daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 10th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #101
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,531
Likes (Received): 21237

What I don't like about E-system is that it completely ignores road standards. I'd not mind numbers being "out of sense" like the aforementioned E22, as long as the numbering system conveyed a sort-of recognizable pattern for road standards like highways, grade-separated roads, local roads and so. It would be far more helpful.

Either that or assigning numbers that represented logical routes between the whole of it.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 10th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #102
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 766

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Yeah, but it's quite logical that they will cross the border, don't you think? Except E653, which is the Hungarian M70, but it doesn't extend into Slovenia; how stupid is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
The Swedish E4 is the Danish E55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Stupid.
Sweden and Norway use the old E-numbering scheme, while the other the new. As Sweden and Norway use only the (old) E numbering scheme without national numebrs it was decided to not rename E-roads there as it would have been to costly (thousand of signs also on non E-roads).
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2010, 10:44 PM   #103
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABC LV View Post
E roads often doesn't make any sense. Just look at E22
Even apart from the ferries, it is completely nonsensical route. It doesn't even come close to a proper east-west route in a grid. And the sole excuse you could have -the route links major cities- does not apply here. In the Netherlands, we're faced with the fact that the Amsterdam - Germany route goes via the Afsluitdijk rather than the much more direct route via Lelystad. In other words, a complete waste that could have been numbered so much better. But hey, that is the problem of the entire E-system.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2010, 10:47 PM   #104
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

E22 only makes sense for some solitary sections, but certainly not as a whole. Especially the north-south section in Sweden is out of par with the basics of the system. Generally, only E22 in Latvia and Russia make sense.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2010, 11:08 PM   #105
IceCheese
Scandi-friendly
 
IceCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada is my city
Posts: 7,229
Likes (Received): 925

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Sweden and Norway use the old E-numbering scheme, while the other the new. As Sweden and Norway use only the (old) E numbering scheme without national numebrs it was decided to not rename E-roads there as it would have been to costly (thousand of signs also on non E-roads).
You're wrong. Only the E6 and the E4 are (partly) incorrect. All other E-routes have "updated" numbering. For instance the E39 on the Norwegian west coast, that used to be E18 in the old system.
__________________
Oslo/Copenhagen - The True Capital of Scandinavia.


Take a look at my Photo Mess!
IceCheese no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2010, 11:36 PM   #106
Uppsala
Registered User
 
Uppsala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uppsala, S, Europe
Posts: 654
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Sweden and Norway use the old E-numbering scheme, while the other the new. As Sweden and Norway use only the (old) E numbering scheme without national numebrs it was decided to not rename E-roads there as it would have been to costly (thousand of signs also on non E-roads).
This is wrong. Only E4 and E6 have the old E-numbering but it's integrated with the other E-roads with new numbers.

This is the old E-numbers Sweden with new numbers:

E3 - now E20 and some parts is E18
E14 - now E65
E66 - now E22 and some parts is E20
E75 - now E14 (new)
E79 - now E12

E18 had the same number in the old system but some parts in eastern Sweden is a little bit different now.

Efter the system has been chanced some new E-rods came to Sweden like E10 and E45.
Uppsala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2010, 11:39 PM   #107
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 766

Thank you! There is no plan to renumebr E4 and E6, right?
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #108
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

E4 and E6 are the longest and most important roads of Sweden and Norway respectively. Renumbering them would require a large investment in new signs, without a clear need to do so.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #109
Uppsala
Registered User
 
Uppsala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uppsala, S, Europe
Posts: 654
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Thank you! There is no plan to renumebr E4 and E6, right?
Not now. Maybe in the future. But they are more interested about to renumber other roads in Sweden to new E-roads.
Uppsala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 12:48 AM   #110
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
E22 only makes sense for some solitary sections, but certainly not as a whole. Especially the north-south section in Sweden is out of par with the basics of the system. Generally, only E22 in Latvia and Russia make sense.
If the UK finally got rid of its useless East-West E-routes, the number E24 would become available for use elsewhere. Such as on the Dutch-German section of the current E22. So you'd have an E22 in Latvia and Russia, E24 in the Netherlands and Germany and E55 for the Swedish part of the current route.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 01:49 AM   #111
Uppsala
Registered User
 
Uppsala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uppsala, S, Europe
Posts: 654
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
If the UK finally got rid of its useless East-West E-routes, the number E24 would become available for use elsewhere. Such as on the Dutch-German section of the current E22. So you'd have an E22 in Latvia and Russia, E24 in the Netherlands and Germany and E55 for the Swedish part of the current route.
But it's more logic to have the same number for E22 in Sweden and Germany. There is a ferry from Trelleborg to Sassnitz and that's a part of E22.
Uppsala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 02:34 AM   #112
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,550

Uppsala, but you'll spoil Pino's idealistic master plan. He lost me at sign national or E-number only - the UK will have none.

I also don't know why duplicates can't exist, like they do in America. Ditto dodgy diagonal routes - the E road system has too much of a purity when it comes to numbers for me.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 03:03 AM   #113
brewerfan386
Registered User
 
brewerfan386's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cheeseland
Posts: 712
Likes (Received): 158

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
I also don't know why duplicates can't exist, like they do in America.
We don't have duplicate numbered roads on our Federal US highway system, as it strictly forbidden by law, the "E-roads" are akin to US Routes (an exception or two may exist).
__________________
[intentionally left blank]
brewerfan386 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 03:06 AM   #114
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What I don't like about E-system is that it completely ignores road standards. I'd not mind numbers being "out of sense" like the aforementioned E22, as long as the numbering system conveyed a sort-of recognizable pattern for road standards like highways, grade-separated roads, local roads and so. It would be far more helpful.

Either that or assigning numbers that represented logical routes between the whole of it.
That doesn't make sense. E-roads are pan-European roads, so it doesn't matter, whether they're motorways or ordinary roads (or mixed), their point is that you can drive on them. I know that national road systems usually don't follow the same principle (signing the whole route with the same number), but E-roads make sense nonetheless (except for their often weird routes).
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 03:11 AM   #115
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewerfan386 View Post
We don't have duplicate numbered roads on our Federal US highway system, as it strictly forbidden by law, the "E-roads" are akin to US Routes (an exception or two may exist).
What about here, f.e.? I-85 and US 15 at the same time.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 03:14 AM   #116
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewerfan386 View Post
We don't have duplicate numbered roads on our Federal US highway system, as it strictly forbidden by law, the "E-roads" are akin to US Routes (an exception or two may exist).
True, but you do on the Federal Interstate system.

E-roads aren't really akin to either US system - all three are rather different other than crossing continents and having a grid system. Numbering-wise, Interstates seem a better fit for E-roads in some respects, but the US highways in others.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 03:15 AM   #117
brewerfan386
Registered User
 
brewerfan386's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cheeseland
Posts: 712
Likes (Received): 158

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
What about here, f.e.? I-85 and US 15 at the same time.
I was comparing E-roads to US highways, not Interstates, since not all E-routes are freeways and Interstates are all by definition freeways/ tollways. US highways can range from rural farm roads to 8-lane urban freeways.
EDIT
Were talking about duplicated route numbers, right?
__________________
[intentionally left blank]

Last edited by brewerfan386; September 11th, 2010 at 03:38 AM.
brewerfan386 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 03:53 AM   #118
ArthurK
Legum Magister Scientiae
 
ArthurK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Groningen, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,360
Likes (Received): 8

About the E22...
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Even apart from the ferries, it is completely nonsensical route. It doesn't even come close to a proper east-west route in a grid. And the sole excuse you could have -the route links major cities- does not apply here. In the Netherlands, we're faced with the fact that the Amsterdam - Germany route goes via the Afsluitdijk rather than the much more direct route via Lelystad. In other words, a complete waste that could have been numbered so much better. But hey, that is the problem of the entire E-system.
If the E22 would be rerouted via the A6 (which is just completed in the eighties), it would make sense as a logical route between Amsterdam and Hamburg, and continuing to Sweden. It would be easy if international traffic could just follow E22-signs instead of the national roadnumbers (A6, A7, N7 in the Netherlands; A280, A31, A28, A1, A20 in Germany). Now you have to navigate via the intermediate cities: first follow the signs to "Groningen", then Oldenburg, then Hamburg.
ArthurK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 02:44 PM   #119
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurK View Post
It would make sense as a logical route between Amsterdam and Hamburg, and continuing to Sweden.
Wouldn't it make as much sense to have a logical route between Amsterdam and Hamburg, and then continuing along the Baltic coast to Stettin, Vilnius and Minsk? The problem of route numbering is that you can't have one numbered route from anywhere to anywhere. Amsterdam to Sweden sounds nice, but so does Amsterdam to Turkey.

There is a reason why some towns are connected in the E-system and others are not. That reason is the grid system, which tells you that routes should run more or less east-west or north-south. So there is seemingly little reason to have one route connecting Amsterdam and Mid-Sweden. The logic of the system tells you that to get to Mid-Sweden, one should first take an even east-west route and then an odd north-south route. The more routes deviate from the grid system, the less comprehensible it is for the motorist. going back to basics is what drives my "idealism" when it comes to E-numbering.

So looking at the E22, I think that the better option for it would have been to follow the north coast of Germany and Poland (a combination of E22 and E28), rather than to move North to Sweden. For the connection between Trelleborg and Sassnitz, an odd number would have been more appropriate, which could then have continued all the way to Stockholm via het Swedish east coast.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2010, 02:58 PM   #120
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,447
Likes (Received): 1931

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
E4 and E6 are the longest and most important roads of Sweden and Norway respectively. Renumbering them would require a large investment in new signs, without a clear need to do so.
Not really... only a load of stickers, just like they made when they renumbered the A-23 exits North of Saragossa (Also signed as E07).
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium