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Old April 13th, 2009, 12:44 AM   #61
Muttie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Those signs are also in the North of Spain, especially in summer months, in order to guide the Morocann, Algerian and Tunisian people who live in Europe and go back to their countries during their holidays.

Here you have one in Madrid: http://maps.google.es/?ie=UTF8&ll=40....1917189066737

They basically say either Algeciras or Almería, the two main ports with ferries to Africa.
So they actually remove those signs after the summer period?
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Old April 13th, 2009, 01:21 AM   #62
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I always found the bilingual sign near Koper quite funny: Semedela / Semedella
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Old April 13th, 2009, 02:14 AM   #63
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I always found the bilingual sign near Koper quite funny: Semedela / Semedella
Beware Pince/Pince.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 02:20 AM   #64
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That's waiste of taxpayers's money
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Old April 13th, 2009, 02:57 AM   #65
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Some new bilingual signs in France. Before, the road signs were only unilingual French, but since a few years ago, in line with what's happening in other European countries, a lot of billingual signs have appeared in France. Personally, I find it stupid to translate all the road signs in the regional languages that few people speak anymore. Oftentimes, it makes the signs too complicated and hard to read. Lots of people complain about it. I heard the same complaints in Scotland where many signs in the Highlands are now billingual English/Scottish Gaelic, which many Scottish people find confusing.

Bilingual signs French/Breton in Britanny. Completely excessive.


French/Basque signs, in the French Basque country. Again, it defeats the purpose of informing motorists.


Bilingual signs in Corsica. Here the Corsican nationalists have covered the French names with black ink.


Signs indicating the entrance and exit of towns and villages have also been translated into the local regional languages in recent years. This has happened in many places. 20 years ago, there were no such signs. In some cases the sign in the local regional language is smaller and with a different color, in order to be a cultural reminder but not to confuse motorists. For example here this town in Roussillon has its official sign in French, and a smaller sign indicating the name of the town in Catalan, the original language of Roussillon (spoken today by only a third of people in Roussillon). I think this is the best way to proceed: small sign for cultural purposes, different enough from the official sign in order not to confuse motorists.


In other places they use the same sign formats as the official French signs (same format and colors), which is very confusing. Here for example at the entrance of this village in Eastern Britanny they have added the name of the village in Gallo below the French name. Gallo is a Romance dialect akin to French; it is completely different from Celtic Breton (Celtic Breton was not spoken in Eastern Britanny, only Gallo was spoken). Today extremely few people still speak the Gallo dialect, yet they added the Gallo name in big letters and on a sign identical to the official French sign, which is way overboard in my opinion.


Here you have four villages in southern France, in the area where Occitan was the historical regional language. As you can see, each village has its own policy. All have added the Occitan name of the village, but some have added only a smaller cultural sign, while other have added an Occitan sign almost ressembling the official French sign. The last village to the bottom right seems to have a completely separated Occitan sign (is there also a French sign? it would be illegal not to have one).


In Nice, they have added the name of the city in the Niçard dialect (a dialect akin to Occitan), and they use signs identical to the official French signs for that. That's a bit ridiculous considering that almost nobody speaks the Niçard dialect anymore in Nice these days.


Funny enough, in Alsace, which is the French region where the regional language is spoken by most people (still two-third of Alsatians can speak it), whereas in Corsica, Britanny, and the French Basque Country far less people can speak the regional languages, there are almost no Alsatian signs on the roads. Almost all the signs are French only. That's probably because Alsatians were traumatized by their annexation by Germany, so there is no demand for bilingual road signs, whereas in regions where the regional languages are dying such as Britanny there are demands for bilingual signs. Here some road signs in Alsace, all in French, despite the fact that most people around can speak the Alsatian dialect:
image hosted on flickr


This new trend of adding signs in regional languages has led to some excesses. In Britanny, in the département of Morbihan, which lies on the historical language border between Romance dialects (Gallo) and Celtic Breton, the departmental council, led by a president who doesn't even speak Breton, has made Breton road signs mandatory in the entire département, including in the eastern part of the département where Breton was not spoken.

Some mayors in the eastern part of Morbihan are opposed to having bilingual signs in Breton. They say it's a waste of tax payers' money (200 euros per sign), and it's artificial since Breton was not spoken in their territory. Some of them put black tape to hide the translated Breton names (these translated Breton names are invented by the Office of the Breton Language which is in the hands of some minority Breton nationalists, and these translated names are not based on anything historical, according to the mayors).

Link for further information: http://aosb.free.fr/





"Abusive use of Breton on road signs" says this local article (this is near Rennes, in an area where Breton was never spoken):


In Roussillon, where one-third of people can still speak Catalan, the departmental council wanted to add some Catalan signs on the A9 motorway linking France to Spain which would have said "Benviguts a Catalunya Nord" ("Welcome to Northern Catalonia"), but the French State refused those signs last year. Only the French State can decide which signs go on the motorways (contrary to local roads).

It's beyond me how these local politicians did not understand the political consequences of such signs, and the territorial claims behind the "Northern Catalonia" name. That's the kind of excesses going on in France at the moment in reaction to 200 years of official unilinguilism.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 04:56 AM   #66
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Better than this unreadable 'Pliberk', representing a third of the town's population:



But we're getting nationalistic. No wonder, brisavoine showed up.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 10:27 AM   #67
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Brisavoine does have a good point though. Bilingual signage is always in line with language strives, and go past the actual purpose of those signs; informing those unknown to the area.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 01:40 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
"Dišava" is fragrance or spice.

Those old signs in Croatia were saying "Kopar/Capodistria", but no "Koper". And I bet Croats pronounce it [koper] instead of [kopər], so they better stick to [kopar].
Quote:
Originally Posted by paF4uko View Post
When you go north from Pula to the Slovenian border you have those "Kopar" signs all along the "brza cesta".
i doubt because all new direction signs in HR have only original names of foreign cities, and B9 from viaduct Limska Draga to north has onlynew direction signs (that viaduct is just after intersection with B8 in Kanfanar).

Verso is right - Kopar can be seen on most old signs, while Koper is on new (i have explained why). here is the proof:

old


old


new


new


unfortunately, i don't have any photo from B9
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Old April 13th, 2009, 04:43 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
i doubt because all new direction signs in HR have only original names of foreign cities, and B9 from viaduct Limska Draga to north has onlynew direction signs (that viaduct is just after intersection with B8 in Kanfanar).

Verso is right - Kopar can be seen on most old signs, while Koper is on new (i have explained why). here is the proof:
I don't know if those were new or old signs, but I saw it on several places on my trip from Medulin to Trieste this summer.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 06:47 PM   #70
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Is "Fıume" in Turkish?
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Old April 13th, 2009, 06:51 PM   #71
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Is "Fıume" in Turkish?
that was exactly my thought
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Old April 14th, 2009, 06:02 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Those are the best examples I've seen. The even include the proper accents over Győr and Zwardoń.

Kudos to the administration, obviously their nationalism hasn't won with their professionalism. And there obviously are "unresolved national issues" in Central Europe.
But why ZWARDOŃ ?! It's a little village near the border... Why the Slovaks haven't signed Bielsko - Biała for example ?
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Old April 14th, 2009, 06:09 PM   #73
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Stragne that Koper and Trieste are not bilangual, but Umag/Novigrad and Rijkea are.

Since when is Trieste signed in Italian, and not only Trst?
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Old April 14th, 2009, 06:24 PM   #74
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Stragne that Koper and Trieste are not bilangual, but Umag/Novigrad and Rijkea are.
Well, Trieste is officially monolingual, but Rijeka is too. I also miss "Centro".

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Since when is Trieste signed in Italian, and not only Trst?
Since independence, I suppose.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 06:44 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
Stragne that Koper and Trieste are not bilangual, but Umag/Novigrad and Rijkea are.

Since when is Trieste signed in Italian, and not only Trst?
that's actually part of croatian precise rules for foreign destinations. so, bilingual can be signed only places inside Croatia. foreign destinations are signed in original language and in official language in whole country (so foreign bilingualism is not considered)
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Old April 14th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel_PL View Post
But why ZWARDOŃ ?! It's a little village near the border... Why the Slovaks haven't signed Bielsko - Biała for example ?
Is Zwardoń the location of the border post?
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Old April 14th, 2009, 10:55 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel_PL View Post
But why ZWARDOŃ ?! It's a little village near the border... Why the Slovaks haven't signed Bielsko - Biała for example ?
I agree signing of Zwardoń is useless there. Much better would be Bielsko-Biała and Ostrava or Český Těšín. I hope new sections of D3 closer to the borders will have signs with mentioned destinations

Quote:
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Is Zwardoń the location of the border post?
Yes.
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Old July 24th, 2009, 06:55 PM   #78
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Lost in translation, somewhere on a road in Greater Tokyo.



PS: Personally I'm fortunate that I can read Japanese, so if you're curious what the sign means, well it means "Drop your speed!!" Note that the characters on the first line are simply a phonetic transcription of the English word "speed" (these characters are read "supiido"). It's typically Japanese (post WW2-Japan) to use English words everywhere, just not in the Latin alphabet. A Chinese person would find that very weird (there is of course a word with Chinese characters to express the concept of speed, so no need to transcribe phonetically the English word "speed").
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Old July 24th, 2009, 08:42 PM   #79
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Signage in Lebanon is bilingual (arabic and french)



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Old July 24th, 2009, 09:13 PM   #80
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It would look more classy if they had the same franco-arabic signage in Dubai.
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