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Old February 7th, 2012, 03:37 AM   #3321
quashlo
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East approach into the station, from the Biwako Line and Kosei Line.
A 4-car 223 series is laying over on the left while a 225 series, the newest of JR East’s long-distance commuter EMUs, passes by on the right, a rapid for Himeji in an 8+4 formation.

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Queue at one of the bus stops.

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The impressive station plaza at the North Exit also contains one of the largest taxi pools I’ve ever seen in Japan. This is probably due to a combination of being a major Shinkansen station and the fact that Kyōto Station isn’t really the “center” of Kyōto… Although it's somewhat debatable if Kyōto has a well-defined center, the top choice would probably be the Shijō–Kawaramachi area, which Keihan and Hankyū do a much better job of serving than JR.

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Old February 7th, 2012, 03:38 AM   #3322
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You get good views to the other side of the station as well, because, unlike Ōsaka Station, the South Exit of Kyōto Station is just a lowrise terminal building.

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New Kintetsu hotel built directly atop the Kintetsu platforms at the station. This opened last year. Could be a pretty awesome place to stay if you’re a railfan.

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7-car 321 series local for Shin-Sanda on the JR Takarazuka Line (Fukuchiyama Line).
In addition to interlining with the JR Kōbe Line (San’yō Line) to Kōbe and Himeji, the JR Kyōto Line also interlines with the JR Takarazuka Line. These 321 series units are all-longitudinal seating, but it doesn’t matter as much since it’s on a local (all-stop) service, despite the 90 km journey between Kyōto and Shin-Sanda.

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Old February 7th, 2012, 03:38 AM   #3323
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The North Exit also has an extensive underground space… Of course it’s too early so most of the shops are closed, but this still provides access to the Municipal Subway Karasuma Line, the bus terminal platforms, and the South Exit of the station.

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Old February 7th, 2012, 03:39 AM   #3324
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Now, some pics of the lattice frames in the building (on the exterior and in the roof). The canopy at Ōsaka Station covers the platforms, but the canopy at Kyōto Station is mostly just a roof over the station building.

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Old February 7th, 2012, 03:40 AM   #3325
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Old February 7th, 2012, 08:41 AM   #3326
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Haha that one in Nagoya is really funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Those are pretty standard sounds for platform doors. Some other lines use similar sounds:

Tsukuba Express:

This one though sounds cute (it's like the sound that you hear in a carnival or in an amusement theme park for kids). Hehe this and other things make Japan such an interesting country.

Haha I definitely must visit Japan someday
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Old February 7th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #3327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post

Tokyo Metro Tozai Line. You see JR East E231 and Toyo Rapid 2000 series types in addition to the Tozai Line stock. This is one of the most crowded lines in the Tokyo metropolitan area, and has seen the introduction of the wide door 15000 series (1800mm door width) to help with crowding. The person who took this video claims to have taken this line "for years", so couldn't he have at least mentioned the station where he took the video, instead of the "gee whiz, Japan's trains are crowded and Imatouristherefortwoweeks" approach?
Speaking of a crowded Tozai line, at around 1:50 it is so crowded that a door won't open.


Last edited by zerokei; February 8th, 2012 at 04:06 AM. Reason: Insertion of Youtube link
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Old February 7th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #3328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
This melody is unique for Chuo Rapid Line departs in Tokyo Station?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb-1pn-RBdc

This is my cell phone ring.
My experience with at least JR East's departure melodies in the Tokyo area is that there are quite
few unique ones. Two examples could perhaps be the melodies at Ebisu and Mitaka, which I haven't
heard anywhere else (I might be wrong though?). Personally one of my favourites is the Mitaka's
track 6 version 2 min 33 s in the clip:


Another favourite is of course Takadanobaba's melody, which I thought was unique to Baba, but
I recently discovered that it is used at Niiza station on the Musashino line as well:


As for my cell phone I always have it on silence mode so there is no point in using a ring tone,
however I do have JR West's shinkansen in-car chime "Ii hi tabidachi" as my wake up alarm

Last edited by zerokei; February 8th, 2012 at 04:12 AM. Reason: Insertion of Youtube links
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Old February 7th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #3329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerokei View Post
Speaking of a crowded Tozai line, at around 1:50 it is so crowded that a door won't open.

http://youtu.be/X7O3v8Tfz2Q
Ah yes, I think I posted this before, when Tōkyō Metro announced that they would be widening the platform at this station.

The comments on the video are a bit interesting, too...

Quote:
Looks to be about 270% loads, no? They say that cars with straight sides can only max out at 255% loading, but it does look to be around there...
Quote:
I've seen the monitor in the operator's cab show 270% at Urayasu before.
Quote:
Speaking as a Tōzai Line user, I'm relieved that all those people get off when the train gets to Monzen (Nakachō).

If you make a mistake in choosing where to stand inside the train, the pressure (from the other passengers) can almost push you onto the seats.

I hope they add more lines.

A few more rush hour vids:

Chūō-Sōbu Local Line. Cannot decipher the station staff (sometimes they speak way too fast for me), but the "Platform 16" would seem to indicate Shinjuku Station. I think this must be during some service disruption, though... I don't recall seeing the Chūō-Sōbu Local Line this crowded on a regular basis. Anyways, how nice of the young woman to help out with the doors. Good passenger etiquette and understanding definitely helps make this level of crowding work.



Yamanote Line, Shinjuku Station

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Old February 8th, 2012, 03:59 AM   #3330
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Yokohama City begins studying Blue Line and Green Line extensions, passenger service on Tōkaidō Freight Line
http://mainichi.jp/area/kanagawa/new...40142000c.html

Quote:
In regards to three rail lines in Yokohama City currently being considered, including the extension of the Municipal Subway Blue Line from Azamino Station to Shin-Yurigaoka Station (Kawasaki City), Yokohama City has established a committee comprised of academic experts and others to begin investigating the possibility of constructing the lines. While a council of the national government identified the extensions as “appropriate”, the committee will unveil a policy direction on the proposals at the end of FY2012 after considering the city’s financial situation.

In addition to the Blue Line extension, the lines being considered include the Yokohama Loop Railway (provisional name)—involving extensions of both ends of the Green Line (Hiyoshi – Nakayama) between Hiyoshi and Tsurumi and between Nakayama and Motomachi–Chūkagai—and institution of passenger train service on the freight branch line of the Tōkaidō Line from Sakuragichō to Shinagawa, along the waterfront via Tsurumi and Hama-Kawasaki.

In 2000, the Transport Policy Council of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (MLIT) prioritized the section of the Blue Line extension between Azamino Station and the Aoba Ward area as “appropriate” for service before FY2015. The Kawasaki City section of the extension was identified as appropriate for groundbreaking before FY2015, together with the Loop Railway. The Council also recommended consideration of passenger service on the Tōkaidō Line freight branch line.

With the accelerated graying of its population, Yokohama City determined that a comprehensive public transportation investment plan, incorporating buses and other modes, is needed, leading to the establishment of the committee. The committee will investigate the need and financial feasibility of the proposals.

In the first committee meeting held on December 21 last year, top officials from the MLIT were present as observers. Several attendees at the meeting called for a transport system meeting the needs of an aging society, as well as for information on the current state of the Minato Mirai Line (opened 2004) and the Green Line (opened 2008), the latter of which is currently operating at a deficit. In response to the request for information on the city’s current budget state, city officials explained the difficulty of the situation: “Ten years ago, infrastructure investment costs were ¥300 billion and welfare costs were ¥100 billion, but now it’s the reverse.” Committee chairman and Tōkyō Institute of Technology professor Yai Tetsuo closed with the following remark: “I hope we can continue investigating these proposals while keeping in mind two points: The position and international competitiveness of the Greater Tōkyō region, and the need to provide services that are integral to daily life.”

Based on the final report to be submitted by the committee in June 2013, the city will make a policy decision on the proposals by the end of FY2013.

While the project lead on the various proposals is currently undecided, costs are estimated at around ¥150 billion for the extension of the Blue Line to Shin-Yurigaoka and around ¥800 billion for the Loop Railway. The Green Line was ¥245 billion.

In other parts of the city, construction of the Kanagawa Eastern Line is underway, comprised of the Sōtetsu–Tōkyū Line (scheduled opening in 2019) from near Yokohama Hazawa Station on the Tōkaidō Freight Line to Hiyoshi Station on the Tōkyū Line via Shin-Yokohama, and the Sōtetsu–JR Line (scheduled opening in 2015) from near Yokohama Hazawa Station to Sōtetsu’s Nishiya Station. The national government, Kanagawa Prefecture, Yokohama City, and others are bearing the ¥264 billion in project costs, with Sagami Railway and Tōkyū Corporation paying facility usage fees to operate the line after it opens.

Even should the city decide to move forward with construction of the three lines currently being considered, it’s expected to take around ten years until they open, and representatives from the city’s Urban Transport Division say, “We must consider future ridership forecasts before deciding on whether or not to make the investment.”
Map of the three projects:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...cdae50f4&msa=0

The materials from the December 21 meeting provide some interesting statistics:

Recent railway investment:

1999.03.10: Extension of the Sōtetsu Izumino Line, Izumi Chūō – Shōnandai
1999.08.29: Extension of Yokohama Line 1 (Blue Line), Totsuka – Shōnandai
2000.03.29: Conversion of the Tōkyū Kodomo no Kuni Line to commuter service, Nagatsuta – Kodomo no Kuni
2000.08.06: Extension of the Tōkyū Meguro Line, Tamagawa – Musashi Kosugi
2004.02.01: Opening of the Minato Mirai Line, Yokohama – Motomachi–Chūkagai
2008.03.30: Opening of Yokohama Line 4 (Green Line), Hiyoshi – Nakayama
2008.06.22: Extension of the Tōkyū Meguro Line, Musashi Kosugi – Hiyoshi

Percentage of city population within 15-minute walking distance of a train station:
FY1997: 74%
FY2001: 83.1%
FY2005: 86.1%
FY2007: 88.4%

The above is especially interesting, given how large the city is… If you get to the northern or western parts of Yokohama, it’s really easy to find small farms.

Most crowded rail lines (2005):
Yokohama Line, Kozukue → Shin-Yokohama: ~192%
Negishi Line, Shin-Sugita → Isogo: ~186%
Yokohama Line, Kamoi → Kozukue: ~180%
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Old February 8th, 2012, 04:06 AM   #3331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Ah yes, I think I posted this before, when Tōkyō Metro announced that they would be widening the platform at this station.
Sorry for the double post. Now I remember you posting these things about the Tozai line:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...n#post75631003
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...n#post75631035

Two years ago, I sometimes used the Tozai line between Takadanobaba and Waseda in morning. All students who don't walk the distance or take the buss usually ride in the last car. Taking a train right before class starts (and especially if it is raining), the load was quite full. I guess it doesn't compare to Monzen-nakacho though

Speaking of the Tozai line, does anyone know about the plans of a through service with the Seibu Shinjuku line?
I found this site: http://seibu.town-web.net/mirai.html of a railway fan who like to see it happen. I think his ideas are quite interesting. Reading on Wikipedia however, it seems that Seibu and Tokyo Metro are negotiating but haven't agreed on anything.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 07:32 PM   #3332
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Yeah, I’ve always sort of liked that idea… It only requires a small connection, but would eliminate the need to transfer at Takadanobaba or Shinjuku for a good number of passengers, or at least shift those transfers to a less-crowded Tōkyō Metro station inside the Yamanote Line loop. The original Tōzai Line plans left this option open, and I think Seibu and Tōkyō Metro already informally agreed to study the possibility of a connection at Takadanobaba a while ago, but there’s been no real movement. At the government level, though, I don’t think it’s being pushed, as it’s not in the almighty Transport Policy Council planning document.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the grade-separation of the Nakai – Nogata section of the Shinjuku Line will begin soon, and this will be completely underground. Numabukuro will be converted to a traditional four-track station (from the current design with platforms serving only the local tracks), which could leave open the possibility to make this station one end of the connector. Anything further east is probably not as ideal because it starts to get more built up and there’s less ROW to work with. The other alternative might be Arai Yakushi-mae, but that’s on a pretty nasty curve, although that will be smoothed out a bit as part of the undergrounding.

Finding a place to tie the connector into the Tōzai Line is also somewhat problematic, as Takadanobaba is not a four-track station and I don’t think Waseda-dōri is wide enough to allow them to expand the station. Ochiai isn’t any better, but at least they will be able to shorten the tunneling distance.

The alignment could look something like this:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...38aff0ac&msa=0
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Old February 9th, 2012, 03:31 AM   #3333
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quashlo, it would be great if you could make it down to Nagoya and ride (and document with photos) the Linimo HSST maglev running there. I'd love to see your reaction and your thoughts on if it could make a viable subway solution. If you have already ridden it, then just share some thoughts if you would.

I am wondering what kind of data they have regarding long term operating and maintenance costs in comparison to traditional subway trains. Do you know why more haven't been built around the country? Are there any cities in Japan or the world who are interesting in the HSST maglev technology.

I know that you are very busy at the moment, but when you have some extra time on your hands, any insight would be great! Again, thank you, thank you, thank you for all the hard work you spend on this forum.

Luke in Chicago
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Old February 9th, 2012, 05:06 AM   #3334
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IMO, Linimo falls under the category of supplemental or auxiliary transport, like AGT or monorails. They typically connect with conventional heavy rail rapid transit, and/or run through areas with restrictions preventing conventional rail lines from being built (built up areas, hill and dale topography etc.) where their ability to handle steeper grades is an advantage.

With Linimo, there may be limitations with passenger capacity/throughput- there were problems with the line being overwhelmed during the Expo, and during my ride a few years back, I noticed the switches move at a relatively slow pace like monorails, which would imply a somewhat reduced tph capacity compared to conventional rail (not to mention more elaborate, bulky switch mechanisms). The fact is, conventional rail is still a very flexible (interline running is possible, timed overtakes the norm), proven, and efficient mode. I expect rail will still be dominant through the rest of this century, with Linimo type systems being used in "closed system" applications like at airports or as connectors to the heavy rail network.

Last edited by k.k.jetcar; February 9th, 2012 at 05:14 AM.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 07:56 AM   #3335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
quashlo, it would be great if you could make it down to Nagoya and ride (and document with photos) the Linimo HSST maglev running there. I'd love to see your reaction and your thoughts on if it could make a viable subway solution. If you have already ridden it, then just share some thoughts if you would.
Never ridden it... It's kinda out of the way to be honest, so I'm not sure I'd ever get a chance to ride it in the near future, but who knows.

Assuming you're just using "subway" as a generic catch-all for "urban rail-based rapid transit", the issues with the adoption of maglev are pretty similar to those with the adoption of monorail... I got into a huge argument about the merits of monorails a long time ago on SSP, which I thought was pretty ridiculous because everyone kept trying to marginalize monorail as being successful only as some sort of theme park attraction. People were using comparatively extreme situations to relegate monorail to some "niche" markets. In reality, it's not as "niche" as most people think, and they're just not aware of monorail's full potential. A lot of the comments focused on things like frequency / capacity (to which my response was that monorail has a pretty broad capacity range and will do perfectly fine in most situations...) and flexibility in level of grade separation (mostly it was people trying to compare LRT vs. monorail... the wrong comparison to be making really).

When you boil the issues down, the biggest factor going against monorails is simply that they don't "play nice" with existing steel wheel rail systems, so you can't take advantage of existing infrastructure. There's other concerns of course, like lack of vendors (a corollary really of limited demand for the technology in the first place), but I think the biggest factor is still the incompatibility. Urban maglev technology suffers from this same issue, but I think maglev still has a bit further to go to prove itself a viable solution for urban transit. Linimo is still the only major implementation of maglev technology in urban transit (although the Incheon Airport maglev and Beijing's Mentougou (S1) Line should eventually join it). There were also a few hiccups when the Linimo ran during the Aichi World Expo, where the passenger loads were too heavy and the trains simply weren't able to levitate. These aren't fatal flaws, though, and can be overcome with refinements of the technology.

Otherwise, though, my impression from seeing videos of it is pretty good... It's smooth and extremely quiet, with the latter being a really huge plus for elevated alignments through urban neighborhoods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
I am wondering what kind of data they have regarding long term operating and maintenance costs in comparison to traditional subway trains. Do you know why more haven't been built around the country?
I don't have much hard data on comparative costs, although I haven't really done much searching. Chūbu HSST Development Corporation, which markets the Linimo technology, argues that construction and maintenance costs are lower than conventional rail, which makes sense given the smaller guideway and the lack of traditional rails and overhead / catenary. Finding the scale of the cost difference may be more difficult, but you could probably do some comparative studies between Linimo and some monorail or AGT systems in Japan, of which there are many to choose from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
Are there any cities in Japan or the world who are interesting in the HSST maglev technology.
Well, HSST refers specifically to the Linimo's technology... I don't know of any Japanese city that's particularly interested in HSST technology at the moment, but again, that has to be put into perspective, as both monorail and AGT systems are pretty well established in Japan. As for urban maglev in general, there are still the Korean and Chinese efforts mentioned above.

I know Chūbu HSST has tried marketing the technology elsewhere before (I think they submitted a proposal for the BART Oakland Airport Connector), but I don't think anybody's shown much interest yet.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #3336
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Thanks quashlo and k.k.jetcar for your insights. I still believe that maglev can work very well in urban situations. I believe that monorails with their clunky switches can run at 90 second headways which is as good as most subway systems. I don't see why maglev can't do the same. At http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/archive122110.html it says that monorails planned in Sao Paulo will have a design headway of 75 seconds and an operating headway of 90 seconds.

When it comes to monorail, they are real people moving machines. It is true that so far most monorails built are underutilized. I would love to see a 10 or 11 car Tama Monorail running every 5 minutes during rush hour. The closest thing we have to that is the Tokyo Monorail, which is a great system!

I agree with both of you that one of the hurdles of maglev and monorail is that lack of compatibility with current systems and infrastructure.

Regards,

Luke
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Old February 10th, 2012, 03:41 AM   #3337
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Quote:
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I would love to see a 10 or 11 car Tama Monorail running every 5 minutes during rush hour.
Tōkyō Monorail is 18 tph peak, Chongqing Rapid Transit Line 2 is about there, too. That's pretty good, if you ask me, and sufficient for most system's needs. I think monorail opponents focus a little too much on the "extreme" specs like 75,000 ppphd throughput or 2-minute headways, when in reality, that situation is so far out there for most places that they won't ever need to worry about it. Monorails primarily compete with things like light- to medium-capacity metros and AGTs, and they will do a fine job in those situations.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #3338
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How do you evacuate people from a monorail in case of a fire when the car is 10 meters up in the air? It's no passageway along/between the tracks, so i guess there is some sort of rope ladder onboard each car?
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Old February 11th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #3339
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You can design it with catwalks... The Las Vegas Monorail has them.

There's also other ways to evacuate:
http://www.osaka-monorail.co.jp/jpn/s_safety/06.html

- Coupling with another train
- Safety devices inside the train
- Ladder trucks (fire rescue)
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Old February 11th, 2012, 02:20 AM   #3340
lkstrknb
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The Linimo maglev in Nagoya has emergency walkways as shown in http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=366017

We will have to wait and see if the new Incheon South Korea maglev will have walkways. The last pictures I saw was before the beams were installed.
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