History of Chennai

[kannan infratech]

Originally Posted by Arul Murugan

Fusi,

Parangimalai derived from Brungi malai and it is from Brungi Munivar.

So Brungi Munivar ---------> Brungi Malai-------->Parangimalai-------->St.Thomas Mt.

http://devapriyas.indiainteracts.com...-nandampakkam/

Somebody told me that it was called Firangi (Popular slang for british in India) Malai.

[Anniyan]

Parangi + malai = Parangimalai

parangiyar = foreigners

[Fusionist]

Originally Posted by Anniyan

Parangi + malai = Parangimalai

parangiyar = foreigners

I don't thinkthis is accurate. But yes in the 15th to 18rh century not-foreigners but European invaders came to be called Parangi.

It originally was meant to address Portuguese, then later on to British and French. What do you think is the origins behind this ?

Even in South East Asia foreigners are called Firangi, after 'Frank', a common name for a westerner.

However back to Chennai, I think the name Parangi came ONLY into existence after the Portuguese invaded the Tamil Nadu coasts. Is there any mention of the word Parangi ( as far as I know ) to address foreigners prior to 15/16th century ?

So the term Parangi Malai obviously would have come into existance only AFTER the Portuguese colonised Mylapore and the hilllock which they renamed St Thomas Mount. The name Parangi Malai itself has its origins there and no historical significance.

The other side being, the name Parangi could have had its origins after this hill and spread on to other regions, as Mylapore was one of the first Portuguese invasions in Asia. But then the name theory is only speculation.

[Fusionist]

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

Madras pattinam was called as Madras, Sadhuranga Pattinam (near kalpakkam) was called Sadras. (Easy for the English tongues)

Kannan, I dont think thats accurate. Madarasapattinam itself was totally unheard of except after the British.

After the Madre de Deus Church was installed by the Portuguese near Mylapore the locals who were prosyletised would have been forced or cohersed to 'rename' thier village by the Portuguese masters ( just like how KK Nagar or JJ Nagar was created ) and then retained the 'pattinam' to retain the local naval/martial roots.

The name Madrasapattinam itself is an amalgamation of a Portuguese name for 'mother' ( after Mother Mary ) and a village title 'pattinam' would have had its origins just a few decades before the British arrived. The name possibly was not even existence before that.

[Fusionist]

Originally Posted by Arul Murugan

Fusi,

Parangimalai derived from Brungi malai and it is from Brungi Munivar.

So Brungi Munivar ---------> Brungi Malai-------->Parangimalai-------->St.Thomas Mt.

Interesting find, but I would be skeptical about it. There could be credence to the story of Brungi Munivar. Hindu saints meditatin in caves and hill locks is very possible. If Brungi Munivar meditated on top of the hill itcould verywell have been called Brungi Malai for sure.

Does this mean the origins of the word Parangi to denote Portuguese has its origins here ? I dont know. The Portuguese spread the false theory of the Apostle St Thomas being burried in a Mount world over after they colonised Mylapore. The name Parangi could have spread from there on aswell.

But then again there is no enough evidence. For all I know the locals started calling the hill lock as Parangi Malai only after it was occupied by the Portuguese. Why ? Because they for some reason started using the name Pasrangi to call the Potuguese. Maybe it was called something else before. It would be interesting to find out more about this.

[Anniyan]

Originally Posted by Arul Murugan

Fusi,

Parangimalai derived from Brungi malai and it is from Brungi Munivar.

So Brungi Munivar ---------> Brungi Malai-------->Parangimalai-------->St.Thomas Mt.

Did that guy also live Parangipettai, near Chidambaram?

[Fusionist]

Originally Posted by Anniyan

Did that guy also live Parangipettai, near Chidambaram?

Parangipettai yet again is a new 'Tamilised' name of foreign origin. It was originally called Muthukrishnapuri and was popular port under the Nayaks. It was raided latr by the Nawabs and then colonised by the Portuguese.

Potruguese called it 'Portonovo'. Then it gradually got 'localised' by distorting age old local customs and traditions, so that the newly prosyletised Christians can still feel at 'home' under thier new religion. Hence the popularisation of the term 'Parangipettai'. The name Parangipettai has absolutely NO historical connections, and was pure 'Tamilisation' of a Colonial conquest.

[Arul Murugan]

Originally Posted by Anniyan

Did that guy also live Parangipettai, near Chidambaram?

Dont know!!
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The hill was addressed as 'Brungi Malai' even as late as 1910!

Now Sri Nandeeshwarar Temple is located near the St.Thomas Railway Stattion, from where Brungi Malai could be seen clearly. Stone Inscriptions are also available in this temple about the history of Brungi Malai.

3 temples:
Nandeeshwarar temple, Kothandaramar temple, Ramalingeshwar temple shows the history with Brungi munivar. All the three temples were built much before the Portuguese landed in Chennai.

Hill temples surrounding Chennai:

1. Kudrathur - Murugan hill temple
2. Thirusoolam
3. Aapur
4. Thirukalukundram
5. Thiruneermalai
6. Pallavaram hill temple...

So most of the hills had temple on its top!

[ranga]

Originally Posted by Fusionist

How the British really came to own Chennai region

British annexed the Entire Nawab of Arcot Region including Chennai using the illegitimate Doctrine of Lapse policy.



What is this doctrine of Lapse ?



How British gained control of Mylapore & Triplicane



How can people discard all these and claim Madras was 'founded' by the British as they legally purchased a few acres to set up a factory from a nobody in a nearby village ? Absurd.

Are the nawabs of Arcot locals or foreigners like the europeans?

[Anniyan]

Originally Posted by ranga

Are the nawabs of Arcot locals or foreigners like the europeans?

why you got that doubt? Is it because Nasser Hussein looks like an european?

Nawabs are urdu speakers from persia/northern part of the subcontinent.

[ramvaradan]

Kabaleeswarar temple, Triplicane Parthasarathy temple -- the landmarks within the heart of Chennai are all dated to be atleast 10 centuries old. Despite all that, there's still a claim that British founded Chennai, just because they set sail to there. Adayar, Mylapore .. if you watch those old classic movies they talk of them being villages. Our history book is dictated by western view point even when it comes to Indian ancient history.

[Fusionist]

Originally Posted by ranga

Are the nawabs of Arcot locals or foreigners like the europeans?

I asume this is a sarcastic question ?

[Fusionist]

Originally Posted by ramvaradan

Kabaleeswarar temple, Triplicane Parthasarathy temple -- the landmarks within the heart of Chennai are all dated to be atleast 10 centuries old. Despite all that, there's still a claim that British founded Chennai, just because they set sail to there. Adayar, Mylapore .. if you watch those old classic movies they talk of them being villages. Our history book is dictated by western view point even when it comes to Indian ancient history.

When it comes to Indian national history there has been some change. For example people don't still go and claim 'Vasco da Gama discovered India'.. even though the odd books claiming such views are still available.

But when it comes to Chennai history, the old books that claim 'Francis Day founded Madras 300 years ago' still holds good. Thanks to our clever think tanks and political protectionism of Colonial traditions.

There is a War Memorial in Chennai, to commomorate the World War 2 soldiers, even though the city hardly featured in the war. The beaches of Chennai was itself the scene of brutal wars between the locals and Potuguese, French and the British, between the Golconda, Nayaks & Nawabs against the Europeans, thousands of life, a lot of damage to property, heritage would have occured, yet NO memorial, let alone acceptance of this fact in history books. Sad.

[barrykul]

A lot of temples in the South have inscriptions on stone walls. Some perhaps in old tamil language. Has anyone bothered to decipher these inscriptions. I am sure there is lot of work that needs to be done in this area alone.

BTW, the Nehru dynasty /Congress made a deliberate attempt to sideline the maharajas of India to create the Republic of India. The Communist Pinkos deny the existence of India. Clearly, not all of these maharajas were saints, but they were the de facto rulers of Indian territory. The Nayaks/Nawabs did their best to beat the Europeans - there are numerous accounts of rulers trying their best. Tippu Sultan is a great example of the resistance towards British Rule. The accounts/tales of these warriors needs recognition in the nation.

Nawabs are urdu speakers from persia/northern part of the subcontinent.

Persian was used in the courts of Muslim rulers but their origins were Uzbekistan/Turkmenistan mostly.

[ramvaradan]

Originally Posted by barrykul

A lot of temples in the South have inscriptions on stone walls. Some perhaps in old tamil language. Has anyone bothered to decipher these inscriptions. I am sure there is lot of work that needs to be done in this area alone.

BTW, the Nehru dynasty /Congress made a deliberate attempt to sideline the maharajas of India to create the Republic of India. The Communist Pinkos deny the existence of India. Clearly, not all of these maharajas were saints, but they were the de facto rulers of Indian territory. The Nayaks/Nawabs did their best to beat the Europeans - there are numerous accounts of rulers trying their best. Tippu Sultan is a great example of the resistance towards British Rule. The accounts/tales of these warriors needs recognition in the nation.

Persian was used in the courts of Muslim rulers but their origins were Uzbekistan/Turkmenistan mostly.

I think Tipu's revolt was also around the sametime as Kattabomman, but the fact the Tipu was a 'Sultan' and a 'warrior' class .. puts his revolt along
the line of 'execution of duty'

Kattabomman story is a classic example of one of the first 'common class' stiffing up to the Brits. The tyrannic chieftain rose to the moment when he was insulted and rebuke spurred him to be a hero. The story of his resistance is a chilling folk-lore of one of the earliest rebuttal to British. I also think 'Kattabomman' too has enough 'shadiness' and to make his story intriguing. Although, storylines/dialogues of Ma.Po.Si just glorified his whole lifehistory .... 'Manjal araithhu ..' etc.

[Arasu]

What do you guys think? Parangikai is foreign to our country?

[MA Eswaran]

Originally Posted by ramvaradan

I think Tipu's revolt was also around the sametime as Kattabomman, but the fact the Tipu was a 'Sultan' and a 'warrior' class .. puts his revolt along
the line of 'execution of duty'

Kattabomman story is a classic example of one of the first 'common class' stiffing up to the Brits. The tyrannic chieftain rose to the moment when he was insulted and rebuke spurred him to be a hero. The story of his resistance is a chilling folk-lore of one of the earliest rebuttal to British. I also think 'Kattabomman' too has enough 'shadiness' and to make his story intriguing. Although, storylines/dialogues of Ma.Po.Si just glorified his whole lifehistory .... 'Manjal araithhu ..' etc.

Kattabomman case is some thing different.

What we saw in flim having shivaji acting like kattabomman is different from the one actually lived.

Infact he was paying taxes to British for quite some time. Old revenue records show he was paying it. Later on due to differeneces with British on some reason other than patritotism, he strated fighting

[ramvaradan]

Originally Posted by MA Eswaran

Kattabomman case is some thing different.

What we saw in flim having shivaji acting like kattabomman is different from the one actually lived.

Infact he was paying taxes to British for quite some time. Old revenue records show he was paying it. Later on due to differeneces with British on some reason other than patritotism, he strated fighting

Yes, true. The fact he was subservient in the past or took on British due to some personal angst would not diminish the valour. Even, Mohandas turned metamorphosed to a Gandhi only after a personal insult. When a submission to an authority or a prevalent practice is considered status-quo, not too many people have the intellect to think out of the box and even if they do, they do not have the oppurtunity or the guts to act on it. This applies to any social/political injustice.

There are many records/gazettes that consider Ka.Bo as a ruthless or even a dacoit. But his martyrdom overshadows that, in my opinion fairly so. Infact, Ka.Bo's fight fuelled a few others such as Maruthu brothers.

[Anniyan]

Originally Posted by Arasu

What do you guys think? Parangikai is foreign to our country?

It was imported to India for Halloween

[Fusionist]

Originally Posted by Arasu

What do you guys think? Parangikai is foreign to our country?

I think it used to be called Mathangai or sivatha poosanikkai. Obviously Parangi kai is a new term.

so d oyou think 'Theneer' is a historical Tamil name ? Tea itself was new to India, and 'theneer' is a collaboration of tea=the and neer=water. These are Colonial era terms.

But anyways, back to the Parangi issue, since you chose to discuss, are you claiming Portuguese invaders and Christianity was indiginous ot Inda. Please elaborate to me please, with reasoning.