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Old May 3rd, 2012, 04:05 PM   #3781
k.k.jetcar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
Very expensive...
Actually, the average world cost of a rapid transit line is $150 to $200 million per km, while an underground line is 250 to 300 million per km, so the Yurikamome is quite representative.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 07:29 PM   #3782
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Yeah, once you go fully grade-separated with structures or tunneling, the cost increases dramatically. While the roads in Odaiba are very wide, a surface light rail line wouldn't be very competitive time-wise and would have limited capacity. The Yurikamome already runs every 3.5 minutes at peak, and that's with a large amount of development potential still remaining and a potential extension to Harumi or Kachidoki looming in the background.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 01:56 AM   #3783
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Yes, because Tokyo don't have space to build more expressways and railways on surface.

Yurikamome is owned by Toei (Tokyo Transport public company) but operate by a private company, no? There are feeder bus routes with this system on Odaiba Island?

It's very interesing to see (via Wikipedia) that each announcement is made for known artists from Japan. I believe that system is unique in the world about this.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 03:52 AM   #3784
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On this thread we might have dropped the ball on Wakayamadaigakumae station, a new Nankai station in Wakayama Prefecture that opened on April 1.


source: http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/mizunokuni2...chive/2012/4/3


source: http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/mizunokuni2...chive/2012/4/3


source: http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/mizunokuni2...chive/2012/4/3


source: http://furaibo-gekihima.seesaa.net/a...261695085.html
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Old May 5th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #3785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
Yurikamome is owned by Toei (Tokyo Transport public company) but operate by a private company, no? There are feeder bus routes with this system on Odaiba Island?
Well, it's one of those third-sector things... The Tōkyō Metropolitan Government owns about 85% of "Tōkyō Rinkai Holdings", which owns 99.9% of the operator of the Yurikamome. The remaining 0.1% is owned directly by the Tōkyō Metropolitan Government.

The Yurikamome covers pretty much every part of the islands... The station spacing makes every area within short walking distance of a station, and when you include the Rinkai Line and Yūrakuchō Line, there's very little need for feeder buses.

There are a handful of bus routes, though:
http://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/bus/...ml?default=E-4

The fact that these are islands makes it a bit impractical to run frequent bus service (it would mostly just cannibalize Yurikamome ridership, anyways), but there is the 海01 (every 6 min peak, every 8-15 min off-peak), which runs from Monzen Nakachō Station to Tōkyō Teleport Station via Toyosu and Ariake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
It's very interesing to see (via Wikipedia) that each announcement is made for known artists from Japan. I believe that system is unique in the world about this.
Hm, thanks for pointing this out... I didn't even know about this.

Looks like there was at least one stint with Fuji TV reporters (女子アナ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK8uawdTlMQ

I wouldn't mind seeing this spread to other lines... I thought the Yamanote Line thing with AKB48 was a "first" of sorts, but I guess they did it for the Yurikamome a year before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moJLLdOcOyM
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Old May 5th, 2012, 08:45 PM   #3786
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Mitsubishi and Hitachi eye monorail for Manila
http://manilastandardtoday.com/2012/...monorail-bcda/

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Two of Japan’s biggest conglomerates have expressed interest to build the 20-kilometer monorail project that will connect the Ninoy Aquino International Airport Terminal 3 to the Makati and Bonifacio Global City central business districts, a government official said Friday.

Arnel Casanova, president and chief executive of the Bases Conversion and Development Authority, told reporters Mitsubishi Corp. and Hitachi had shown interest in the country’s first monorail. BCDA has proposed the monorail.

“It’s their initiative [to look for the funding for the feasibility study]. After that, whatever the result of the study is, we will make a decision on whether the BCDA would then pursue the project and secure the funding from Japan or any other funding sources,” Casanova said, referring to the Japan International Cooperation Agency.

The BCDA has proposed to build the Makati-Taguig-Pasay Monorail alignment project to enhance mobility within Metro Manila through the construction of an elevated monorail that will interconnect with the existing rail transit network. The agency has preferred the monorail because of the narrow streets in Makati and Taguig.

Casanova said the project could be implemented with the private sector.

“Preliminary estimate cost of the project is P21 billion. But that is subject to the feasibility study,” he said.

The projected monorail system will link up with the Metro Rail Transit servicing the Edsa route, the Light Rail Transit traversing the entire length of Taft Avenue from Baclaran, Parañaque City to Monumento in Caloocan City, and the Philippine National Railways system that cuts across the Metro Manila toward the Southern Luzon.
More news on that Manila monorail project...
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Old May 5th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #3787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Actually, the average world cost of a rapid transit line is $150 to $200 million per km, while an underground line is 250 to 300 million per km, so the Yurikamome is quite representative.
Why is it so expensive if I may ask? Soil?
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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #3788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE0GRAD View Post
Why is it so expensive if I may ask? Soil?
In a word, yes.

Tunnelling is more expensive than towering.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:22 PM   #3789
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Building in Japan is expensive, the labor and building material costs are high, and everything has to be earthquake resistant that is also pushing up the price.

The price of land is also an issue. Tokyo still has some of the worlds highest land prices, even though prices have dropped consistently after the real estate bubble broke 20 years ago.

I don't think the soil conditions are a big factor in the price, for a big part of the city the soil conditions are reasonably good (not to hard, and not to soft/wet). Although with tunneling in Tokyo there's always the risk of damage to the foundations of the buildings above ground. There's no room for error here since the foundations are essential for the earthquake resistance of a building. Considering the extreme density of the city above ground, but also the existing tunnels underground makes this a huge issue that pushes the price up. Just like the higher costs for tunneling underneath historical cities.
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Japan Projects & Construction
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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #3790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calorus View Post
In a word, yes.

Tunnelling is more expensive than towering.
You don't have to tell me obvious things.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:31 PM   #3791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Building in Japan is expensive, the labor and building material costs are high, and everything has to be earthquake resistant that is also pushing up the price.

The price of land is also an issue. Tokyo still has some of the worlds highest land prices, even though prices have dropped consistently after the real estate bubble broke 20 years ago.

I don't think the soil conditions are a big factor in the price, for a big part of the city the soil conditions are reasonably good (not to hard, and not to soft/wet). Although with tunneling in Tokyo there's always the risk of damage to the foundations of the buildings above ground. There's no room for error here since the foundations are essential for the earthquake resistance of a building. Considering the extreme density of the city above ground, but also the existing tunnels underground makes this a huge issue that pushes the price up. Just like the higher costs for tunneling underneath historical cities.
As for earthquakes I taught so, but since Tokyo is in rather low level position I taught underground water levels could be a problem too. On the other hand I don't see that role the land price has to do with tunneling. All the land you need is in the beginning and the end of the tunnel ... eventually you could dig an auxiliary entrance somewhere in between to add more working fronts if you want to speed up the construction.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 08:33 AM   #3792
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Ginza line / Inokashira line

As one of those 550,000 daily commuters on the Inokashira line I've also wondered about the idea of linking to the lines.
As quashlo says it would be the most enormous engineering project to make the two lines compatible, and require a total rebuild of the Mark City station area to make it happen.

From what I observe every morning, the number of riders who carry on up the stairs to the Ginza line is insignificant compared with the number that change to the other lines , mostly the Yamanote.

And, since they are already planning a complete rebuild as part of the Tokyu station demolition when it joins up with the Fukotoshin line I cannot see there being any appetite to do it all over again.
I saw somewhere , (possibly here?) the redevelopment plans for the station,
maybe the yamanote line connection from Inokashira line will get better.
lets see.



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Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
From a railfan perspective, I've liked that idea for some time now... The Inokashira Line may seem like peanuts compared to the Keiō Line, which gets most of the investment, but the thing still pulls 550,000 riders daily, 60% of whom use Shibuya Station... And all this despite having really short trains (5 cars, 20 m each). Just from numbers, you could stand to benefit a fair number of people by removing that transfer at Shibuya.

However, it would be a massive undertaking to make it happen. The track gauge, loading gauge, car / train length, current collection, etc. are all different between the two lines. I can't recall any precedent for this type of project in Japan, although there have been major track regauging projects in the past (e.g., Keisei Line, in order to allow Asakusa Line through-servicing). To be honest, I think the most likely course of action is that they will just do a major seismic retrofit of the Ginza Line.

But it does make the mind wander… What if, for example, they completely upgraded the Ginza Line and Inokashira Line to full 10-car, 200 m trains and they redesigned Meidaimae to directly connect the Keiō Line and the Inokashira Line (alternatively, they could build a new connection from Shimo-Takaido to Higashi-Matsubara)? This would allow for much better use of Keiō’s two-terminal arrangement. A connection at Asakusa into the Tōbu Isesaki Line would not be impossible, although it would likely require a new tunnel underneath the Sumida River that then surfaces to interface with the Isesaki Line on the opposite bank. Narihirabashi could then be redesigned as a traditional through-service arrangement with four tracks and there would be another line providing direct service to the Sky Tree site.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 11:36 PM   #3793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE0GRAD View Post
As for earthquakes I taught so, but since Tokyo is in rather low level position I taught underground water levels could be a problem too. On the other hand I don't see that role the land price has to do with tunneling. All the land you need is in the beginning and the end of the tunnel ... eventually you could dig an auxiliary entrance somewhere in between to add more working fronts if you want to speed up the construction.
Are you some sort of 'teacher' of engineering?
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Old May 7th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #3794
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Quote:
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You don't have to tell me obvious things.
In defense of Calorus, your question was a bit ambiguous... It was unclear whether you were asking why tunneling is more expensive than elevated or why Japan is more expensive (than other countries). High costs for underground lines are generally the norm everywhere, although there may be some countries that can build for cheaper, the most notable being perhaps Spain.

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Originally Posted by BE0GRAD View Post
On the other hand I don't see that role the land price has to do with tunneling.
I think Momo1435 already kind of answered your question... Consider that condemning any buildings will require (fair market value) compensation, and that if you want to avoid lengthy and costly negotiations with property owners, the only option is digging deeper underground, which will also inflate your cost. It may also mean you have to go underground instead of going with a substantially cheaper elevated alignment... You only have to look at lines with "suburban" underground alignments like the Tōyō Rapid Railway (the approaches into Nishi-Funabashi or Katsutadai).
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Old May 7th, 2012, 11:51 PM   #3795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
In defense of Calorus, your question was a bit ambiguous... It was unclear whether you were asking why tunneling is more expensive than elevated or why Japan is more expensive (than other countries). High costs for underground lines are generally the norm everywhere, although there may be some countries that can build for cheaper, the most notable being perhaps Spain.
Yes, now I see. I was asking about Japan being more expensive. That price per kilometer really looks astronomical. The first Belgrade metro line is estimated at around one billion and it runs from one side of the city to the other. Although partly above ground ,still the cost of tunneling per kilometer is far less than 300 million.

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Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
I think Momo1435 already kind of answered your question... Consider that condemning any buildings will require (fair market value) compensation, and that if you want to avoid lengthy and costly negotiations with property owners, the only option is digging deeper underground, which will also inflate your cost. It may also mean you have to go underground instead of going with a substantially cheaper elevated alignment... You only have to look at lines with "suburban" underground alignments like the Tōyō Rapid Railway (the approaches into Nishi-Funabashi or Katsutadai).
I understand, but still I wonder if there isn't more engineering related reasons for the elevated price aside seismic ones ... like high underground water levels per example?
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Old May 8th, 2012, 03:13 AM   #3796
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Groundwater is an issue, especially when you need to build deep like you generally do in Tōkyō… For one example, there were serious issues with groundwater uplift impacting the underground Sōbu Line platforms (Level B5) at Tōkyō Station.

Anyways, it's a bit difficult to compare projects in different places, as a lot simply depends on the local conditions... You’ve got to make sure that you’re comparing comparable things. Aside from the things already mentioned, here’s a few more factors to consider:
  • Tunnel diameter: Most systems in Tōkyō and Japan are powered by overhead to ensure compatibility with existing lines and allow for through-servicing. As a result, this generally requires larger tunnel diameters.
  • Station spacing: Not specific to Japan, but important to consider when you are trying to compare across different projects. Particularly for short lines, the number of stations can become a large contribution to the total construction cost.
  • Station size: Full-length trains are usually around 200 m. Combine with the occasional need to provide passing tracks or additional platforms to allow for cross-platform transfers or limited-stop service, and the need to interface with existing stations (some of which can be fairly extensive and deep), and the resulting volume of total space underground can be quite large.
  • Water crossings: Again, not specific to Japan, but important to consider when trying to compare across multiple projects.
Here’s two projects, both in Yokohama, that easily illustrate just how much the cost can vary from one project to another:

Yokohama Minato Mirai Line
6 new stations
4.1 km
Large, deep stations (including two at Level B5)
Multiple water crossings
¥260 billion (¥63 billion per km)

Yokohama Municipal Subway Green Line
10 new stations
13.1 km
Linear-motor “mini-subway”, small trains
¥245 billion (¥19 billion per km)

Anyways, there's a good sample of recent metro projects globally here:
http://pedestrianobservations.wordpr...ruction-costs/

You’ll see that the costs in Tōkyō are maybe slightly on the higher end of the spectrum, but aren’t vastly different from the projects list for the UK or Germany, and cheaper than the New York projects cited. When you consider the other factors mentioned previously like seismic design considerations, a large amount of existing underground infrastructure, etc., I don't think we can really describe the costs as "astronomical". There are also many projects elsewhere in Japan that are much closer to the ¥20 billion per km number, like the Sendai Municipal Subway Tōzai Line and Hanshin Namba Line.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #3797
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New Yotsubashi Line extension surfaces as possible alternative to Naniwasuji Line
http://www.nikkei.com/news/local/art...E2E2EBE0E0E4E5

Quote:
 大阪府市統合本部の地下鉄改革プロジェクトチーム(PT)は7日までに、大阪市内を南北に走る市営地下鉄四つ橋線を延伸し、北を阪急電鉄、南を南海電鉄と接続して、新大阪―関西国際空港間を直結する新たな鉄道網構想をまとめた。同区間については「なにわ筋線」構想があるが、費用を抑えられる可能性があるという。統合本部は今後、阪急や南海に協力を求める方針。

 PTは8日に開く府市統合本部の会合で新構想を提示する。新構想が実現すれば、京阪神各地から関空へのアクセスが改善する。ただ市営地下鉄と阪急、南海はレール幅や給電方式が異なるうえ、事業費の負担割合など課題は山積している。

 関係者によると、JR大阪駅北側の再開発地区「うめきた」に、四つ橋線西梅田駅と阪急十三駅を結ぶ延伸路線「西梅田・十三連絡線」(約2.9キロ)を敷設する。阪急電鉄が国から事業認可を得ながら着工を凍結している十三―新大阪間の「新大阪連絡線」(約2キロ)が完成すれば、四つ橋線は新大阪のほか京都・神戸方面にもつながる。

 南海電鉄とは、なんば駅での接続を想定。ただ高架を走る南海と地下鉄を接続する必要があるうえ、四つ橋線と南海線はレール幅など仕様が全く異なる。異なるレール幅に対応できる新型車両の投入を議論し、相互乗り入れが難しい場合は、ホームを隣接させるなどして乗り換えを容易にすることを検討する。

 事業費の見通しは西梅田・十三連絡線が約950億円、新大阪連絡線は330億~400億円。南海との接続に必要な事業費は未算定だが、関係者は「(事業費1800億~3200億円とされる)なにわ筋線より安価」と説明している。

 現在、新大阪―関空間はJRの特急が走っており、所要時間は約50分。新構想ではこれよりも時間短縮を目指す。着手時期は市営地下鉄を民営化して以降になるという。
Officials in the Subway Reform Project Team, part of the main agency looking at the consolidation of Ōsaka City and Ōsaka Prefecture, proposed a new plan to extend the Ōsaka Municipal Subway Yotsubashi Line, tieing into both the Hankyū and Nankai networks and creating a direct connection from Shin-Ōsaka and Kansai International Airport (KIX). The proposal is intended to be a cheaper alternative to the Naniwasuji Line, which would build an entirely new subway line from Shin-Ōsaka to Namba, where it would connect into the JR Hanwa Line and Nankai Main Line to reach KIX.

The plan involves constructing the Nishi-Umeda – Jūsō Link, a 2.9 km connection between the Yotsubashi Line’s Nishi-Umeda Station and Hankyū’s Jūsō Station. If the Shin-Ōsaka Link, a 2 km connection between Jūsō and Shin-Ōsaka that Hankyū already has government approvals for but is currently on hold, kicks up again, it will allow Yotsubashi Line trains to run to Shin-Ōsaka or destinations on the Hankyū network including Kyōto and Kōbe.

The southern connection into the Nankai Line is a bit more complex, as Nankai Namba is an elevated station, and the Nankai network is narrow-gauge, while Hankyū and the Yotsubashi Line are standard gauge. Officials are looking at the possibility of variable-gauge trains for the service, but will settle for a cross-platform transfer if that idea proves too difficult. There’s also the other (significant) design issue related to current collection, as the Yotsubashi Line is powered by third rail while both Hankyū and Nankai use overhead lines.

In terms of cost, the Nishi-Umeda – Jūsō Link is estimated at approx. ¥95 billion and the Shin-Ōsaka Link at approx. ¥33 billion to ¥40 billion. The cost of the Nankai connection is uncertain, but officials say the overall cost of the project can still be kept under the estimated cost of the Naniwasuji Line (¥180 billion to ¥330 billion).

I suspect that today’s urban planners in Ōsaka must be kicking themselves for the mistakes of the past… They designed the municipal subway to function as a completely independent system from the private railways... In reality, they would have been much better off staying out of the subway business and letting the private railways extend all the way through central Ōsaka, or designing the subway network to be 100% compatible with the private railways (just like Tōkyō). They’ve also whittled away a lot of money on some questionable projects (the Imazatosuji Line comes to mind immediately).
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Old May 8th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #3798
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Upgrades to JR Hiroshima Station stalling
http://www.nikkei.com/news/local/art...E2E2EBE0E0E4EA

Quote:
 JR広島駅周辺の整備計画が混沌(こんとん)としている。広島電鉄が駅前南口で計画する新路線「駅前大橋線」は、広島市が提示したJRの駅に乗り入れる際の構造を巡り選定が難航。北口ではバス、タクシー乗降場などを巡り、市の再編案に業界団体が難色を示す事態が起きている。



■距離と時間短縮

 「広島電鉄の広島駅前新線計画は全国でも注目度が高い」。4月14日、超党派の国会議員で構成するLRT(次世代型路面電車)推進議員連盟は広島駅周辺を視察し、議連として、新線の設置を支援していくことに意欲を示した。議員視察には広電やJR西日本広島支社などの幹部が広電の路面電車に同乗。市中心部の町並みや交通体系について説明した。

 広電が新線を計画するのは市中心部と広島駅南口を結ぶ路線の時間短縮を図るためだ。現在は、広島駅に向かう際、東側に大きく迂回(うかい)しているが、路面電車のため駅周辺でのバスやタクシーなどの混雑に巻き込まれやすい。広島駅に直線で進む新線を設置し、稲荷町の電停から広島駅までの距離を現行の800メートルから200メートル短縮、市中心部からの所要時間も15分程度を約5分短縮したい考えだ。

 広島市は2010年8月、駅前南口の再整備計画を話し合う検討委員会を設置。道路上を通る「平面案」(事業費30億円)、南口地下広場の下を通る「地下案」(同250億~300億円)、南口広場に高架を設置して駅ビルの2階部分に上る「高架案」(70億~100億円)を提示している。

 平面案は事業費が最も少なく抑えられるというが、タクシーやマイカーなどを含めた駅前の交差点が混雑することが想定される。高架案は路面電車が斜面の走行に耐えられるかが課題を残す。地下案では設計が可能かどうかの判断も必要となる。

 広電の越智秀信社長は「高架案は急勾配で上れないし、平面は渋滞を招く可能性がある。可能なのは地下案だけだ」と強調。事業費も140億円と想定している。一方、JR西日本広島支社の杉木孝行支社長は「広島駅のメーンの乗り換えの動線は2階のため、(高架化案が)有効だと考えている」と話している。

 広島市道路交通局公共交通計画担当の品川弘司課長は「3案が技術的に可能かどうかを検討している」としており、今夏にも技術的な検証結果を提示する予定。事業者からは広島の街のあり方に大きな影響があるにもかかわらず、結論が出ないまま月日がたってしまったことだけに「早く結果を出してほしい」との声が高まっている。

■北口でも課題

 北口の交通計画も難航している。現在、北口は西側がバスとマイカー、東側がタクシーの広場だが、西側をバスとタクシーに東側をマイカー専用に再編する計画。だが、業界団体は市に「接触事故などの安全面の課題が多い」との要望書を提出した。

 北口では「二葉の里地区」の開発、南口でも大型の商業施設やマンション開発の計画も進む。これら再開発のあり方も新しい交通体系の影響を大きく受けるだけに、その整備を急ぐ機運は一層の高まりを見せている。

(広島支局 花井悠希)
At the South Exit of the station, there is some dispute over how to integrate the new Hiroshima Electric Railway (Hiroden) alignment into the JR station. The current Hiroden route takes a substantial detour that unnecessarily increases travel distance and travel time, with trams getting stuck in all the bus, taxi, and car traffic. Hiroden wants to build a new alignment via the main bridge on the south side of the station, allowing for a straight shot in that shaves 200 m of the one-way travel distance and a whole 5 minutes off the journey between Hiroshima Station and the center of the city.

Currently, there are three options on the table: a surface-street option (¥3 billion), an underground option beneath the South Exit underground plaza (¥25 billion to ¥30 billion), and an elevated option into the second level of the station (¥7 billion to ¥10 billion). The surface-street option is cheapest, but offers the least benefit, as trams will still be stuck in street traffic. An elevated option would present potential grade issues for the trams, while there are obvious design and engineering issues to be considered with an underground alignment.

Apparently, Hiroden is set on an underground alignment, which it estimates to cost ¥14 billion. JR West, on the other hand, is pushing for an elevated alignment, as main on-foot circulation through the station occurs at the second level of the station anyways. The lead agency on the city side will announce the results of its feasibility studies on the three options this summer.

At the North Exit of the station, there’s also some issues related to plans to redesign the North Exit station plaza.

Scenes at Hiroden Hiroshima Station.
This would make for an interesting elevated station…

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Old May 8th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #3799
starrwulfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo
I suspect that today’s urban planners in Ōsaka must be kicking themselves for the mistakes of the past… They designed the municipal subway to function as a completely independent system from the private railways...
You better believe they are. Back in my Osaka days (2000-04) I met some Osaka Transportation Board workers who were planners on the then under construction Imazato-suji line. I asked them out of all the subway lines in the city, only the Sakai-suji line connect to a private operator (in this case, Hankyu) to provide for thru-servicing?) The answers were convoluted but they all agreed money was the main factor-- mainly the financing schemes involved. Hankyu kicked in a third of the money for the Sakai-suji line's construction, and there was talk at one time about having JR themselves do thru-servicing on the Yotsuyabashi line from Namba to Osaka station, but JR balked (it was the beginning of turning from JNR to JR West at the time, from what I've been told) thus the current situation.

Still, think how Osaka would've become different if there were Toyko style through running. For example, perhaps Kintetsu's Osaka line would branch from Yao somewhere and feed into the Sennichimae line. Or the Tanimachi line would handle Nankai trains... Interesting to think about indeed.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #3800
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Compared to Tokyo, the relations between JR/JNR and the private railways in Kansai have always been more adverserial/competitive (most private railways in Kanto adopted 1067mm gauge b/c they interchanged freight with JNR). The idea of interline running or interchange of freight had no strong tradition with the Kansai Railways essentially being street railways evolved into interurbans (Nankai and Kobe Dentetsu excepted), and then you had the municipal subway stuck in the middle.

*As for the Yotsubashi Line, just extend it and allow cross platform transfers with Hankyu and Nankai. Forget variable gauge (what a potential headache). There already is JR West Haruka for people coming from farther out in Kyoto and Shiga. I don't think Mayor Hashimoto would be too keen on building a brand new subway line when existing lines could be linked.

Last edited by k.k.jetcar; May 8th, 2012 at 09:32 AM.
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