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Old August 12th, 2010, 02:52 PM   #261
Fatfield
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In Britain, cars, along with ships, are referred to in the female sense ie "she's a beauty" when commenting on the aesthetics of a car. This got me thinking of what car names would be in Slovakian.......

Fiat Unocova
Skoda Fabiacova
Bugatti Veyroncova
Porsche Targacova
Seat Ibizacova
VW Touaragcova
Ford Mondeocova

They do actually sound right.

Can't think of anymore off the top of my head. Perhaps some regional variations may be better eg Opel Kadett was called Vauxhall Astra in Britain.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 03:19 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Columbus is an evergreen: every language has its own version

We italianize English Royal Family members (Elizabeth is Elisabetta, Charles is Carlo), but strangely enough, William is William and not Guglielmo, and Henry is Henry and not Enrico... who knows why...
Maybe because they are the younger generation, born after Italy stopped italianizing names.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 03:22 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Sometimes you latinize. Nicolaus Copernicus - org. Mikołaj Kopernik.
That's true, but only during medieval times up to XVII century, when people latinize their own name. Another example is Carl von Linné which is Carolus Linnaeus in Latin and Carlo Linneo in Italian, or Renée Descartes -> Renatus Cartesius in Latin and Renato Cartesio or Renato Delle Carte in Italian...
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Old August 12th, 2010, 03:28 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
and why does it happen that consonant takes role of vowel? exactly because of schwa. try to find a word where "r" acts consonant in Bulgarian language
i dont speak Bulgarian.
You can not say that schwa is vowel in our languages, it just doesn´t exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
In Italian we used to italianize foreign names until circa 1950s. Now we don't but some names are still italianized: Isacco Newton, Abramo Lincoln, Giorgio Washington
we did/do the same thing:
Franz Josef = Franjo Josip
Jeanne d`Arc = Jovanka Orleanka
etc.

Last edited by Bad_Hafen; August 12th, 2010 at 03:36 PM.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 03:58 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatfield View Post
In Britain, cars, along with ships, are referred to in the female sense ie "she's a beauty" when commenting on the aesthetics of a car. This got me thinking of what car names would be in Slovakian.......

Fiat Unocova
Skoda Fabiacova
Bugatti Veyroncova
Porsche Targacova
Seat Ibizacova
VW Touaragcova
Ford Mondeocova

They do actually sound right.

Can't think of anymore off the top of my head. Perhaps some regional variations may be better eg Opel Kadett was called Vauxhall Astra in Britain.
We add only "-ová" (not "-cová") after woman surnames.

And in some cases the last character have to be changed or ommited: - e.g.:
Seat Ibizova.
But it is just hypothetical because we use suffix -ová only to surnames.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 04:05 PM   #266
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As long as you have this habit for Slovakian women, it doesn't matter :-) Some years ago a Hungarian sport team (FTC Budapest female handball team) had a match in Slovakia (Sal'a) and the speaker in the sport hall put this -ová to Hungarian players' names as well (I mean girls that are Hungarian both ethnically and by citizenship). It was weird, just like seeing Bridget Jonesová in a cinema's ad ;-)
It`s so long used and old that we are using it always . Btw, yes. Cezchs also doing this. (but it is not neccesery, sometime we use normal name without "ová")

if I am sure "ová" was also used in Croatia till 18 century.

some foreign names for example

Angela Merkelová
Alžbeta II. - Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsorová
Kate Middletonová

etc
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Old August 12th, 2010, 04:08 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post
but it is not neccesery, sometime we use normal name without "ová"
Yes Angelina Jolieová sounds bizzare
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Old August 12th, 2010, 04:09 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Sometimes you latinize. Nicolaus Copernicus - org. Mikołaj Kopernik.
Mikuláš Kopernik in Slovak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza
Columbus is an evergreen: every language has its own version
Krištof Kolumbus

by the way, guys we are a little bit OT

and I am using too much
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Old August 12th, 2010, 04:23 PM   #269
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I know it well... My sister's wedding was hold in Serbia (his husband is from Serbia, but ethnically Hungarian). Unfortunately the wedding's documents were printed using the Latin/English alphabet not the Cyrillic one, but using this strange way of spelling. Since both our family name and that of her husband has some specific letters, the official documents spell their names different way than they use it originally. My sister had a lot of problem with those documents in Hungarian public offices, officers usually did not beleive it is her name...

Not any more. The new law says that the names of minorities must be written originaly.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Hafen View Post
i dont speak Bulgarian.
You can not say that schwa is vowel in our languages, it just doesn´t exist.
It does, we just don't write it. By the same logic, the English 'r' is a vowel too, because it's pronounced 'ar'. Even 'y' is more of a vowel than 'r'.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 06:34 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post

for example

Slovak Prime Minister - Iveta Radičová is in Croatian Iveta Radič
Iveta Radič would be in Slovenian. in Croatian it would be Iveta Radić
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Hafen View Post
i dont speak Bulgarian.
You can not say that schwa is vowel in our languages, it just doesn´t exist.
as Verso explained - it exists, but we don't write it anymore. if you are in linguistic mood, try to learn a bit about Old Church Slavonic language, which is ancestor of slavonic languages. you can find even more schwas there: ъ and ь (jor and jer). in Croatian, Serbian and Slovenian it has shaped into vowels (excellent example is old slavonic word for day - dьnь - where first schwa is today just "a" - dan. bla bla. in elementary school you learn that r i vowel, but in secondary school teachers should learn you about that stuff (my did).
Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post

if I am sure "ová" was also used in Croatia till 18 century.
i wouldn't bet on it. maybe if they had some northern origin (Czech, Slovak, Polish...). Ana Katarina Zrinski (feminized surname would be Zrinska, and she appears in that form, too), Cvijeta Zuzorić, Anica Bošković etc. often their names were hungarized or italianized (Cvijeta Zuzorić is known as Flora Zuzzeri )
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Old August 12th, 2010, 06:51 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
Iveta Radič would be in Slovenian. in Croatian it would be Iveta Radić
You also use č and it`s not so easy for my to find difference between ć and č in Croatian language, because I am always just listening, without reading or any text.

(toto je na wiki: mäkké Ć (mäkšie než Č, prevzaté z poľštiny)

Quote:
i wouldn't bet on it. maybe if they had some northern origin (Czech, Slovak, Polish...). Ana Katarina Zrinski (feminized surname would be Zrinska, and she appears in that form, too), Cvijeta Zuzorić, Anica Bošković etc. often their names were hungarized or italianized (Cvijeta Zuzorić is known as Flora Zuzzeri )
I found it once on the internet, I bet it was on Wikipedia.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 06:55 PM   #273
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as Verso explained - it exists, but we don't write it anymore. if you are in linguistic mood, try to learn a bit about Old Church Slavonic language, which is ancestor of slavonic languages. you can find even more schwas there: ъ and ь (jor and jer). in Croatian, Serbian and Slovenian it has shaped into vowels (excellent example is old slavonic word for day - dьnь - where first schwa is today just "a" - dan. bla bla. in elementary school you learn that r i vowel, but in secondary school teachers should learn you about that stuff (my did).
I have learned that both in primary and secondary school. And i know all of that, but than you can write schwa before almost every l and n (palatal). exmp. mlijeko mьlijeko.
Church Slavonic is not ancestor of Slavonic languages it is only one redaction that was never used outside of the church and it appeared when words from Russian entered Old Slavic and Serbian language and it was used manly by Serbian and other Orthodox Churches. ( I think you missed few lectures).
The point is that you can not write every sound you make.
You can not say Trst without that schwa because it is impossible, there are thousands of similar examples in almost every language (i guess)
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Old August 12th, 2010, 06:57 PM   #274
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You also use č and it`s not so easy for my to find difference between ć and č in Croatian language, because I am always just listening, without reading or any text.
č is similar to English chair or children
and ć is like Italian ciao.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 07:41 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
It does, we just don't write it. By the same logic, the English 'r' is a vowel too, because it's pronounced 'ar'. Even 'y' is more of a vowel than 'r'.
It's only a vowel in rare cases, and even then mostly in American pronunciation which tends to murder "normal" vowels. For example, the word "burp" - the U doesn't really exist at all.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 08:14 PM   #276
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č is similar to English chair or children
and ć is like Italian ciao.
Is "ć" pronounced like sth. between t and č?

I've heard speaking native Croats about city Metković and "ć" sounds from native speaker slightly different like "č".
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Old August 12th, 2010, 08:17 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Bad_Hafen View Post
I have learned that both in primary and secondary school. And i know all of that, but than you can write schwa before almost every l and n (palatal). exmp. mlijeko mьlijeko.
Church Slavonic is not ancestor of Slavonic languages it is only one redaction that was never used outside of the church and it appeared when words from Russian entered Old Slavic and Serbian language and it was used manly by Serbian and other Orthodox Churches. ( I think you missed few lectures).
The point is that you can not write every sound you make.
You can not say Trst without that schwa because it is impossible, there are thousands of similar examples in almost every language (i guess)
i'm not talking about Church Slavonic. Old Church Slavonic is what we call staroslavenski jezik, which indeed is predecessor of both Croatian and Serbian, just as Russian as well (which is excellent example of old Slavic words, because today's Russian use plenty of them)
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Old August 12th, 2010, 08:19 PM   #278
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Is "ć" pronounced like sth. between t and č?

I've heard speaking native Croats about city Metković and "ć" sounds from native speaker slightly different like "č".
yes. ć is very similar to hungarian ty.
it depends of region. for instance, in my region you will probably not hear the difference between č and ć. the largest difference is in Istria, where they say almost "t" instead of "ć".
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Old August 12th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #279
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yes. ć is very similar to hungarian ty.
it depends of region. for instance, in my region you will probably not hear the difference between č and ć. the largest difference is in Istria, where they say almost "t" instead of "ć".
You know that Istra is a kind of my place in a Croatia and I didn`t know about that! I have to pay more attention when someone speaks (next time).

heh, sentence like "mi ćemo doć" might sound pretty funny in Istrian accent.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 10:48 PM   #280
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Istria is not good example they say tj instead ć

Quote:
Is "ć" pronounced like sth. between t and č?
no.
"ć" is pronounced like in italian ciao.
type in goggle translator word cell in English to translate it in Serbian it is ćelija and you will hear it
than type wait čekati
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