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Old August 12th, 2009, 12:40 AM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlis View Post
Thats a horrible livery, its to much. They need to clean it up.

Some examples of nice clean liveries:

That is actually quite nice, a bit plain maybe, but clean looking! In england I'm used to everything being all bright hehe
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Old August 12th, 2009, 06:49 PM   #402
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The old blue X2000 livery was way better imo.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 08:49 PM   #403
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Indeed, this is just too plain again.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 12:30 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
The old blue X2000 livery was way better imo.
The old livery was from the early 90s and therefor looked therafter. It was dated so is the interior of the x2000 trains, light wood etc. The new one is both modern and a step back to classic clean designs, no silly stripes.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 11:28 PM   #405
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I never liked the Central Trains livery...
I didn't like the green...

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Old August 13th, 2009, 11:47 PM   #406
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And Central Trains were generally crap too.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 08:32 PM   #407
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For something bright that will stand out...

Class 507 running with Mersey rail

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Old August 15th, 2009, 11:44 PM   #408
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Yellow and a Orange stripe, I guess they wanted to make it very clear that Mersey rail is operated by the Dutch Railways "NS" and the British Serco.

Oh, and the train is butt ugly btw.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 11:49 PM   #409
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Quote:
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Yellow and a Orange stripe, I guess they wanted to make it very clear that Mersey rail is operated by the Dutch Railways "NS" and the British Serco.

Oh, and the train is butt ugly btw.
All UK stock carries a thin orange stripe at roof level - look back through the thread It is the height nobody should go above when under 25kv electric wires.

That livery is based on the local PTE's colours, nothing else.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 12:07 AM   #410
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Wow, I never noticed those orange stripes, but it does fit a Nedrail train.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 02:45 AM   #411
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I like the National Express livery...

Here it is on a MK3 coach...



Southwest Trains brighten up your day!

Here is it on a Class 450...



I was also a fan of the old Midland Main Line livery...

Seen here on a nice Class 170

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Old August 16th, 2009, 04:13 AM   #412
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Quote:
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I like the National Express livery...

Here it is on a MK3 coach...


Ahh, that is a very nice livery. Very modern.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 03:51 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
Whats wrong with the MK3s? They are the most basic and well thought out design shape a train could have...
A true high speed coach that has:

1- tiny windows in the gangway doors
2- OUTSIDE opening side doors
3- not enough luggage spaces
4- ...


... too many compromising features to name them all.

But as I said ... attach them to a pair of vallentas (or even disguised as "classic" stock on the back of a Brush/EE) and I concede that they "pass as pleasant looking".

And by the way ... all train cars should look a lot more like the UIC X/Y stock than whatever cames out of the ultra restrictive british loading gauge.

Quote:
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You don't think the class 92s or 60s are good looking beasts?

And you only think the class 47s are just about ok?

Perhaps I have a gene within me that favours machines that have sprung from the Brush works...
In terms of looks you just nammed possibly the two worse looking BRITISH ENGINEERED/DESIGNED/BUILD/EMPLOYED/IMPORTED locomotives (60 + 92).
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Old August 17th, 2009, 09:20 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
A true high speed coach that has:

1- tiny windows in the gangway doors
2- OUTSIDE opening side doors
3- not enough luggage spaces
4- ...


... too many compromising features to name them all.

But as I said ... attach them to a pair of vallentas (or even disguised as "classic" stock on the back of a Brush/EE) and I concede that they "pass as pleasant looking".

And by the way ... all train cars should look a lot more like the UIC X/Y stock than whatever cames out of the ultra restrictive british loading gauge.
The MK3s run up to 125Mph which isnt really high speed but they do look good, they have been a very successful design aswell even more multiple units. The Mk4s can run at 140Mph tho...but they do have small windows in the doors
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:18 PM   #415
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In terms of looks you just nammed possibly the two worse looking BRITISH ENGINEERED/DESIGNED/BUILD/EMPLOYED/IMPORTED locomotives (60 + 92). [/QUOTE]


They're my favourites.

I salivate when a 92 hums past me on the WCML, and I think the 60 looks the business, hauling 3,000 tonnes of aviation fuel through South Wales.

It must be a Brush thing. I love the 47 as well, and I think the Eurotunnel shuttle locos look pretty good.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 04:23 PM   #416
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Ahh, that is a very nice livery. Very modern.
I think this look good. Just a shame about the way they painted the doors. They are wrap-around doors but they only painted red on the front side of them

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Old August 22nd, 2009, 09:23 PM   #417
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British trains generally look a bit ... namby-pamby (probably not the best phrase to describe them), but that's why I like them! I'm with poshbakerloo for not liking things that look down-right industrial (pretty strange that this word is often used in a negative sense in Britain).
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 09:31 PM   #418
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Quote:
- Sotavento:


And by the way ... all train cars should look a lot more like the UIC X/Y stock than whatever cames out of the ultra restrictive british loading gauge.

I've not got the time now to do much internet research, so I though I'd clarify some points with you regarding UIC X/Y stock.

Am I right to think that most/all of the West European (as in pre-1990) rail administrations all built passenger cars based along the same UIC guidelines, these being the UIC X/Y guidelines?

Is this the main reason why loco-hauled rolling stock in mainland Europe has a completely different look to British stock?
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 09:37 PM   #419
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I think english trains just look utilitarian and simple. form over function. That's a good thing. It's a box on wheels to move people not supposed to be art.

The technical speak, not a train expert but I get the concept of loading gauges. So are the trains in the UK not really compatible with the ones in continental Europe? I guess this why there aren't through freight services from say, Scotland to Italy via the chunnel?
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 10:05 PM   #420
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Quote:
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I think english trains just look utilitarian and simple. form over function. That's a good thing. It's a box on wheels to move people not supposed to be art.

The technical speak, not a train expert but I get the concept of loading gauges. So are the trains in the UK not really compatible with the ones in continental Europe? I guess this why there aren't through freight services from say, Scotland to Italy via the chunnel?

You're right and wrong I think. Yes trains are there to perform a the duty of carrying people, and can do so without looking good.

However, trains have to compete with other forms of transport, notably the private car and air travel. This means that to attract some passengers, the railways have to be as succesful in marketing terms, as well as operational terms.

An ugly train, therefore, is a nightmare for a marketing man (or woman). The only trains which can truely afford to look like shit, are those which have a captive market, like, for example, London's deep level tube trains.

(Not that I'm saying they do look bad, but my point is, if everyone thought they did, almost all would still use them regardless, simply because for most journeys there's no better alternative).


With regards to the loading gauge issue, the British gauge is tighter both in width and height terms than any other in Europe.

That means that any British train can fit on any line in Europe, but clearly the reverse is not true.

Is this why there not any/more freight trains between Scotland and Italy, for example? No.

There is an ample stock of 'boxcars' built specifically for both British and Continental networks to enable conventional freights to run.

The same applies to intermodal wagons - there are more than enough which have been built to run in both Britain and the Continent to enable standard European swap bodies (which are about 2.7m high) to flow to/from Scotland and Italy.

The reason why there are not more conventional and/or intermodal freights through the Channel Tunnel relates in large part to problems of trade imbalances, and the past problems of train delays caused by customs inspections and French trade union strikes, which put off a lot of logisitics companies which did use the first Tunnel intermodal services.

The main drawback of Britain's loading gauge for freights relates to piggyback services - those which carry lorry semi-trailers. These are common across Scandinavia, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Northern Italy, and would be very useful for Britain, but one would have to demolish virtually every bridge and re-carve every tunnel to enable them to run.
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