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Old August 6th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #381
jsiren
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post

Hi Jsiren, are you from Finland?

If so, do you have any photos of the VR Cargo trains that carry lorry trailers?
Yes, I'm from the northern parts of Finland, the city of Oulu. I sometimes also visit northern Sweden.

Here's one shot of a trailer train:


The lorries and trailers are on flat cars equipped with wheel blocks and drive-through ramps. The vehicles are driven on and off. This one's emptier than usual; I've seen trains packed end to end with lorries and trailers. Note that a vehicle (lorry or trailer) may also be parked over the gap between two flat cars, so the use of space on these trains can be very efficient.

Here's another in black&white:

Original location: http://vaunut.org/kuva/56499

More pictures at http://juhanan.kuvat.fi/.

Last edited by jsiren; August 6th, 2009 at 04:23 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 01:12 PM   #382
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Thanks Jsiren.

For me it's weird that a search on the internet does not produce many - in fact, any - photos of these VR Cargo trains. Certainly if they do exist, they're hard to find.

In contrast, one can find many, many images of the piggyback trains that run across the standard gauge routes in Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland/Austria and Northern Italy.

With these trains, VR Cargo, is setting a great example to what is technically possible throughout the rest of the broad gauge system, across Russia and the CIS.

I'd have therefore thought VR Cargo would promote these services more.

Does anyone know why these trains operate just within Finland, as oppose to also running to somewhere like Moscow?
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Old August 6th, 2009, 01:34 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
I donīt count a very narrow line that runs across the roof a ugly designing, if I did, I would not like it...

The roof design in a 170 and 172 is the same as any other English train, slightly curved but not too high...

"Why can't you just say you like a train because it appeals to you?" It does...but for the same reason that all English trains do...I never go to another country and think, "oooh what nice looking trains" because to me, they all look weird and in many cases just plain ugly, which was the point of this whole thread, I wanted to see what other people think...

...and...what other people think about English train designs...
Heaven's sake, it's like you haven't read a single word I wrote.

I have better things to do with my time. All the best
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Old August 6th, 2009, 01:45 PM   #384
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By the way Jsiren, you may wish to take a look at the thread 'CEE container terminals'.

This is run by someone from the website www.railwaymarket.eu.

As it covers CEE territory, some of which is broad gauge, it may be good to show off the piggyback trains on there, given that these may possibly be the future of intermodal transport in the CIS and Russia.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 01:54 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
Thanks Jsiren.

For me it's weird that a search on the internet does not produce many - in fact, any - photos of these VR Cargo trains. Certainly if they do exist, they're hard to find.

In contrast, one can find many, many images of the piggyback trains that run across the standard gauge routes in Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland/Austria and Northern Italy.

With these trains, VR Cargo, is setting a great example to what is technically possible throughout the rest of the broad gauge system, across Russia and the CIS.

I'd have therefore thought VR Cargo would promote these services more.

Does anyone know why these trains operate just within Finland, as oppose to also running to somewhere like Moscow?
Well, see my pages for starters Looks like I'll need to start adding English captions!

What has prevented VR Cargo from offering more eastward services is firstly a lack of track capacity - and our darling Parliament has been very reluctant to finance any capacity increases in the recent years. It's been a struggle to get sufficient funding to keep the existing network functional. However, the western main line, which is the north-south artery, is currently being rebuilt and double tracked in some critical places. The goal is to make it at least double tracked from Helsinki to Oulu, some 700 km. Don't forget that equal capacity is also required on the Russian side, as well as a terminal for loading and unloading.

Also, some mining operations in Lapland require completely new lines to be built, and put capacity pressures on existing lines as well. It has even been suggested that a broad gauge line be built to the Norwegian coast of the Arctic Sea as an extension of the Finnish network. This would enable Chinese and Russian exporters to ship goods directly to the east coast of the Americas without having to pass through the Panama canal. This does, however, depend on the capacity of the Trans-Siberian line...

VR Cargo does promote the trailer trains to domestic carriers, and they're very popular; hauling a lorry by train overnight is faster than driving, and it saves a driver's wages for the night. However, track capacity sets a limit to how many trains you can carry. The railway does what it can to speed up the trailer trains: they run at night and get top timetable priority, making their run almost non-stop; their top speed is high, 120 km/h if memory serves; lorries are limited to 89 km/h on the road.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 01:58 PM   #386
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Thanks for that.

I get a hint in your words that the Russian rails which border with Finland are not exactly high-performance, high-capacity lines.

Am I right to think, therefore, that it is faster to send trailers all the way by road to Moscow, than ship them piggyback style on trains?
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Old August 6th, 2009, 02:13 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
Thanks for that.

I get a hint in your words that the Russian rails which border with Finland are not exactly high-performance, high-capacity lines.

Am I right to think, therefore, that it is faster to send trailers all the way by road to Moscow, than ship them piggyback style on trains?
To start a regular service between Finland and Russia is not just a matter of agreeing on schedule. Only specific series of rolling stock (mostly Russian) are allowed for interchange, and thus far no trailer cars are included. Therefore, a new series of trailer cars would have to be built, equipped with SA-3 couplers and Russian-compatible wheel profiles and brake systems; Russian staff would have to be trained to properly operate the cars, load and unload the lorries and trailers; a terminal (or several terminals) would have to be built in Russia where loading and unloading could take place. (BTW, the SA-3 coupler is standard equipment in Finnish locomotives.)

All this is certainly possible, and not a problem by any measure, but it only means that starting an intermodal service to Moscow would take months instead of days. Containers and new cars are already being carried by train, as much as track capacity allows. There are also three daily passenger trains between Finland and Russia. Other goods being transported are iron ore and pulp wood.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 02:19 PM   #388
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Thanks again.

You say, "Russian-compatible wheel profiles". As the gauge is the same, are not the wheel profiles also?
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Old August 6th, 2009, 04:30 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
You say, "Russian-compatible wheel profiles". As the gauge is the same, are not the wheel profiles also?
No, to my knowledge there's a difference between the Finnish and Russian wheel profiles, as rail and points geometry is slightly different both sides of the border. A mutually tolerable compromise profile exists and is used in interchange service.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 02:31 PM   #390
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Mickey Mouse!

image hosted on flickr
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Old August 8th, 2009, 02:43 PM   #391
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Mickey Mouse!

image hosted on flickr
Is that like a childrens train? lol
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Old August 8th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #392
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It's the monorail to Tokyo Disneyland and Tokyo DisneySea.
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Old August 8th, 2009, 09:36 PM   #393
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It's the monorail to Tokyo Disneyland and Tokyo DisneySea.
oooh i get it now Mickey Mouse lol...not as odd as i first thought
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Old August 9th, 2009, 04:01 PM   #394
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What ruins most british trains for me are the tacky paint jobs. Choose one or maybe two colours not all of them!
I agree with that, well, for some of the franchises anyway.

I especially dislike the CrossCountry livery:
image hosted on flickr
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Old August 9th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #395
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I agree with that, well, for some of the franchises anyway.

I especially dislike the CrossCountry livery:
image hosted on flickr
Its not too bad...I thin the worst was the old FGW...(I love the current one though) The old one had too many lines, the doors alone were white, blue and red...white with a blue box fading over it, a red line across it and a blue band up the side, and that was just the doors!





The current one is nice though...



The ex Virgin livery was...vile...hated the dark grey bands as each end and the over use of red...the white lines are even worse, too strong!



the current Virgin Livery is better, dnt like the door stripes though...

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Old August 9th, 2009, 08:25 PM   #396
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If you are going to mention that it is the OLD FGW livery, why not also mention that it is the OLD Virgin livery you have posted? Trying to mislead?
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Old August 10th, 2009, 12:32 AM   #397
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If you are going to mention that it is the OLD FGW livery, why not also mention that it is the OLD Virgin livery you have posted? Trying to mislead?
I did...I put the past and present of both...
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Old August 10th, 2009, 12:35 AM   #398
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I did...I put the past and present of both...
No, you edited the post after my comment.
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Old August 10th, 2009, 01:24 AM   #399
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No, you edited the post after my comment.
I didnt its a train livery lol

I think the current first livery looks best on the Class 170

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Old August 11th, 2009, 03:48 PM   #400
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I didnt its a train livery lol

I think the current first livery looks best on the Class 170

Thats a horrible livery, its to much. They need to clean it up.

Some examples of nice clean liveries:



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