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Old July 9th, 2011, 01:18 AM   #461
aswnl
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"Interdiction de stationner" ??

In France I've always seen signs "Stationnement interdit"

And why translate a complete regular sign in Europe into 8 languages... ?
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Old July 9th, 2011, 01:26 AM   #462
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It means the same thing. Like in Portuguese you could say: Estacionamento Proibido or Proibição de Estacionamento, or Não Estacionar, although the first is most common.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 04:53 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
"Interdiction de stationner" ??

In France I've always seen signs "Stationnement interdit"

And why translate a complete regular sign in Europe into 8 languages... ?
(Psst. It's in Zeebrugge and it's in more than one language. Don't question it, and don't report it to certain politicians. Just be thankful. And don't tell W***ie I said this.)
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Old July 9th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #464
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BTW; they forgot to write a "r" in Spanish (It's "No aparcar").
But we use more "Prohibido aparcar".
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Old July 9th, 2011, 12:05 PM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
It means the same thing. Like in Portuguese you could say: Estacionamento Proibido or Proibição de Estacionamento, or Não Estacionar, although the first is most common.


Something like in Spanish. It is written "No aparcar" when they should had translate as "prohibido aparcar" (it is the most common sentence in those cases).

It is as if in English they decide to write "No parking" or "parking banned" or "parking not allowed" or...


translation between language are not word-to-word. It could be normal in latin languages but not always.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Most of us (regardless of the nationality) agree on the issue of exonymes. Germans, however, prefer to leave things 'as is'. The reason for this is the simple fear of a specific horrible, hairy word, the CHANGE (enter some dramatic music). And that would be followed by even more ugly, scary word, the ADJUSTMENT (dramatic music at full volume).

When Germans hear those words, the palms of their hands sweat, the LOGIC in this industrious nation is suddenly lost, and forth comes the FEAR. The need to preserve the STATUS QUO. Look at the post by Germanicus, it contains no arguments -- there's something about having to learn "all the names of cities in surrounding countries". But isn't it the basic courtesy to know such things? And is your GPS map in your language, or is it in the local language, at most transliterated if the alphabet is different?

Roll it all up together, if the largest nation in EU has no courtesy to learn some geography, I say we leave them behind. Another PISA-like report will wake them up in 20 years, and there will me "much rejoicing".

LMB (living in Germany, and adjusted to the changes)

Calm down, mate. Even though you disagree with me, there is no need to get angry and offensive.

If you think, it is unnecessary or harmful to put up signs with exonymes you can simply say so and provide some arguments instead of writing such an utter bullshit. The German education system has nothing to do with it, neither has the language of a GPS device nor your personal problems with Germany.

I still think a roadsign should always provide the local exonyme and the offical name. The local exonyme to serve the locals and because the local language is the official language in that country and the exonymes to serve those, who don't speak the local language. It sounds fair and reasonable and is the current practice in Germany.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 10:40 PM   #467
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Apart of that... look for the faster way between "Huesca" and "Fiscal" (or another Pyrenees town) and... I am sure you will be directed by a road not opened yet!.

It doesn't matter the GPS system you use... I have seen some people on the cross where road is cut because not opened yet looking alternatives on a paper map (a lot of technology and... finally using a normal map).


P.S. Today Google maps is correct for that way but there was a time that I checked four of five different navigators on-line and the same mistake in the middle of mountains... One 3 km tunnel still on works (estimated to be opened next january after 12 years on works) appeared as opened.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 10:44 PM   #468
alserrod
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Originally Posted by Germanicus View Post
Calm down, mate. Even though you disagree with me, there is no need to get angry and offensive.

If you think, it is unnecessary or harmful to put up signs with exonymes you can simply say so and provide some arguments instead of writing such an utter bullshit. The German education system has nothing to do with it, neither has the language of a GPS device nor your personal problems with Germany.

I still think a roadsign should always provide the local exonyme and the offical name. The local exonyme to serve the locals and because the local language is the official language in that country and the exonymes to serve those, who don't speak the local language. It sounds fair and reasonable and is the current practice in Germany.


Anyway, technology should be more "intelligent" that us.

At Spain, official name for a town is set by regional government. If there is a regional official language, that will be the official. For example, every one who enters Spain from Mediterranean will see Girona. It is the catalan name. In Spanish it is call Gerona. Only a character of difference, but sometimes there are more different.

Most of Spanish will call every town with the language they use even if the official one is in another language.

And... navigators usually accept both languages with no problem

For example... try to get the best way from anywhere to "Gerona" (official and unique name is "Girona" but in Spanish the name is "Gerona")
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Old July 12th, 2011, 05:21 PM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
"Interdiction de stationner" ??

In France I've always seen signs "Stationnement interdit"

And why translate a complete regular sign in Europe into 8 languages... ?
At Clacket Lane Services on the M25 near London, they've got a no parking sign in a few principal languages:

No Waiting
Stationement Interdit
Polish Jiberish
Keine Parken
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Old July 12th, 2011, 11:37 PM   #470
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I thought that this sign was interesting. I'm going to take a wild guess about what the sign on the other side of the river says





ESPANHA
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Old July 12th, 2011, 11:39 PM   #471
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Where's the river?
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Old July 12th, 2011, 11:42 PM   #472
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Around the corner (it is zee border)
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Old July 12th, 2011, 11:42 PM   #473
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I've never seen a Spanish sign stating a place name in Portugal before, apart from a local sign creating a shortcut coming from Salamanca... But never on motorways, they normally signpost Portugal until you're in... Portugal.

New, right?
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Old July 12th, 2011, 11:43 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
At Clacket Lane Services on the M25 near London, they've got a no parking sign in a few principal languages:

No Waiting
Stationement Interdit
Polish Jiberish
Keine Parken
Actually, there is no Polish on that board. As far as I remember it's written "Ne parkovat' " in Czech.
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Old July 12th, 2011, 11:48 PM   #475
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Actually, there is no Polish on that board. As far as I remember it's written "Ne parkovat' " in Czech.
I thought they had something in Polish as well - zwieriezworiezwarie - looked a bit like that...

It's just that German bit that tickled me a little...
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Old July 12th, 2011, 11:54 PM   #476
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Probably. Apparently, well according to CNGL, new signs in Spain state Portuguese cities, but there aren't many of those. As far as I'm aware there are no such signs in Portugal yet, then again, the signs that say "ESPANHA" are put in places where its a bit obvious which crossing would be used (there aren't very many, even where there are villages on either side of rivers), and I would imagine that most cross border traffic is Portugal-France/Luxembourg, so major Spanish cities aren't so relevant and are far away from any major Portuguese cities.

I have actually seen this in person. On the motorway that goes to Badajoz, on the Spanish side, when you drive towards Elvas, the signs say Portugal for Elvas and towards the Portuguese A6, but there is a separate exit for the Portuguese town of Campo Maior, which is signed. I would imagine that there are signs to Olivenca/za for political reasons, although this example is grafitti. Ajuda is the name of the ruined bridge between the cities

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Old July 13th, 2011, 12:02 AM   #477
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Well, there you have it. It would make sense when the Spanish do start stating Portuguese place names - the Portuguese have rapidly been building new motorways, and on the Spanish side as well, although not quite at the same speed, and there are more major border crossings now.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #478
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The new major border crossings are at the same places the old ones were anyway
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Old July 13th, 2011, 12:10 AM   #479
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Well yeah, but they are even more major now that they've connected the motorways together.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 12:45 AM   #480
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....I would imagine that most cross border traffic is Portugal-France/Luxembourg, so major Spanish cities aren't so relevant and are far away from any major Portuguese cities....
This is the sort of thing that surprises me: even with Schengen, and the end of the Cold War (which wasn't relevant to Spain and Portugal anyway - I mean they weren't on opposite sides) and the Euro, are European countries really that disconnected from their neighbors? Of course, that's a generalization, and of course the people on this very forum would suggest otherwise. But I'd think there'd be plenty of Portuguese people day-tripping or shopping or whatever in nearby areas of Spain. And vice versa.

One Friday during my summer of study in France, someone on the university staff told me one Friday she was going away for the weekend. I asked, "Where?" and she said, "I don't know; maybe England, maybe Germany - I'll just take the first train." 26 years later I still remember that conversation: I envied her and envy you all for having so much cultural, linguistic and historic diversity within reach. If I ever became independently wealthy, I'd just move to Paris or Brussels or some place for a year or two and alternate between enjoying the city and exploring the country and continent....
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