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#3741 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Groundwater is an issue, especially when you need to build deep like you generally do in Tōkyō… For one example, there were serious issues with groundwater uplift impacting the underground Sōbu Line platforms (Level B5) at Tōkyō Station.
Anyways, it's a bit difficult to compare projects in different places, as a lot simply depends on the local conditions... You’ve got to make sure that you’re comparing comparable things. Aside from the things already mentioned, here’s a few more factors to consider:
Yokohama Minato Mirai Line 6 new stations 4.1 km Large, deep stations (including two at Level B5) Multiple water crossings ¥260 billion (¥63 billion per km) Yokohama Municipal Subway Green Line 10 new stations 13.1 km Linear-motor “mini-subway”, small trains ¥245 billion (¥19 billion per km) Anyways, there's a good sample of recent metro projects globally here: http://pedestrianobservations.wordpr...ruction-costs/ You’ll see that the costs in Tōkyō are maybe slightly on the higher end of the spectrum, but aren’t vastly different from the projects list for the UK or Germany, and cheaper than the New York projects cited. When you consider the other factors mentioned previously like seismic design considerations, a large amount of existing underground infrastructure, etc., I don't think we can really describe the costs as "astronomical". There are also many projects elsewhere in Japan that are much closer to the ¥20 billion per km number, like the Sendai Municipal Subway Tōzai Line and Hanshin Namba Line.
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3742 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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New Yotsubashi Line extension surfaces as possible alternative to Naniwasuji Line
http://www.nikkei.com/news/local/art...E2E2EBE0E0E4E5 Quote:
The plan involves constructing the Nishi-Umeda – Jūsō Link, a 2.9 km connection between the Yotsubashi Line’s Nishi-Umeda Station and Hankyū’s Jūsō Station. If the Shin-Ōsaka Link, a 2 km connection between Jūsō and Shin-Ōsaka that Hankyū already has government approvals for but is currently on hold, kicks up again, it will allow Yotsubashi Line trains to run to Shin-Ōsaka or destinations on the Hankyū network including Kyōto and Kōbe. The southern connection into the Nankai Line is a bit more complex, as Nankai Namba is an elevated station, and the Nankai network is narrow-gauge, while Hankyū and the Yotsubashi Line are standard gauge. Officials are looking at the possibility of variable-gauge trains for the service, but will settle for a cross-platform transfer if that idea proves too difficult. There’s also the other (significant) design issue related to current collection, as the Yotsubashi Line is powered by third rail while both Hankyū and Nankai use overhead lines. In terms of cost, the Nishi-Umeda – Jūsō Link is estimated at approx. ¥95 billion and the Shin-Ōsaka Link at approx. ¥33 billion to ¥40 billion. The cost of the Nankai connection is uncertain, but officials say the overall cost of the project can still be kept under the estimated cost of the Naniwasuji Line (¥180 billion to ¥330 billion). I suspect that today’s urban planners in Ōsaka must be kicking themselves for the mistakes of the past… They designed the municipal subway to function as a completely independent system from the private railways... In reality, they would have been much better off staying out of the subway business and letting the private railways extend all the way through central Ōsaka, or designing the subway network to be 100% compatible with the private railways (just like Tōkyō). They’ve also whittled away a lot of money on some questionable projects (the Imazatosuji Line comes to mind immediately).
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3743 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Upgrades to JR Hiroshima Station stalling
http://www.nikkei.com/news/local/art...E2E2EBE0E0E4EA Quote:
Currently, there are three options on the table: a surface-street option (¥3 billion), an underground option beneath the South Exit underground plaza (¥25 billion to ¥30 billion), and an elevated option into the second level of the station (¥7 billion to ¥10 billion). The surface-street option is cheapest, but offers the least benefit, as trams will still be stuck in street traffic. An elevated option would present potential grade issues for the trams, while there are obvious design and engineering issues to be considered with an underground alignment. Apparently, Hiroden is set on an underground alignment, which it estimates to cost ¥14 billion. JR West, on the other hand, is pushing for an elevated alignment, as main on-foot circulation through the station occurs at the second level of the station anyways. The lead agency on the city side will announce the results of its feasibility studies on the three options this summer. At the North Exit of the station, there’s also some issues related to plans to redesign the North Exit station plaza. Scenes at Hiroden Hiroshima Station. This would make for an interesting elevated station…
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3744 | |
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ご乗車頂いてありがとうございます。
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Yokohama
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Quote:
Still, think how Osaka would've become different if there were Toyko style through running. For example, perhaps Kintetsu's Osaka line would branch from Yao somewhere and feed into the Sennichimae line. Or the Tanimachi line would handle Nankai trains... Interesting to think about indeed. |
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#3745 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
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Compared to Tokyo, the relations between JR/JNR and the private railways in Kansai have always been more adverserial/competitive (most private railways in Kanto adopted 1067mm gauge b/c they interchanged freight with JNR). The idea of interline running or interchange of freight had no strong tradition with the Kansai Railways essentially being street railways evolved into interurbans (Nankai and Kobe Dentetsu excepted), and then you had the municipal subway stuck in the middle.
*As for the Yotsubashi Line, just extend it and allow cross platform transfers with Hankyu and Nankai. Forget variable gauge (what a potential headache). There already is JR West Haruka for people coming from farther out in Kyoto and Shiga. I don't think Mayor Hashimoto would be too keen on building a brand new subway line when existing lines could be linked. Last edited by k.k.jetcar; May 8th, 2012 at 08:32 AM. |
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#3746 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Designing trains that run on both third rail and and overhead power isn't much of a problem, at least not compared to variable gauge, so through-running between the Yotsubashi Line and Hankyu lines should be possible. (The English Wikipedia said the Yotsubashi Line had overheard power but the Japanese Wikipedia said third rail, so I took the liberty of changing it on the English Wikipedia entry.)
Here in the UK we have plenty of EMUs that switch between 750 V DC third rail and 25 kV AC overhead, and some of them were even made in Japan.
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#3747 | |
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Yeah, I'm just curious about whether the tunnels on the Yotsubashi Line provide sufficient clearance... It seems like a bored tunnel would probably leave enough clearance for a (folded) pantograph, but not sure about any cut-and-cover sections. I suppose they could drop the ceilings of the trains a bit, though. The overall proposal is still interesting, and would make better use of the Yotsubashi Line, which was primarily built to relieve the Midōsuji Line. The few times I've ridden it, I haven't been impressed, and it only carries a few hundred thousand riders a day, if even that.
Regarding variable-gauge trains, from a railfan perspective I'd love to see how a rapid transit implementation would work... There's at least two potential applications in the Kantō area (Kamakama Line and Kawasaki Subway / Keikyū Daishi Line). Quote:
Ōsaka didn't abandon its "Monroe Doctrine" until it was too late, and is now left with an outcome partially anti-thetical to its original goal. It eventually acquiesced and permitted non-municipal railways further into the city with Kintetsu's extension to Namba, the JR Tōzai Line, the Keihan Nakanoshima Line, and the Hanshin Namba Line (which actually duplicates a good portion of the Sennichimae Line and renders it somewhat useless).
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3748 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Ōsaka Municipal Subway to be privatized by FY2015
http://www.nikkei.com/news/headline/...E09391EAE2E2E2 Quote:
Late-night service will be extended in April 2013, followed by the fare cuts in April 2014. The fare cuts would bring the base (minimum) fare of ¥200 down by ¥20, reducing the Transportation Bureau’s annual fare revenue by approx. ¥6 billion. The extended late-night service would also increase annual expenses by several billion yen.
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3749 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 654
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Hey guys, perhaps out of the random but...
I wonder how many of you here has played Pokémon Black and White. In Anville Town (Kanawa in the Japanese versions) in the game, there is a character there that talks about a different type of train car that runs on the Battle Subway system in the game every day. Looking at the models of the trains portrayed, it seems like Game Freak (the maker of the games) based them off actual Japanese trainsets. The problem is, which train is which? Does anyone know?
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Last edited by eX.A.K.R.; May 10th, 2012 at 08:03 AM. |
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#3750 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 995
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![]() Based on screenshots, they seem to be generic designs somewhat based on the JR East E231 series, but shrunk to two doors/side. |
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#3751 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Hankyū breaks ground on renovation of Umeda Station
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/economy/new...3320058-n1.htm Quote:
Eight different zones inside the station comprising a total of approx. 12,000 sq m will be renovated, including the station’s inner and outer concourses and the “BIGMAN Square” popular as a meeting spot. This is the first major renovation of the station in over 40 years (the last was in 1963 when the relocation of the station to its present location was completed). Lighting will be converted to LEDs, reducing electricity usage by about one-third. Walls and ceilings will be spruced up, and signage will be replaced with new four-language signs. The platforms, however, will remain unchanged. Hankyū’s other projects in the area are also proceeding apace, including the expansion of the first and second floors of the Hankyū Grand Building (mixed-use commercial building) with additional stores and renovation of the 27th through 31st floors of Hankyū 32-bangai (a restaurant arcade), scheduled for completion in mid-August. The expansion to Hankyū Department Store’s Umeda flagship store will also open in late November. Render of the BIGMAN Square: ![]() I’ve neglected to post anything for a while now, but work on the platform canopies at Ōsaka Station is nearing completion… As mentioned before, they settled on a replacement using glass instead of a complete removal. Here’s a video from a few months agao (2012.03.29): Overall, not bad (at least from above), although it (clearly) clashes with the end sections… I almost wish they’d extend the glass all the way now instead of a half-half solution, but oh well. I’ll probably post some pics later if I get a chance.
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3752 | |
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PC LOAD LETTER
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 2,392
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Maine, the Pine Tree State |
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#3753 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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The easiest solution would be to retain that section just for Line 5, but given all the traffic, perhaps they will try and move Line 5 off that alignment and connect it into the new alignment at the first intersection south of the main bridge, even it increases the cost a bit. The current alignment uses one of only two main roads to allow access across the tracks (and the other one is on the west side of the station).
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3754 |
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PC LOAD LETTER
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
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I hope they do the underground thing. If I am not mistaken, Japan might be the largest developed country without light rail ever running underground (even China has it in Changchun, and Russia in Volgograd).
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Maine, the Pine Tree State |
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#3755 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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No, I suppose not... Although it's debatable whether an underground Hiroden alignment on this section will really change anything either, as we'd only be talking about 100 m or so that would actually be underground.
The closest thing to "underground light rail" is probably the Keihan Keishin Line, an interurban line whose aboveground segment in central Kyōto City was replaced by the (underground) Kyōto Municipal Subway Tōzai Line. The Keihan trains are 100% high-floor stock to ensure compatibility and allow through-service with the Tōzai Line. It's still somewhat a matter of nomenclature, though, since most of Japan's major private railways evolved from interurbans and may have qualified as some form of "light rail" today if they hadn't implemented the more drastic changes like platform extensions, rolling stock upgrades (larger, longer cars), and quadruple-tracking. Perhaps a bit hard to imagine, but this is, in some ways, the predecessor to today's Den'en Toshi Line:
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3756 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Found this on YouTube...
They're clips from anime that feature trains. Just ignore the slow-mo replays and slightly corrupted sound. There's plenty more on the same channel. Odakyū trains from 秒速5センチメートル: Keisei trains from 時をかける少女: Tōkyū 8590 series on the Tōyoko Line: Exploring the former ROW of the Tōkyū Kinuta Line:
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3757 | |
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Location: Sapporo
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#3758 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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On the Keishin Line, is that just water being sprayed on the rails to lessen wear?
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#3759 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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It's to reduce the track noise... The Keishin Line has some of the sharpest curves and steepest grades (close to 7%) in Japan for a traditional railway (i.e., not a funicular, rack / cog, etc.).
These Keihan trains are actually some of the most expensive stock in Japan because the Keishin Line and Tōzai Line are so vastly different from each other—one a street-running tram with the curves and gradients of a mountain railway and one a modern subway line with all the fixings (platform doors, ATO, etc.).
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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#3760 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Kinki Sharyō receives order for Sendai City Subway Tōzai Line trains
http://www.kinkisharyo.co.jp/ja/news/news120502.htm Quote:
This is an order for 15 trains (60 cars) of the new 2000 series for the Tōzai Line, which is slated to open in FY2015. This is a linear motor “mini-subway” very similar to the Yokohama Municipal Subway Green Line.
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San Francisco ● Japan 2011: Tokyo I, II, III (Kamakura); Osaka I (+Kyoto +Kobe), II (Kyoto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikko; Tokyo IV (Yokohama), V |
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