daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture

Architecture news and discussions on all buildings types and urban spaces
» Classic Architecture | European Classic Architecture and Landscapes | Public Space | Shopping Architecture | Design & Lifestyle | Urban Renewal and Redevelopment



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools
Old October 6th, 2010, 09:49 PM   #81
Rev Stickleback
Registered User
 
Rev Stickleback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,107
Likes (Received): 1925

Quote:
Originally Posted by messitadeluz View Post
I will go to the british islands "X" and build a colony there, so then i could have the "self determination" argument....LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS.-
Do it 200 years ago and it would probably work.

Back then any country could pretty much go round and claim any bit of land they wanted, which is what the Spanish and Portuguese did when claiming much of South America, and is what Britain did with the Falklands.


The British were also the first settlers on the islands.


The sad thing is Argentina could probably have got them back in some form had they continued down diplomatic lines, and sold the change to the Islanders.

The '82 invasion rendered the whole issue non-negotiable.


ps, posting up maps showing the islands name Malvinas doesn't really prove anything. I can post up plenty of maps showing a country in the middle of Europe called Germany, but that doesn't mean the people who live there are mistaken in thinking they live in Deutschland.
Rev Stickleback no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old October 6th, 2010, 10:58 PM   #82
tricolor87
Buenos Aires
 
tricolor87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: República Tricolor
Posts: 1,435
Likes (Received): 24

PUERTO ARGENTINO, CAPITAL DE LAS ISLAS MALVINAS:

__________________
Argentina.. Feliz :)

jon35es liked this post

Last edited by tricolor87; October 8th, 2010 at 12:38 AM.
tricolor87 no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 12:14 AM   #83
messitadeluz
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 47
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Stickleback View Post
Do it 200 years ago and it would probably work.

Back then any country could pretty much go round and claim any bit of land they wanted, which is what the Spanish and Portuguese did when claiming much of South America, and is what Britain did with the Falklands.


The British were also the first settlers on the islands.


The sad thing is Argentina could probably have got them back in some form had they continued down diplomatic lines, and sold the change to the Islanders.

The '82 invasion rendered the whole issue non-negotiable.


ps, posting up maps showing the islands name Malvinas doesn't really prove anything. I can post up plenty of maps showing a country in the middle of Europe called Germany, but that doesn't mean the people who live there are mistaken in thinking they live in Deutschland.
WRONG, Argentina had people living there and the british came ilegally and made a settlement, UK has any right in the south atlantic lands, and will never have...we cannot allow colonialism in the 21th century...and thats the end of the discussion
messitadeluz no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 01:49 PM   #84
Piltup Man
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Marseille
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 52

Who cares about all this anyway?

Interesting that this thread is now 5 pages long... with only one post (the first one) actually dedicated to photographs of Stanley (or Puerto Argentino to those who prefer).
Piltup Man no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 03:37 PM   #85
soycordobes13
Registered User
 
soycordobes13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Córdoba, Argentina / Chongqing, China
Posts: 1,098
Likes (Received): 179



Latin America cares, we don't want colonies anymore here... brother.

This thread would be provocative, also offensive for many people, and for sure his author already knew it before post it.
soycordobes13 no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 04:27 PM   #86
Occit
生命是要离开自己的安乐窝
 
Occit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Harbin, China
Posts: 6,907
Likes (Received): 2857

Nice ARGENTINIAN islands, i wish to be there sometime to drink mate and eat asados dancing Tango with cyan flags waving there
__________________
Harbin, China's Ice City!
Occit no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 04:28 PM   #87
strandeed
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Posts: 650
Likes (Received): 107

Can somebody please deal with these Argentine nationalists? There is no debate, the islands are British and will always remain British.

Argentina has more important things it should be concentrating rather than lamenting over idle fantasies.

I for one am rather cross that this nonsense has been allowed to continue.

Now please... Lets concentrate on the islands themselves.

They do look very barren, I wonder how the farmers manage to extract anything from the soil. Heavy use of fertilizers I would imagine.
strandeed no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 09:26 PM   #88
White Shadows
Fairplay
 
White Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Argentina
Posts: 6,104
Likes (Received): 3654

ISLAS MALVINAS ARGENTINAS
Argumentos del reclamo y reseña histórica por la
Reivindicación de los Derechos Soberanos




Acaso por la vigorosa acción descolonizadora que cumpliera las Naciones Unidas especialmente durante los años 60 y por el incansable reclamo Argentino sobre su integridad territorial, o los errores políticos cometidos en el tratamiento del caso, la gestión ha perdido parte de su impulso.Lo cierto es que el desembarco Argentino en las Islas provocó oportunamente gran sorpresa en los Foros Mundiales.

El apoyo popular que recibiera el Gobierno Militar en la Plaza de Mayo, el 10 de Abril de 1982 ,más allá de los grandes errores logísticos y diplomáticos, más allá de poder discutir si fué correcta o no la decisión, contrastaba con la indiferencia y el desconocimiento del pueblo Inglés. Decir Kelper, para ellos era decir Ciudadano de cuarta categoría.


ARGUMENTOS HISTORICOS

1º- La ocupación de las Islas Malvinas en Junio de 1771 por una fuerza de Infantería Española, en nombre de la Corona.

2º- La Gobernación del Archipiélago ejercida entre 1822 y 1831 por el comerciante Luís Vernet, quien fuera acompañado por su familia y un grupo de colonos, hecho que consolida los Derechos Territoriales heredados de la Corona Española.

3º- El hecho definitorio de que las Islas Malvinas, las Sandwich del Sur, y las Georgias del Sur, forman parte de la Plataforma Submarina Continental Argentina.


CRONOLOGIA DE LA OCUPACION

1504 - El navegante Florentino Américo Vespucci llega a las Islas empujado por una tormenta, y lo registra en su " Lettera a Soderini " en el mes de Setiembre del mismo año.

1520 - Magallanes avista las Islas, dentro de la zona que la línea de Alejandro VI, traslada en Tordesillas a 370 leguas de las Açores y Cabo Verde, asignaba a España la propiedad de cualquier hallazgo.

1540 - Luego de haber sido dibujadas en los mapas de Pigafetta, cronista de la Expedición de Duarte Barbosa, Pedro Reinal en 1522, Diego Rivero en 1529 y Alonso de Santa Cruz en 1541; la visita de una nave de Camargo en 1541 a Malvinas y posteriores mapas de Sebastian Caboto en 1544, Bartolomé Olives en 1562 y otros, confirman la existencia del Archipiélago.

1592 - El Capitán Davis, se convierte en el primer Inglés en avistar las Islas.

1600 - El Holandés Sebald de Weart llega a Malvinas.

1690 - El Capitán Inglés John Strong es el primer Británico que desembarca en el Archipiélago y le da el nombre de Falkland por un burgo y un castillo en el Condado de Fife en Escicia.

1701 - Los pescadores de ballenas del Puerto de Saint Malo, hacen conocer las "Maluines"
( Malvinas). Los Borbones, ya ocupaban el Trono de España.

1748 - El historiador Inglés Samuel Johnson ( 1709 - 1784 ), relató que el Reino armó en 1748 varias Corbetas para investigar a las Islas Pepys y Falkland, y hacer nuevas exploraciones en el Mar del Sur. La razón de la Corona de España fué tan airada, que los ingleses desistieron de la expedición, lo que implica un reconocimiento de la Soberanía Española.

1764 - El navegante francés Bouganville, ocupa el Puerto Soledad y poco después lo llama San Luís. La Corona Española vuelve a hacer oír su protesta y el marino se retira pacíficamente en 1767, como él mismo lo relata. en " Voyage autour du Monde ".

1769 - El Capitán de Navío Español Felipe Ruíz Puente, Gobernador de las Islas Malvivas, ordena la retirada de un grupo de ingleses que desembarcó en Puerto Cruzado rebautizándolo Puerto Egmont. Posteriormente, el mismo Gobernador ordena el retiro de otra escuadra británica al mando de Antonio Hunt, pero éste se resiste.

1770 - Al mando de una escuadra de seis buques, el Capitán de Navío español, Juan Ignacio Madariaga, ataca a la fragata inglesa " Tamar ", ante la resistencia de Hunt de abandonar Malvinas, y logra la rendición de los británicos. Al cabo de cinco años, concluía así el único antecedente de ocupación que exhibieron los ingleses, y que había sido sin duda alguna por la fuerza, incluso circunstancia que el Parlamento de Londres desconocía. Los españoles se instalaron pacíficamente en 1767 con caracter permanente.

1771 - La tensión entre las dos grandes potencias de entonces, llevó a la Corona Española a autorizar la presencia de los ingleses en Puerto Cruzado, bajo el compromiso de no vulnerar la Soberanía Ibérica y de devolver en poco tiempo ese enclave a sus dueños. Así se hizo, y en 1774, los británicos devolvieron Puerto Cruzado al Gobernador Español y abandonaron el lugar.

1811 - Tras las sucesivas guerras de Independencia Americana, España deja Puerto Soledad.

1820 - El Capitán David Jewett, Comandante de la Fragata Argentina "Heroína", toma poseción de las Malvinas en nombre de las Provincias Unidas.

1823 - El aborigen Guaraní Pablo Aretagui, nacido en Misiones, se convierte en el primer Gobernador Argentino de las Islas Malvinas.

1828 - El comerciante Luis Vernet, obtiene importantes concesiones del Gobierno Nacional Argentino para trabajar en las Islas, y en 1829 es nombrado Gobernador. Instalado allí con su familia y un grupo de colonos, en 1830 nace en las Islas su hija Malvina.

1831 - Ante la cerrada defensa que hace el Gobierno Argentino de las especies animales de las Islas, el buque de guerra de bandera norteamericana Lexinton, ataca y destruye Puerto Soledad para proteger a los cazadores de ballenas. La protesta Argentina es reconocida por la Corte Federal de Massachussetts.

1833 - Gran Bretaña que necesitaba un puerto de descanso en su ruta a Australia y Tasmania, siendo en esos momentos la mayor potencia naval del mundo, resuelve apropiarse de las Islas Malvinas. El 2 de Enero, el Capitán John James Onslaw, al frente de la Corveta Clio, obliga al Comandante del Buque de Guerra Argentino "Sarandí", José María Pinedo a abandonar las Islas. El Gobernador de Buenos Aires y Jefe de Relaciones Exteriores de la Confederación, Don Juan Manuel de Rosas protesta ante los representantes británicos, pero no obtiene respuesta alguna.

1834 - Llega a las Islas el primer Gobernador Inglés, Henry Smith.

1842 - Arriban a las Islas, 18 pobladores traidos por la Corona Británica.


LOS BRITANICOS EN LAS MALVINAS

La principal corriente de británicos instalados en Malvinas, llegó entre fines del Siglo XIX y comienzos del XX. La Falkland Island Company que controla todo el comercio exterior y gran parte del comercio interior, ha sido un poder paralelo y quizá más decisivo que la administración británica. Dicha empresa, es dueña de casi el 50 % de las tierras (las más ricas) y de la mayoría de las estancias, de las cuales solo unas pocas no comercia su lana a través de la misma. Prácticamente, se puede decir que tiene el monopolio en la provisión de mercadería a las haciendas. Unas 600.000 ovejas, producen aproximadamente tres millones de kilogramos de lana por año. Entre las riquezas a explotar comercialmente están el Krill, crustaceo de gran valor proteínico que es abundante en la zona, los vapuleados recursos posibles de hidrocarburos y la pesca, en éstos momentos amenazada por el accionar depredador de naves pesqueras de origen europeo y asiático que se apiñan de a miles para la pesca del calamar y otras especies ictícolas.


FINALMENTE

El Apartado seis de la Resolución 1514 de las Naciones Unidas expresa:

TODO INTENTO ENCAMINADO A QUEBRANTAR TOTAL O PARCIALMENTE LA UNIDAD NACIONAL DE UN PAIS, ES INCOMPATIBLE CON LOS PROPOSITOS Y PRINCIPIOS DE LA CARTA DE LAS NACIONES UNIDAS.


Que se haga Justicia.

LAS MALVINAS FUERON, SON Y SERAN ARGENTINAS.


http://digilander.libero.it/lu7ee/Notas/mal_p_pyf.htm
__________________
ARGENTINA- ҉҉ ___This Monkey is Disappointed in You
White Shadows no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #89
Rev Stickleback
Registered User
 
Rev Stickleback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,107
Likes (Received): 1925

Quote:
Originally Posted by messitadeluz View Post
WRONG, Argentina had people living there and the british came ilegally and made a settlement, UK has any right in the south atlantic lands, and will never have...we cannot allow colonialism in the 21th century...and thats the end of the discussion
Right, so the descendants of the settlers in North & South America, as well as Australia all have to get out as well?


The was no such thing as settling illegally back then. Anybody was free to move to just about any country they wished. Those settlers in the 1830s could have just as easily moved to Argentina without hindrance. Illegal immigration is a much more modern concept.


The UN displeasure with colonialism never had anything to do with historical claims over land. It was always about peoples being governed by an unwelcome foreign power, which is what they regard as colonialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Shadows View Post
El Apartado seis de la Resolución 1514 de las Naciones Unidas expresa:

TODO INTENTO ENCAMINADO A QUEBRANTAR TOTAL O PARCIALMENTE LA UNIDAD NACIONAL DE UN PAIS, ES INCOMPATIBLE CON LOS PROPOSITOS Y PRINCIPIOS DE LA CARTA DE LAS NACIONES UNIDAS.
Sadly for you there's never been any suggestion that such ideas will be backdated. How far do you go back? 200 years? 500? 1000? Do we give most of Europe back to the state of Rome? Do we reistate the lands of Persia?

Last edited by Rev Stickleback; October 7th, 2010 at 10:16 PM.
Rev Stickleback no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 10:31 PM   #90
Rev Stickleback
Registered User
 
Rev Stickleback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,107
Likes (Received): 1925

Quote:
Originally Posted by strandeed View Post
I for one am rather cross that this nonsense has been allowed to continue.

Now please... Lets concentrate on the islands themselves.
.
OK, I've said more than enough....no more.

Some more pictures

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/111...53136079cPLifS



http://travel.webshots.com/photo/100...3322NAwGPYJMhD



http://sege.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_archive.html



It's often said that you really need to be an islander to really appreciate living in such a place. You'd have to be the type who regards the isolation as a positive rather than a negative.
Rev Stickleback no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 10:56 PM   #91
White Shadows
Fairplay
 
White Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Argentina
Posts: 6,104
Likes (Received): 3654



Section six of Resolution 1514 United Nations:
“ Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. ”


Year 1833: Britain needed a port of rest en route between Australia and Tasmania (at that time, the British Crown was the greatest naval power in the world). Then decide to invade the Malvinas Islands. On January 2, the Captain John James Onslaw, in front of the Corvette Clio, forcing the Commander of the argentine warship "Sarandi", José María Pinedo, to leave the islands. The Head of Foreign Affairs of the Argentinean Confederation, Don Juan Manuel de Rosas, protested to the British representatives, but no response.

Year 1834: Brought to the Islands the first English governor, Henry Smith.
Year 1842: Arrived on the islands 18 people brought in by the British Crown. And you call them: citizens of the islands wiht right to self determination.

Is that clear?
__________________
ARGENTINA- ҉҉ ___This Monkey is Disappointed in You

Last edited by White Shadows; October 8th, 2010 at 10:06 PM.
White Shadows no está en línea  
Old October 7th, 2010, 11:43 PM   #92
nachop666
fortis crus et temperatus
 
nachop666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Provincia Invencible de Santa Fe
Posts: 1,385
Likes (Received): 4260

nachop666 no está en línea  
Old October 10th, 2010, 12:16 AM   #93
Maipo Valley
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arica
Posts: 3,118
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by tricolor87 View Post
y la Patagonia es Argentina
so? we are not whining about it
Maipo Valley no está en línea  
Old October 10th, 2010, 12:50 AM   #94
Maipo Valley
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arica
Posts: 3,118
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
That's the worst thing in these stupid nationalistic arguments. Argentina is a multicultural nation settled by the descendants of immigrants from many countries including Britain. There are many common kin between the two countries. Argentina was a modern vigorous country - how sad that they still feel the need to wallow in that petty resentment and in so doing degrade themselves in the eyes of the world. It really surprised me that it came out in this thread.
probably the better post in this thread
Maipo Valley no está en línea  
Old October 10th, 2010, 05:41 AM   #95
nachop666
fortis crus et temperatus
 
nachop666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Provincia Invencible de Santa Fe
Posts: 1,385
Likes (Received): 4260

no tenés dignidad
nachop666 no está en línea  
Old October 10th, 2010, 08:19 PM   #96
Maipo Valley
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arica
Posts: 3,118
Likes (Received): 7

por no pensar como tu? entonces eres nazi
Maipo Valley no está en línea  
Old October 10th, 2010, 10:29 PM   #97
tricolor87
Buenos Aires
 
tricolor87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: República Tricolor
Posts: 1,435
Likes (Received): 24

juajua que se puede esperar de éstos lacayos de los piratas...
__________________
Argentina.. Feliz :)
tricolor87 no está en línea  
Old October 10th, 2010, 11:15 PM   #98
sanes_tuc
Registered User
 
sanes_tuc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tucumán - Argentina
Posts: 300
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by tricolor87 View Post
juajua que se puede esperar de éstos lacayos de los piratas...
que se puede esperar de los chupamedias de margaret thatcher?

Solo con ver el nombre de algunos colegios y el termino que usan para siertas cosas tan... "british" creyendo que queda super "top".. para darte cuenta y Latinoamerica por suerte sabe que tan chupamedias son.


Hermosas las Islas Malvinas!

ISLAS MALVINAS: FUERON, SON Y SERAN ARGENTINAS.
sanes_tuc no está en línea  
Old October 11th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #99
madjackmcmad
Registered User
 
madjackmcmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London
Posts: 3,979
Likes (Received): 6

Ah yes the usual. One country made up of transplanted people from Europe 200 years ago thinks it has the right to tell another group of transplanted people from 170 years ago what they should and shouldn't do in 2010. Smells like colonialism to me.

How ungrateful were these people in 1982 that they didn't cheer the invading Argentine? I mean who else would refuse the offer of giving up a democratic living to live under a dictatorship who liked throwing its citizens out of aeroplanes for jollies!
madjackmcmad no está en línea  
Old October 11th, 2010, 01:45 AM   #100
mexico86
외국인
 
mexico86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,680
Likes (Received): 1289

Ah, another one of these threads. As usual, the argentine nationalist morons are here with no arguments other than "the islands were, are and always will belong to argentina" or 'pirates go home, you don't belong 300 km from latin america because you don't speak latin". As usual, some morons from other latin american countries pop up to support their argntine brother's insane lost cause. As usual, forumers from Britain, Europe, USA and Chile (an island of erudition on a generally backward continent) make reasoned arguments and hoist the argentines by their own petard. But it's to no avail, because you can't reason somebody (the argentines) out a belief they didn't reason themselves into (the insane idea that non argentine islands belonging to argentina).
__________________
- We are in the age of 'unenlightenment'.

Charlie Brooker.
mexico86 no está en línea  


Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu