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Old September 5th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #801
Dolph
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I still believe that for countries like mine should be used one universal(for all road signs) signage. Today the most common language is English, so lets use it.
And for tourists, there is no problem, because in Bulgaria the majority of the tourists are from Russia,UK,Scandinavia,Greece and a bit Germans.
Russians read perfectly Bulgarian signs, all of the rest are ok with the Eng. translation.
One other thing that pisses me off is that we use as a direction to other country the last possible village or town in Bulgaria, but not mentioning the big city in the neighboring country. For example we use Kulata instead ot Солун/Thessaloniki in Bg/Eng. Or Svilengrad insted of Istambul....It's like this from Soviet times.
I hope they(authorities) change this way of signing.

And the Latin should be dropped out..
ENG LATIN
Sofia Sofiya
Bulgaria Bulgariya
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Old September 5th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #802
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In Spain, if more than one languages it is usual to write in English and French... but you can find it in other languages... as Portuguese (think that every Portuguese has to cross Spain to go anywhere).

It is not common to see different languages as well international pics do not require them.

The exemptions can be found near French or Portuguese border with signals only Spanish/French or Spanish/Portuguese (for instance texts like "this way only for trucks" written in Spanish and French only... just besides a border)



In the case of tourism, of course English is almost everywhere... but where I have been on holidays for a lot of years, people on resorts learnt before French rather than English, just because many more tourists from France (and money is money)


What it was surprised for me was finding airports at Canary Islands all of them in Spanish, English and German with no exemptions (in official signals) and it is not the only one...
Normally, almost all of them, in Spanish and English (and second official language like Basque, Galician, Catalan... if apply)
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Old September 5th, 2012, 09:35 PM   #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph View Post
And the Latin should be dropped out..
ENG LATIN
Sofia Sofiya
Bulgaria Bulgariya
Isn't the Latin transliteration of "България" Balgari(y)a? And I've never seen Sofiya on signs. Sofija would be ok (that's how we call it), but it's a Slavic transliteration, not English.

Last edited by Verso; September 7th, 2012 at 10:16 PM.
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Old September 5th, 2012, 09:35 PM   #804
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Are Portuguese and Spanish close enough that you can read Portuguese and understand it even if you haven't studied it? (Does anyone in Spain study it, for that matter?)
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Old September 5th, 2012, 09:53 PM   #805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Isn't the Latin transliteration of "България" Balgari(y)a? And I've never seen Sofiya on signs. Sofija would be ok (that's how we call it), but it's a Slavic transliteration, not English/Germanic/Western.
I believe there is a law(in BG) not to use J but Y when translating into Latin,long story .........tensions with Serbia in the past if I'm not mistaken.
The correct Latin translation of Bulgaria should be B'lgarija......."nice"
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Old September 5th, 2012, 10:28 PM   #806
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Are Portuguese and Spanish close enough that you can read Portuguese and understand it even if you haven't studied it? (Does anyone in Spain study it, for that matter?)


Yes, they are close enought... but also enough differences to have to know both languages to a full understanding.

In Spain there are no many places to study Portuguese, but someones you can find. As an example... in my University it was able to study several languages as a grade complement where including Portuguese as one of them.
But I think that in all the city (5th in Spain but far away from Portugal) there is no other place to study it.

In north-west Spain it is spoken Galician which is very, very, very close to Portuguese.
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Old September 5th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Let's have some Jamaican English in Bulgaria then. A little bit of Carribean culture in a Slavic country...
Already happened

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Last edited by piotr71; September 7th, 2012 at 07:51 PM.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #808
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Quote:
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Are Portuguese and Spanish close enough that you can read Portuguese and understand it even if you haven't studied it? (Does anyone in Spain study it, for that matter?)
Yeah, spoken word is harder for one to understand the other though, although there are large enough differences for bilingual signage to make sence in some situations. I think that they Portuguese is part of the curriculum in the region of Extremadura. I think that most students in Portugal learn Spanish near the border too, in places like Elvas
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:58 PM   #809
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Yeah, spoken word is harder for one to understand the other though, although there are large enough differences for bilingual signage to make sence in some situations. I think that they Portuguese is part of the curriculum in the region of Extremadura. I think that most students in Portugal learn Spanish near the border too, in places like Elvas

Have checked several web pages to have a look to student's curriculum on schools and high schools and only French and English are considered. If the school wants can offer also German, but very often only English and French (you need too many students to offer three languages in a school).

It is possible to have a bilingual school. In my region they started making someones and now stopped because no money but those created still remains. In those of them, 50% of subjects are in Spanish and 50% in the language the school decided (almost all of them English, but in my region there are several ones 50% French and one for German).
Being a country that has not as many languages culture as other European countries I think it is too much starting in that system with 3 years old kids.

Apart of that... all schools that want, can offer extra subjects or activities... and schools in Extremadura can offer Portuguese (I have read that 70% students of Portuguese live there).


In Spain it exists the "Language official school". Six courses and you receive the equivalent of a B2 language title, standarized in Europe. And it is a official grade (with an university career and that B2 title you can be a high school teacher)

I have read that all, all those schools offer Portuguese for any students
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:20 AM   #810
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(you need too many students to offer three languages in a school)
Or have a law that obliges them (in Italian-speaking Switzerland, these are French, German and English, in Graubünden German is mandatory for Italian speakers and viceversa). What is the situation in Belgium, especially in the German-speaking part (that interests me, as in percentage they are similar to Italian and Romansh speakers in Switzerland)?
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:42 AM   #811
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Law just only obligue to learn a foreing language... not necessary English but chosen by almost all students (the only case I know of a mate with my same age who did not chosen English was because his mother is German. He studied always English and German but in last course, where exam marks are important to go to University, he decided German because he was bilingual)
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Old September 7th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Or have a law that obliges them (in Italian-speaking Switzerland, these are French, German and English, in Graubünden German is mandatory for Italian speakers and viceversa). What is the situation in Belgium, especially in the German-speaking part (that interests me, as in percentage they are similar to Italian and Romansh speakers in Switzerland)?
The German-speaking part of Belgium is autonomous - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-...ity_of_Belgium - so German is the language of schooling, if that's what you're asking.

My understanding (as a foreigner who pays attention to the country) of what languages are taught is:
in Dutch-speaking areas, French is the first foreign language, then English; others are an option.
in Brussels (which is legally bilingual - French/Dutch - but each of those two language groups has its own schools), the first foreign language taught is the other national language (Dutch in French-speaking schools and vice-versa), with English next.
in French-speaking areas, the local authorities get to choose whether Dutch or English will be the first foreign language; the other is taught next. I think most places choose Dutch. There may be some areas in the east where German's first.
Not sure about German-speaking areas.
The inconsistencies from one region to the next are because this is now under "community" rather than Federal jurisdiction.

Everything you could ever want to know about Belgian language laws - if you read French - here: http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/europe/belgiqueacc.htm

For what it's worth: notwithstanding the U.S.'s reputation for not caring about foreign languages, my suburban, 1,500-student, public high school 30-odd years ago offered Spanish, French, German, Italian, I think another one I'm forgetting, and Latin.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 05:25 PM   #813
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For what it's worth: notwithstanding the U.S.'s reputation for not caring about foreign languages, my suburban, 1,500-student, public high school 30-odd years ago offered Spanish, French, German, Italian, I think another one I'm forgetting, and Latin.


Should have to check current system but in Spain I had one year of Latin mandatory when 16 years old. Later, with 17 and 18 Latin and Greek were optionnel.

In the University of my city there is one career for Latin and Greek (both together).

Apart of that, in the university language institute it is possible to study "current Greek" (not classical Greek)
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Old September 8th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #814
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In the Basque Country most of the signs are bilingual, in the Southern Basque Country (Spain) they're usually in Basque and Spanish, with the exception of toponyms of towns, which normally are only in Basque. In the Northern Basque Country (France) however, only the signs about towns and cities are bilingual (Basque and French), the rest are only in French (there are some exceptions though).

These traffic signs near Bilbao (Southern Basque Country, Spain) are bilingual:

This one says Kontuz/Atención - Gogora ezazu/Recuerde (Basque and Spanish for "Attention - Remember")

[IMG]http://i49.************/23jfqs8.png[/IMG]

This one is also in both languages:

[IMG]http://i48.************/2nbfuw7.png[/IMG]

Now, here's one from the Northern Basque Country, near Hendaye (in France), it's a not very common sign, as not only it includes info about towns in both French and Basque, but also about some other locations (which is not very frequent in France):

[IMG]http://i50.************/346st28.png[/IMG]

Finally this one near Vitoria (Southern Basque Country, Spain) includes text in Arabic:

[IMG]http://i46.************/2r3azhk.png[/IMG]
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Old September 8th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #815
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Quote:
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I believe there is a law(in BG) not to use J but Y when translating into Latin,long story .........tensions with Serbia in the past if I'm not mistaken.
The correct Latin translation of Bulgaria should be B'lgarija......."nice"
Yes, you are mistaken.

J is not a good letter to transliterate that sound/glide, as it can mean different sounds in different languages. Y is always in most languages the same.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 03:17 PM   #816
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Isn't the Latin transliteration of "България" Balgari(y)a? And I've never seen Sofiya on signs. Sofija would be ok (that's how we call it), but it's a Slavic transliteration, not English.
"Sofia" and "Bulgaria" are exempt from the transliteration rules as Sofiya and Balgariya just look awful.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #817
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Y is always in most languages the same.
Well... It is not.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #818
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Well, in the most important languages it is. Case closed.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 05:14 PM   #819
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Well... It is not.
Other than being pronounced also as "i" (ee), how else can it be pronounced (and in which language(s))?
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Old September 8th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #820
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Other than being pronounced also as "i" (ee), how else can it be pronounced (and in which language(s))?
For instance like the German Ü, as in the Scandinavian languages, in Finnish, and in German.

The pronunciation may vary, like in the German words "typisch" and "Hymne".
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