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Old February 11th, 2012, 02:43 AM   #3341
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I wouldn't consider these switches slow or clunky!!

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Old February 11th, 2012, 07:46 AM   #3342
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Yes, but my point is that conventional switches are faster (in terms of a few seconds), which is critical in terms of running high frequency operations -you wouldn't want linimo types used on a Tokyo Metro Tozai Line or Keikyu Line style operation, for example. Of course, we are talking about operations on the margin, and linimo type operations (or monorail) would be good solutions in some cases, but not all.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 01:38 PM   #3343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
You can design it with catwalks... The Las Vegas Monorail has them.

There's also other ways to evacuate:
http://www.osaka-monorail.co.jp/jpn/s_safety/06.html

- Coupling with another train
- Safety devices inside the train
- Ladder trucks (fire rescue)
Thank you for your answer.

Yes, some systems have them, but when I look at Chongqing's system I can not see anything that resembles a safety option in case of an emergency where evacuating fast is crucial. Even just a rope would do a pretty good job in some cases I think.

"Safety devices inside the train" I guess this means fire extinguisher and the like?

I think that to have a system of monorail without a good option of evacuating the train is unheard of. Even that the opportunity for an accident like a sudden fire and, lets say, a power out, is very slim, you should atleast have a rope or two onboard.

Last edited by Northridge; February 11th, 2012 at 01:50 PM.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #3344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post

Yes, but my point is that conventional switches are faster (in terms of a few seconds), which is critical in terms of running high frequency operations -you wouldn't want linimo types used on a Tokyo Metro Tozai Line or Keikyu Line style operation, for example. Of course, we are talking about operations on the margin, and linimo type operations (or monorail) would be good solutions in some cases, but not all.
A switch movement that requires three seconds for a maglev line as opposed to one second for a conventional rail line is not going to be a limiting factor for the headways between trains.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #3345
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The maglev line in Shanghai features emergency escape chutes that deploy from the sides of the trains. One of the chutes was actually used a few years ago when a minor fire occurred on one of the trains.



At the following link is the website of a company that manufactures escape chute systems.

http://www.escape-chute-systems.com/
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Old February 11th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #3346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
"Safety devices inside the train" I guess this means fire extinguisher and the like?
If you look at the link, it's ropes + harness.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #3347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
If you look at the link, it's ropes + harness.
Sorry, but I can't read anything besides Norwegian and English. I've plans to start learning Japanese though, since it my favorite country of vacation.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #3348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
The maglev line in Shanghai features emergency escape chutes that deploy from the sides of the trains. One of the chutes was actually used a few years ago when a minor fire occurred on one of the trains.

At the following link is the website of a company that manufactures escape chute systems.

http://www.escape-chute-systems.com/
Thank you for the post.

This is OT so i think this discussion should end here?

This safety device looks very good but they do not know how to design a good web page.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 12:20 PM   #3349
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I think it was in this thread that someone asked quashlo if he/she had ridden the Linimo. For those interested, I'll be riding it tomorrow, and hope to be taking some pictures etc, with comments on how well it rides and all.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #3350
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Yes, please take some pictures!
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Old February 15th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #3351
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Opinion: An undergrounded Yamanote Line could create space for 400,000 residents
http://www.news-postseven.com/archiv...210_86143.html

Quote:
A plan to construct a new station on the Yamanote Line has taken off. The new station is planned on the site of Tamachi Car Center, about one kilometer north of Shinagawa Station. But in order to achieve the revitalization of Tōkyō, Ōmae Ken’ichi calls for a second phase, followed by a third phase, of development. Below is Ōmae’s analysis.

=====

Redevelopment around Shinagawa Station and Tamachi Station shouldn’t stop at just the tracks between the two stations… I think we should also look at redevelopment of the West Exit and East Exit at Shinagawa Station, as a second phase of the project.

JR East could purchase Seibu Railway, unifying the hotels and other land owned by Seibu outside the West Exit of the station with the East Exit redeveloped by JR East and the upcoming redevelopment of Tamachi Car Center… If we can redevelop these areas together, the project becomes substantially larger.

As for specific designs for the area, we would cover over the entire area like the sci-fi film “Independence Day”, “undergrounding” all of the rail lines. But we wouldn’t actually be burying anything underground… We would create new lots on a manmade elevated deck directly above where the trains currently run, connecting the West Exit and East Exit and constructing a new community that stretches all the way to Tamachi.

The entire neighborhood, including roads, would be rebuilt from the ground up, creating residences, offices, shopping malls, restaurants, cafes, hotels, church squares, and other spaces and giving birth to a 24-hour town where people can come together and exchange ideas.

Tōkyō currently has a glut of office space, so even if they just build high-rise office towers in this area, they won’t be able to lease out all the space. But there is an unlimited demand for housing. Building the massive amount of housing possible in that area will substantially reduce housing costs, and if they make them land-leased condos, I think they can probably go for about half the current market price of condos in central Tōkyō.

Co-locating employment and housing will make walking commutes possible, and with the proximity to Haneda Airport (assuming the Tōkaidō Shinkansen were extended), people and corporations from all across the world will gather here.

And for a third phase of development, this could be extended all the way to Ueno. In other words, JR East would use its air rights to construct a swath of high-rise housing between Shinagawa and Ueno. If we do that, the first thing will be the connection of the Shinagawa / Tamachi cluster and the Shiodome / Hamamatsuchō cluster.

By redeveloping both sides of the tracks between Shinbashi and Yūrakuchō and connecting it to Shiodome, we could develop first-class district. Just beyond that is Akihabara with its concentration of creative minds in the video gaming, anime, and IT industries, and the area up to Ueno could be transformed into high-quality housing areas for residents commuting to Shinagawa / Tamachi, Shiodome, and Marunouchi.

If this plan is realized, we could create housing for at least 400,000 residents, all of whom would have access to a comfortable environment where employment and housing are co-located within a 15-minute commute and the Yamanote Line is running 24 hours a day.
An interesting vision, although I somehow doubt it will get anywhere. There are real technical challenges that I suspect would probably make it difficult for something like this to pencil out.
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Old February 16th, 2012, 08:22 AM   #3352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Yes, please take some pictures!
Unfortunately, due to a 'marathon' competition that I was partaking in (8km only, hah!), I didn't bring my camera, so none of my own photos, however, I'll link some and provide a small description of the ride etc.



So, the interior, very modern, and space age (appropriate, I suppose). Nice to see fewer advertisements than usual. (The amount of adverts is one of the many reasons I utterly despise the Meijo Line trains). It did, however feel just a little smaller than a normal train on the inside.



(I think we may have seen this before!) The ride itself was extrememly quiet and smooth, a massive improvement of the squeaks and squeals of the Higashiyama Line that it connects to. You notice quite how quiet it is when you're in the tunnel section near to Fujigaoka Station, where normally you'd hear whilstling, screeching motors, there was jsut a quiet whine, and a dead smooth ride through the tunnel, a little disconcerting if anything!

But to be brutally honest, it didn't feel like much else than an expensive (but quiet)commuter rail service.
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Old February 16th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #3353
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Thanks for the post.

Well, I can't say I'm surprised about the "expensive" thing, as most new lines in Japan try to maximize fare revenue to recoup all the costs and debt incurred with construction. The exceptions are if it's an addition to the operator's existing network, like the Fukutoshin Line. Linimo is still operating in the red, but the deficit has been dropping in recent years.
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Old February 17th, 2012, 12:02 AM   #3354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Thanks for the post.

Well, I can't say I'm surprised about the "expensive" thing, as most new lines in Japan try to maximize fare revenue to recoup all the costs and debt incurred with construction. The exceptions are if it's an addition to the operator's existing network, like the Fukutoshin Line. Linimo is still operating in the red, but the deficit has been dropping in recent years.
I remember reading that they were worried about how rapidly the ridership fell from somewhere around 100,000 during the expo to 16,000, actually, I think that may have been one of your posts a long time ago! But I think with the Nagoya metro area beginning to streatch out past Fujigaoka, and on into the surrounding hills, I think we can expect to see more ridership increase.


On another note, anyone who knows Nagoya fairly well, will notice there's a little 'stub' of a metro line that runs into Heian-dori. I used to use that for my everyday commute, but no longer. It appears that they've left provisions to tunnel further past the end of the station. Does anyone know if something like that is in the books?
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Old February 17th, 2012, 03:55 AM   #3355
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The plan from many years ago (1992) was to have it continue south to Shin-Sakaemachi (Higashiyama Line) and Marutachō, where it would then through-service with a future Municipal Subway Tōbu (東部) Line to Sasashima. From Sasashima, the line would through-service with the JR Kansai Main Line and potentially with the Nishi-Nagoyakō Line (now in service as the "Aonami Line"):

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...61e23aff&msa=0

I think Nagoya City is putting rail extensions on ice for the moment, as they've amassed a sizable chunk of debt with all the extensions they've opened within the past 15-20 years.
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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:04 AM   #3356
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They'll need to quadruple-track the Yamanote Line before even thinking of having people living on top of it.
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Old February 17th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #3357
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Well, the JR tracks along much of the Yamanote are quadrupled+ for much of it's length to accommodate the other lines the run parallel to it. I would imagine any plan to move the Yamanote line underground and use the land for housing would also include plans to underground the other JR lines that run parallel to it.

Anyway, I think part of the appeal of the Yamanote Line is the fact that it is above ground line.

To be honest, I can't imagine it'd ever happening. Building anything underground in Tokyo is a headache because there is so much underground already! Think of all the subway and underground train lines, road tunnels, flood and sewage tunnels, utility tunnels, etc. they would have to build around. I remember watching a TV show about a new underground highway in Tokyo; the first phase is only a short section from near Shibuya to Shinjuku, but ~8-9 subway/train lines pass under and over it! They had to engineer the tunnel so as not to hit all the other tunnels; there's even a point where they built the road tunnel in between two subway lines; one directly above and one directly below at the same point! And then the show turned to the issue of earthquakes; what will happen to the layers of tunnels under Tokyo in the event of 'the big one'? So I can imagine just thinking about putting the Yamanote Line underground is enough to make engineers' and cash strapped politicians' and railway executives' minds explode!
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Old February 17th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #3358
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Similarly, the Fukutoshin Line tunnel is spaced only a few centimeters away from existing subway line tunnels in some locations. If the Yamanote Line were to be undergrounded, the tunnel may have to be built do deeply that it would have detrimental effects on convenience- a business claiming (for example) a two minute walk from xxxx station on the Yamanote Line may have to change that to six minutes.
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Old February 17th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #3359
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I don't think the article talked about putting Yamanote Line underground.
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Old February 17th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #3360
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Yeah, I should probably fix the title on that post.
They'd really just building over it, the same way they are currently doing at the South Exit of Shinjuku Station. They wouldn't have to do much digging, but there'd be a lot of shifting of tracks laterally to make way for columns for the buildings above. I'm not sure how practical this is along the entire length of the line between Ueno and Shinagawa, but I suppose they could just not build on the parts where they have difficulty securing enough ROW.

Even if they really wanted to underground the Yamanote Line, there's other factors in addition to the ones mentioned above... Most notable is what to do with the segment running parallel with the Keihin-Tōhoku Line, where there are cross-platform transfers. Do you underground just the Yamanote Line or do you underground both? Plus, JR East has already made a commitment to install platform doors... I doubt the platforms will be going anywhere anytime soon.

The biggest motivation for undergrounding is grade-separation, and there are much higher-priority segments on other lines. The Yamanote Line has one grade crossing in Nakazato, between Komagome and Tabata, but the rest of it is completely grade-separated.

There's still quite a few major trunk lines into / out of Tōkyō that are nowhere close to being fully grade-separated. (This is only Tōkyō Prefecture... Kanagawa, Chiba, and Saitama are excluded from the graphic). In particular, the Seibu Shinjuku Line, Tōbu Tōjō Line, and Keiō Line have substantial segments that are not completely grade-separated. In addition, this graphic doesn't show it, but the Tōkaidō Line / Keihin‒Tōhoku Line between Shinagawa and Yokohama is a complete mess, as there's at least a few grade crossings about 8-10 tracks long, if I remember correctly.


Source: Tōkyō Metropolitan Government
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