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Old March 12th, 2010, 09:16 PM   #501
thun
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Yeah. The orange one is by far the best-looking TGV.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 02:02 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by loefet View Post
There is only one TGV derivative that really looks great and it's the new KTX-2
Officially at least, the KTX II is a completely new design and not a TGV derivative.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 11:25 AM   #503
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Yeah I know, but anyone with a set of eyes can see that there are so many similarities between the two to see the connection...
It still looks better than all the TGV the French have made though (in my eyes).
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Old March 13th, 2010, 03:21 PM   #504
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Actually, they are ugly. Appearance is certainly no strength of the TGV.
Well that's your opinion but its certainly not mine.

I actually think the TGV-POS locomotives look sleeker but considering they are much newer this makes the design longevity of the classic TGV all the more impressive.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 09:28 PM   #505
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Yeah. The orange one is by far the best-looking TGV.
I never like the colour orange, I think its one of the few colours that looks awful on anything other than kids toys!
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Old March 14th, 2010, 01:21 AM   #506
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I never like the colour orange, I think its one of the few colours that looks awful on anything other than kids toys!
Here in Sweden orange is a very classic colour for trains. Until the 1980’s most of the trains here in Sweden were orange or brown. A classic train in Sweden had orange locomotive and brown coaches. Look here:

First electric locomotive type Rc2 in original livery with a classic old InterCity.



The coaches after the orange locos were brown. Look at these InterCity coaches:

First an A2, its a first class coach for InterCity and now its like a legend. We often say this is the most comfortable and luxury coach in Sweden forever. They are like a legend here in Sweden.



And here is a B7 in old livery for InterCity.



Old EMU and DMU were in orange or orange and yellow.

Here is a very beautiful old EMU type X16 from 1955



Here is DMU type Y1. They were built 1979-1981. We think they were best in original in orange.



Now you don’t see orange or brown at the Swedish railways anymore. All of the trains who were orange or brown who are still in service are repainted in other colours. But at some museums there is still some trains in old colours.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:18 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
I never like the colour orange, I think its one of the few colours that looks awful on anything other than kids toys!



almost ALL locomotives in Portugal were ORANGE for the last 40 years or so ...
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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:42 AM   #508
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I've not got the time now to do much internet research, so I though I'd clarify some points with you regarding UIC X/Y stock.

Am I right to think that most/all of the West European (as in pre-1990) rail administrations all built passenger cars based along the same UIC guidelines, these being the UIC X/Y guidelines?

Is this the main reason why loco-hauled rolling stock in mainland Europe has a completely different look to British stock?
It's all about LOADING GAUGE ... ever wondered why longer (as in MkIII and MkIV) coaches in the UK have those cuts in the doors ???



Notice that the door is pulled to the center in the extreme of the coach making a / in the middle of the door pannel ... it's to conform to the restrictive loading gauge.


Here in Portugal we have a generous 3,2m wide loading gauge ... makes the coaches look completelly different.

200km/h (125mph) Corail coaches:


160km/h IC coach
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Old March 17th, 2010, 02:42 AM   #509
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This is not a normal Mark 3. It’s a prototype built in 1972 for the prototype train for the IC 125. This is built in 1972. Only the prototype train had this livery. The normal Mark 3 in the normal IC 125 had standard InterCity-livery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
200km/h (125mph) Corail coaches:

The Portuguese version of Corail is a little bit different from the normal Corail in France. The Portuguese version have the stainless steel design and the original Corail in France looks more conventional. These Portuguese version are built so they looks little bit more similar to the normal Portuguese Budd coaches.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 01:14 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
This is not a normal Mark 3. It’s a prototype built in 1972 for the prototype train for the IC 125. This is built in 1972. Only the prototype train had this livery. The normal Mark 3 in the normal IC 125 had standard InterCity-livery.

The body shell was pretty much the same as the final design...

You can still see that diagonal line across the door.



The MK4s have it aswell, although in a slightly different style...



I think it all just adds to the more distinctive look of British trains compared to a lot of other countries which all look the same. E.g. people who don't know tons about other countries trains would get Canadian and US trains mixed up, like wise with Continental European trains getting French and German mixed up etc...
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Last edited by poshbakerloo; March 17th, 2010 at 01:22 PM.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #511
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The MkIVs have even more gouged out so that they still fit in the loading guage when they tilt.

Shame nobody ever fitted the tilting equipment.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #512
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The MkIVs have even more gouged out so that they still fit in the loading guage when they tilt.

Shame nobody ever fitted the tilting equipment.
I agree. With a top speed of 140Mph aswell they have so much wasted potential! The 390s (pendolinos) would struggle to win in terms of passenger comfort aswell with their small windows etc and the MK4s (IC225s) are loco hauled so much quieter inside
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Old March 18th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post

I think it all just adds to the more distinctive look of British trains compared to a lot of other countries which all look the same. E.g. people who don't know tons about other countries trains would get Canadian and US trains mixed up, like wise with Continental European trains getting French and German mixed up etc...
I dont think German and French trains are similar. I think they are very different.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #514
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I think Mark 4 is quite interesting, they are not 100 % British. The doors are made by Kiekert in Germany and they are similar to the doors on German coaches who are produced at the same time like the Mark 4. The bogies on the Mark 4 are from SIG in Switzerland. That’s the standard bogies who are used on the Swiss EW IV-coaches.

When I see the Mark 4 I don't think they looks so 100% brittish. They looks a little bit continental.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 05:02 PM   #515
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I dont think German and French trains are similar. I think they are very different.
The none HSR trains look similar like all the normal intercity coaches with their high roofs etc and tall doors which extend down quite a way due to the low platforms.



They roof line and window shape is very similar to the French corail trains (yes I know the door arrangement is different and in red)




The most comparable UK coach to the corail coaches has to be the MK3s, same age, similar use etc...but looks completely different...

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Last edited by poshbakerloo; March 18th, 2010 at 05:14 PM.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 12:40 AM   #516
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I never like the colour orange, I think its one of the few colours that looks awful on anything other than kids toys!
Ofcourse we in the Netherlands we have 'orange' trains.



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Old March 19th, 2010, 03:26 AM   #517
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Maybe this coach type EW II from Switzerland looks a little bit British? The roof is not high, its more like the roofs at the Mark 2 and Mark 3 in the UK. The sides are a little bit curved down. The windows are bigger than they are at the Mark 3 and the later generations of mark 2. But Mark 1 and earlier generations of Mark 2 have bigger windows. So maybe if someone like the British trains, they can like this one too? I think this one looks more British than German.

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Old March 19th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #518
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Maybe this coach type EW II from Switzerland looks a little bit British? The roof is not high, its more like the roofs at the Mark 2 and Mark 3 in the UK. The sides are a little bit curved down. The windows are bigger than they are at the Mark 3 and the later generations of mark 2. But Mark 1 and earlier generations of Mark 2 have bigger windows. So maybe if someone like the British trains, they can like this one too? I think this one looks more British than German.

The resemblance is there particularly with the roof, but the windows are too square and sides too flat. The doors do looks a bit like the doors in the 158/9s

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Old March 19th, 2010, 03:57 PM   #519
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
I think it all just adds to the more distinctive look of British trains compared to a lot of other countries which all look the same. E.g. people who don't know tons about other countries trains would get Canadian and US trains mixed up, like wise with Continental European trains getting French and German mixed up etc...
If you ask me it is the other way around. All the British trains look the same to me, you said yourself you like that distinctive look. In continental Europe you have trains in an enormous variety of shapes and sizes, much more interesting in my opinion.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 06:42 PM   #520
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If you ask me it is the other way around. All the British trains look the same to me, you said yourself you like that distinctive look. In continental Europe you have trains in an enormous variety of shapes and sizes, much more interesting in my opinion.
yeah but im talking between countries not within. No other country in the world has trains that are even slightly similar to UK trains. But you can put European and north American trains in continental groups of similar design's rather than for the individual countries within them. There are some that have similar features, but none that have bright liverys, smaller loading gauge size, curved sides, imo perfect sized windows and high floors (designed for high platforms) on all trains etc.

The shape and style of British trains may not be 'ground breaking' but more of a tried, tested and successful design.

1938 Class 502



1994 Class 365



As you can see from these to photos, both the old and new trains still follow the same but successful format.
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