicoft no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2010, 03:30 PM   #92
likasz
Registered User
 
likasz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,380
Likes (Received): 41

The new national stadium (cap.55.000) in Warsaw will have enough space for rugby pitch and I hope someday rugby will be huge in Poland but IRB doesn't care about popularity in other countries.They don't support national federations.
likasz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2010, 08:09 PM   #93
romano89
Go let it out
 
romano89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pisa [x] Roma []
Posts: 1,311
Likes (Received): 1457

Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
I think it's time for a new Flaminio..... (45/50K ??)

Temporary stands have served their time, IMO !
i hope so!! flaminio is quite miserable confronted to the other 5 stadiums
__________________
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.
romano89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 04:06 AM   #94
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

Quote:
Originally Posted by likasz View Post
but IRB doesn't care about popularity in other countries.They don't support national federations.
That's not totally true, especially since the World Cup 2019 will be in Japan which is not a big rugby nation and it will be the first non-Six/Tri nations to host.

The choice was made and supported by the IRB which, today, wants to export rugby toward new markets/countries (especially since IRB has a French president)
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 06:45 AM   #95
TreeBeard
Who yeah gonna call?
 
TreeBeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: A Van down by the river
Posts: 110
Likes (Received): 0

Let's say there was no such thing as NA football and everyone from Canada and the USA instead had to play rugby. Do you think that would change the global positioning of the sport in the world?

I am not trying to undermine the current top rugby countries in the world, but all the top talent in NA goes towards football. I know at my University the stronger more athletic players where all in football and the rugby team was a niche sport.

I guess it is all a moot point, however it would be very interesting to see how the rugby power ranking would be if the United States and Canada put the players, money, and effort into rugby that they do into football.
__________________
What do American's really think of Canada? They don't

You live by the words you choose
TreeBeard no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #96
likasz
Registered User
 
likasz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,380
Likes (Received): 41

Quote:
That's not totally true, especially since the World Cup 2019 will be in Japan which is not a big rugby nation and it will be the first non-Six/Tri nations to host.
But Japan played in all World Cups so it's not a new country in the world of rugby.

Quote:
The choice was made and supported by the IRB which, today, wants to export rugby toward new markets/countries (especially since IRB has a French president)
Where popularity of rugby is growing (outside the 9 nations)?Maybe in Georgia, Namibia and Tonga but its population is very small.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Popularity of rugby in Australia and New Zealand is on the wane:

Australia:
http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/rugby-l...tralia-3068434

New Zealand:

Last edited by likasz; March 4th, 2010 at 03:52 PM.
likasz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 09:11 PM   #97
CharlieP
Tax avoider
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 23,752
Likes (Received): 1973

Quote:
Originally Posted by likasz View Post
Where popularity of rugby is growing (outside the 9 nations)?Maybe in Georgia, Namibia and Tonga but its population is very small.
Russia (who have just qualified for the Rugby World Cup).

Kazakhstan (who are bidding to hold the Women's World Cup in 2014).

Kenya (who are now regularly successful on the Sevens circuit).

The popularity of Sevens in particularly should shoot up now it's an Olympic sport.
__________________
This signature is socialist and un-American.
CharlieP no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #98
likasz
Registered User
 
likasz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,380
Likes (Received): 41

Quote:
Russia (who have just qualified for the Rugby World Cup).
They qualified but they played for empty stands and I doubt if any Russian TV showed at live their matches.

Russia - Romania


Russia - Portugal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpM1iONqcnM


Quote:
Kazakhstan (who are bidding to hold the Women's World Cup in 2014).
It does not mean that rugby is popular in this country.For Women's Rugby World Cup you need just a few pitches.
Quote:
Kenya (who are now regularly successful on the Sevens circuit).

The popularity of Sevens in particularly should shoot up now it's an
Olympic sport.

7s are very good experiment but we have to wait at least 6 years for the results.
Baseball and softball were Olympic sports but they are still niche sports in most countries.

Last edited by likasz; March 4th, 2010 at 11:02 PM.
likasz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2010, 04:13 AM   #99
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

You forgot Argentina..... Which became certainly one of the strongest nations in the world, even stronger than some of the Six Nations such as Scotland, Wales or Italy !

The IRB is even thinking to integrate them into the Tri-Nations or into the Six-Nations (because most of the "Pumas" play in European clubs, especially French ones).


About popularity of the "Pumas" in Argentina:


Pumas vs France


Pumas vs Ireland


---------------------------


Edit :

I also forgot to mention Spain (Basque Country) !
The French Basque clubs are accustomed to cross the border and to play in Donostia/San Sebastian, for their big Top 14 and H cup home games :






Last edited by parcdesprinces; March 5th, 2010 at 07:38 AM.
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2010, 04:40 AM   #100
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
how the rugby power ranking would be if the United States and Canada put the players, money, and effort into rugby that they do into football.
Take a look at the results of the early 20th century and you will know, especially during the first olympiads (The US rugby team won 2 gold medals in 1920 and 1924, which makes the American team the most successful one in the Rugby union's olympic history ) !
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
rugby

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu