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Old October 20th, 2010, 10:45 AM   #141
ChrisZwolle
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As far as I know, there used to be two separate E-numbering systems. There was a system that ran from 1950 to 1975, and was significantly different than that of today. Some Scandinavian E-routes still follow the old routes (E4, E6). The 1975 E-numbering system is the current one. The system was expanded in 2001 when UNECE thought it was a good idea to include central Asia and the Caucasus.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 06:37 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As far as I know, there used to be two separate E-numbering systems. There was a system that ran from 1950 to 1975, and was significantly different than that of today. Some Scandinavian E-routes still follow the old routes (E4, E6). The 1975 E-numbering system is the current one. The system was expanded in 2001 when UNECE thought it was a good idea to include central Asia and the Caucasus.
That is absolutely true. The old system, finally discontinued in the 80s, was, in many ways, far more sensible. You had a few long routes (single-digit plus low double-digit) runnling along reasonably sensible alignments through Europe and then higher double-digit routes for the not-so-long sections between important cities and places. The E6, for instance, used to run all the way from Kirkenes to Rome.
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 05:31 PM   #143
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To be honest, I think that the EU should be treated as a single country when it comes to roads. Just standardise everything and create names and standards for roads as you would if it was just one country.
No thanks. There's no need at all to do that.

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E.g. say we follow the British system and denote motorways as M and national roads as A. In this case, e.g. road Amsterdam-Berlin-Warsaw would just be called M1 in sections that are of motorway standard and A1 in sections that are not yet of motorway standard. There wouldn't be another M1 or A1 in any other country.
Why M and A ? No thanks. M doesn't mean a thing outside GB, H and RUS. And the prefix A means motorway in most of all EU-states.

Also to be mentioned: you would have 3-digit or 4-digit numbers in certain areas, which would be very much alike. Totally inefficient.

There's only one best solution: abolish E-routes alltogether, and keep to the existing national systems.
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 09:44 PM   #144
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Usage of M for motorway denotation was just an example. I am not British so I am not biased towards such denotation, like I said, I would be happy even if all motorways were denoted as Z. But that is my opinion. I have no problems with 3 digit numbers either, and even so I don't think that they'd be very common as surely there wouldn't be many more motorways than 100 in the EU any time soon once you connect them into a single system. Do you really care if the motorway next to your town is called A99 or A1 that much?

I don't want to turn this into a pro-EU/anti-EU debate, I simply disagree with you and think that such system would be more and not less efficient, especially for people from smaller countries that drive across borders a lot. By the way, when I said that standards should be the same across the EU I meant minimum standards and standardisation of colours for motorway and non-motorway signs. I am aware that standards in the Netherlands are higher than in other countries, but it would stay as is.
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 10:29 PM   #145
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There are quite a lot of motorways and a further more national/1st class roads in Europe outside the E-numbering system, so not just 4-digits, but probably 5-digit numbers would be required unfortunately.

I also feel that the system as it is now, is rather useless, so either it should be scrapped or modified in a more logical way, but at the moment most European countries have other problems (financial crisis) than to also having to replace thousands of signs in their roads. So it is better just to ignore it if there is national numbering too or use on a national basis in countries it is included in the local numbering system (Scandinavia, Belgium, Serbia).
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 11:07 PM   #146
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 11:38 PM   #147
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E.g. say we follow the British system and denote motorways as M and national roads as A. In this case, e.g. road Amsterdam-Berlin-Warsaw would just be called M1 in sections that are of motorway standard and A1 in sections that are not yet of motorway standard.
Agree. Some sort of EU Interstates should be introduced.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 03:40 AM   #148
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Agree. Some sort of EU Interstates should be introduced.
That's kind of what the E-road network was supposed to become.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 10:33 AM   #149
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Ok guys, since most of you live in Europe maybe you can help me plan a travel route. Next year I am planning a visit to Blerick/Venlo, NL and then a drive up to Stockholm. Would crossing into Germany and taking Autobahn 40 into the Duisburg then to Autobahn 3 to Autobahn 2 to Autobahn 52 and then onto Autobahn 43 to Autobahn 1 at Munster and stay on 1 until the ferry for Denmark (Puttgarden-Rodbyhavn) then stay on E47 through Copenhaven and up to the ferry at (Helsingor-Helsingborg and follow E4 all the way to STHLM? I have NEVER driven in Europe and looking at a map is a mess especially Ruhr Valley metro areas.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 11:19 AM   #150
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Ok guys, since most of you live in Europe maybe you can help me plan a travel route. Next year I am planning a visit to Blerick/Venlo, NL and then a drive up to Stockholm. Would crossing into Germany and taking Autobahn 40 into the Duisburg then to Autobahn 3 to Autobahn 2 to Autobahn 52 and then onto Autobahn 43 to Autobahn 1 at Munster and stay on 1 until the ferry for Denmark (Puttgarden-Rodbyhavn) then stay on E47 through Copenhaven and up to the ferry at (Helsingor-Helsingborg and follow E4 all the way to STHLM? I have NEVER driven in Europe and looking at a map is a mess especially Ruhr Valley metro areas.
Why take the ferry from Helsingør to Helsingborg when you can take the bridge from Copenhagen to Malmö? That's not a good idea. The bridge from Malmö to Copenhagen is better than the ferry from ferry from Helsingør to Helsingborg. If you go from Copenhagen to Stockholm you should take E20 from Copnhagen to Malmö, E6/E20 from Malmö to Helsingborg and E4 from Helsingborg to Stockholm.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 11:44 AM   #151
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First of all, get rid of the thought you only follow road numbers. In Europe, you follow control cities, not cardinal directions or road numbers, though it is possible to navigate by road numbers on major roads.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 12:13 PM   #152
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OK so best to take Oresunds bron instead of ferry to Helsingborg and focus on control cities not route numbers.

@ Uppsala: I thought perhaps by taking the Helsingborg ferry instead of E20 to Malmo would save time. At least looking at a map it looks that way, but this is not true? Is the ferry slow and not on schedule or is E20 just faster travel speeds?
I have no issue taking either route and quite frankly would love to take the Oresunds and see Torso en route.

@ ChrisZwolle: So I think from an American view we just follow route numbers by habit. By the looks of the Rhur region this will only get me lost and next thing I know I'm face down ass up in Prague
So follow control cities. Peanuts! easy enough.

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Old October 23rd, 2010, 12:35 PM   #153
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OK so best to take Oresunds bron instead of ferry to Helsingborg and focus on control cities not route numbers.

@ Uppsala: I thought perhaps by taking the Helsingborg ferry instead of E20 to Malmo would save time. At least looking at a map it looks that way, but this is not true? Is the ferry slow and not on schedule or is E20 just faster travel speeds?
I have no issue taking either route and quite frankly would love to take the Oresunds and see Torso en route.

@ ChrisZwolle: So I think from an American view we just follow route numbers by habit. By the looks of the Rhur region this will only get me lost and next thing I know I'm face down ass up in Prague
So follow control cities. Peanuts! easy enough.

Tak/Bedankt
I agree with ChrisZwolle. Follow the control cities, not the road numbers. And see what road numbers are going to the cities.

And you should notice you can go from Hamburg to Stockholm without any ferry. Just take the motorway from Hamburg via Flensburg, Kolding, Odense, Nyborg, Korsør, Copenhagen, Malmö. Helsingborg, Jönköping and you are coming to Stockholm without any ferry.

You are definitely not saving time if you take the ferry from Helsingør to Helsingborg. That takes much longer time. If you want to save time you should take the bridge from Copenhagen to Malmö called Öresundsbron.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 12:46 PM   #154
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It's not that hard to bypass the Ruhr region.

First of all, you will enter Germany on A40 towards Duisburg, then you will follow A3 towards Hannover, which becomes A2, which you follow until Dortmund. Then you follow A1 towards Bremen, and the control city will sooner or later become Hamburg, then Lübeck, and ultimately Puttgarden, where you get on the ferry to Denmark.

A little tip; many Americans drive in the left lane for no apparent reason. Don't do that in Europe, it will not be appreciated. Always pass on the left, never on the right, unless you're in a traffic jam.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 07:08 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's not that hard to bypass the Ruhr region.

First of all, you will enter Germany on A40 towards Duisburg, then you will follow A3 towards Hannover, which becomes A2, which you follow until Dortmund. Then you follow A1 towards Bremen, and the control city will sooner or later become Hamburg, then Lübeck, and ultimately Puttgarden, where you get on the ferry to Denmark.

A little tip; many Americans drive in the left lane for no apparent reason. Don't do that in Europe, it will not be appreciated. Always pass on the left, never on the right, unless you're in a traffic jam.
Thanks for the tips! Unlike most Americans I drive right, pass left. The state I grew up in (Kentucky) taught us that from day 1 behind the wheel. I believe Californians are the worst at driving left and passing right

Also driving in the left lane for no reason in the U.S. is illegal in some states such as Pennsylvania etc..... signs are posted.
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Old February 28th, 2011, 06:39 AM   #156
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Are the E roads yet posted on signs in the Asian countries in which the system was expanded a decade ago? Specifically each of these countries:
Georgia
Azerbaijan
Armenia
Russia
Uzbekistan
Turkmenistan
Tajikistan
Kyrgyzstan
Kazakhstan

Would a traveler be able to follow E routes in those countries?
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Old February 28th, 2011, 09:48 AM   #157
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I doubt it, many signs are still from the Soviet era, and I suspect that if E-numbers are signed, it is mainly on the newer signs, which are not the overwhelming majority in those countries so to speak...
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Old February 28th, 2011, 04:50 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by treichard View Post
Are the E roads yet posted on signs in the Asian countries in which the system was expanded a decade ago? Specifically each of these countries:
Georgia
Azerbaijan
Armenia
Russia
Uzbekistan
Turkmenistan
Tajikistan
Kyrgyzstan
Kazakhstan

Would a traveler be able to follow E routes in those countries?
There is somewhere on SSC a photo of a Georgian sign with E60 in it.
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Old February 28th, 2011, 07:16 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I doubt it, many signs are still from the Soviet era, and I suspect that if E-numbers are signed, it is mainly on the newer signs, which are not the overwhelming majority in those countries so to speak...
Of course, they're not marked in the UK either....
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Old March 1st, 2011, 02:32 PM   #160
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I hope they never are, either. I see little point in them, from a UK context.
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