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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:05 PM   #1201
volodaaaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcee View Post
I prefer settlement-level too. Why? Your example is just one side of the coin. The other side is: When a country wants to f*@# with minorities it can mess with them using the territorial-level legislation as an excuse. I mean if the minorities of that country are concentrated to a few villages they can't reach significant levels in a county or district. Or it can draw the boundaries of those districts in a way that it would make the minorities less significant.

For example Lórév/Ловра has a Serb majority but there are only ~300 people living in the village. So if Hungary would choose to use settlement-level legislation and we would look at the Ráckeve district (pop.: ~ 36 000 with a few hundred Serbs*) or Pest county** (pop.: ~1 230 000 with ~900 Serbs) it would be a huge disadvantage for them. Luckily this isn't the case.

*Sorry I don't know the exact number as the districts were only re-created in 2011. I'll try to add the Serbs from the villages of the district if I can find appropriate data for this.
**Note that Budapest is not part of pest county.
Slovak district of Nové Zámky perhaps?
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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:18 PM   #1202
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Makes sense, although it's worth noting that there were no map redrawings in a long time (and even then in the 1970s, rural Hungarian population around Zrenjanin got an advantage as they became significant part of the large city instead of just another village). Plus I can only imagine the response from the Hungarian Party if anyone tried to mess with their moniez like that.

Also it's worth noting that legally that village with minorities each being even under 1% doesn't have to use those plates. It's just a good will, and a sign that even if they would redraw the map the languages would still be used. For an example in Novi Sad, a pretty large city, where no minority passes the threshold, still many languages are used (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...yor_office.jpg) even Rusyn which is used by 0,81% of the population. So if Lovra was merged into Ráckeve (Srpski Kovin), under this recipe, it wouldn't mean that Serbian would be no longer used in Lovra, but opposite, Serbian should then be used in Ráckeve as well.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:22 PM   #1203
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Slovak district of Nové Zámky perhaps?
It's better that you've said it not me.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:23 PM   #1204
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This language debate is kind of amusing. In Montreal, Canada 20% or so of population is English-speaking, but English langauge public signs (roads, etc) are essentially illegal, and if a business owner puts a sign in English only, he can be fined, even though, in districts of the city, English-speaking people are more than 50% of population Older (1950's) street signs that were bilingual (rue XXX Street) have tape placed over the "street" to make it unilingual.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:30 PM   #1205
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I think that usage of bilingual plates in places where a minority is in such small numbers is just a symbolic gesture, it has no practical use (and likely no member of the minority community even speaks that language). I don't think the cost is really an issue, you put them up once and that's it. In Croatia where plates even in cities with 30% minority are smashed every week in violent gatherings surely do create large expenses, but this is not really the case in some random villages around Zrenjanin. So while I don't think there is any practical use of those plates, I am not against them. It's a tolerant multicultural environment, and these plates are a form of an external expression of this.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:38 PM   #1206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcee View Post
It's better that you've said it not me.
Sorry for that, but fortunately, districts are nothing but statistical units. bilingual signs and official forms are based on 15 % presence of certain minority, so entire southern Slovakia is full of them. After Mr. Slota did not make it to parliament, apparent tensions about Hungarian minority are gone and it is more convenient.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:47 PM   #1207
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Sorry for that, but fortunately, districts are nothing but statistical units. bilingual signs and official forms are based on 15 % presence of certain minority, so entire southern Slovakia is full of them. After Mr. Slota did not make it to parliament, apparent tensions about Hungarian minority are gone and it is more convenient.
Yepp it's good now that he's gone. I hope that things will get better and better.

p.s.: It's another coincidence: I know a girl from Érsekújvár/Nové Zámky too.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 11:35 PM   #1208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
After Mr. Slota did not make it to parliament, apparent tensions about Hungarian minority are gone and it is more convenient.
It's also much, MUCH easier for the Slovenian minority in the Austrian Carinthia without Jörg Haider. He was extremely annoying (RIP), but now the Slovenian minority doesn't have any problems at all.
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Old January 20th, 2014, 12:06 AM   #1209
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It's also much, MUCH easier for the Slovenian minority in the Austrian Carinthia without Jörg Haider. He was extremely annoying (RIP), but now the Slovenian minority doesn't have any problems at all.
IMHO it was opposite. They (certain politicians) have problems with minorities
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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
This language debate is kind of amusing. In Montreal, Canada 20% or so of population is English-speaking, but English langauge public signs (roads, etc) are essentially illegal, and if a business owner puts a sign in English only, he can be fined, even though, in districts of the city, English-speaking people are more than 50% of population Older (1950's) street signs that were bilingual (rue XXX Street) have tape placed over the "street" to make it unilingual.
It is odd, though, that some street names where the proper part of the name is translatable into French haven't been: "Rue City-Councillors" "Rue University"....

It's also interesting that signage on the Champlain Bridge is in standard Quebec format but bilingual. ("Rue Notre-Dame St") Presumably because it's a federal facility.

And last time I was there I think I spotted an English-only XXX St. sign someone missed, tucked away in a sort of back street near where I was staying (Parc near Sherbrooke).
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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:15 AM   #1211
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City-Councillors is technically French (the - ) and University refers specifically to the English-language university at the end of the street Some other ones disappeared, like Mountain St becoming "rue de la Montagne", though it is said to refer to a person named Mountain and not Mount Royal... this was a huge political debate in the 70's and 80's that calmed down after most of the English speakers moved to Toronto. You can still kind of tell someone's roots in the area by their reference to streets like this, someone who lived here from before would probably say, for example, "St Lawrence" while even an anglophone who came from elsewhere more recently would say "Saint Laurent" in the French way...

Those bilingual signs "Avenue Atwater Avenue" on the approach to the bridge are bilingual to follow Federal law, and signs are maintained by the Fed, you can note the "fin limite MTQ / PJCCI-JCCBI" small signs on the shoulder where the jurisdiction changes from the province to the "Federal Bridge Corporation"

There are still a few such signs as you note, one I used to park near on a small street (more an alley) was replaced though...
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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:25 AM   #1212
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Yes, we wouldn't hyphenate "city councillors" in English (and my American spell-check doesn't like the double L), but if the street was named to honor the members of the city council wouldn't "Conseillers-Municipaux" or something be the appropriate way to do that in French? That's what I meant by them not bothering to translate the street name.

(And I'm old enough, and have been going to Montreal often enough, to remember when one of the department stores' - Holt's or Ogilvy's? - ads in the Gazette gave their address as "Sherbrooke at Mountain")
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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:16 PM   #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
IMHO it was opposite. They (certain politicians) have problems with minorities
Yep, that those minorities still existing..
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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:34 PM   #1214
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Yep, that those minorities still existing..
Sadly all across Eastern Europe you can find parties and politicians like this.
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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #1215
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Originally Posted by nbcee View Post
Sadly all across Eastern Europe you can find parties and politicians like this.
Best solution is to ignore them. Because, it is nothing but political capital.

Sometimes it is better to invest in xenophobia, sometimes is better to be conciliatory. Those people would never ever fight for their nation. You can see it at the example of former Yugoslavia. War leaders are arrested in Haag in luxurious jail house with internet, football playground etc. and I bet, they had never been dressed in military uniform, except case of photo shooting for same propaganda posters. And plenty of people were shooting each other for them and their ideology.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 11:29 PM   #1216
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Slovenian in Trieste! Porca miseria!


http://bora.la/2012/11/21/francesco-...i-chiarimenti/

Last edited by Verso; February 8th, 2014 at 11:35 PM.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #1217
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Trieste city is not bilingual, many villages in Carso are. This is a mobile temporary sign, probably was intended for a bilingual place and then reused elsewhere. I don't see a reason to became mad about this, I doubt that two words in Slovenia would insult the "Italian sentiment" especially in a touristic city where it's normal to read notices in 4-5 languages.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 01:39 AM   #1218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I don't see a reason to became mad about this
Translated from the website: "The photo has sparked strong controversy not only among the public but also in politics."

--------------------------

Anyway... Here is a bilingual sign in Italian and Resian:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bi...sia-Rezjia.jpg

It's also the first time I see Udine signed in Resian (didn't even know how it was called):


http://bardo-lusevera-news.blogspot....4_archive.html

Something interesting:
Quote:
The Slovene name Videm (with final -m) is a hypercorrection of the local Slovene name Vidan (with final -n), based on settlements named Videm in Slovenia. The Slovene linguist Pavle Merků has characterized the Slovene form Videm as an "idiotic 19th-century hypercorrection."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udine#Name
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Old February 9th, 2014, 02:43 AM   #1219
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Lmao, Resians call us "Buške".


http://valresia-resije.blogspot.com/...-italiano.html

Apparently this is the reason for that:
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The Resians call their language rozajanski, while they frequently refer to the Slovene language as tabuški, meaning 'the one from Bovec', which is the first large Slovene settlement on the other side of the Kanin mountain range.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resia,_...and_traditions


It's funny, because you'd expect a Slovenian dialect to call Slovenia "Slovenija" or something like that. Other than that, in standard Slovene "buške" means something you get if you hit yourself in the head.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 03:11 PM   #1220
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because apparently they never went further than Bovec
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