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Old August 7th, 2014, 12:38 AM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I see. In the history of railroads, why wasn't the track gauge made equal to the loading gauge? Wouldn't this make the train safer and allow higher speeds around turns?
Cost. Wider gauge makes it more expensive to construct, with no real benefit to increased speed or stability. This is especially true for metro trains. If you can run +300km/h HSR on standard gauge, then every metro system will do fine on standard gauge.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 05:50 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Definitely I have something wrong, since I'm 2 km short on Line 1 and 3.5 km on line S1. This leads to the weird situation where the official lenghts show that Nanjing metro is now longer than Shenzhen's, but my data still says it's the other way round! .
Nanjing is having metro opening peak 2014~2016, I don't think Shenzhen 's length will catch up Nanjing before 2020.

Nanjing's openings ahead:

Line 3: 48km, end of 2014
Line 4 phase I: 33.8km, end of 2015
Line S1 phase II: 52.4km, end of 2015 or early 2016
Line S3: 37.8km, 2016
Line S7: 30.5km, 2016
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Old August 7th, 2014, 07:24 AM   #483
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It's definitely awkward that Nanjing in the near future will have a significantly bigger network than Shenzhen, a Tier I megacity with the biggest skyscraper boom since Dubai.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 09:05 PM   #484
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But Shenzhen is not that big as a city. That's not the level of Shanghai or Beijing or Guangzhou.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 09:07 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Cost. Wider gauge makes it more expensive to construct, with no real benefit to increased speed or stability.
Stability benefits. Historically countries with wider gauge were oriented towards cargo transport rather than passenger service.

But why is it more expensive?
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Old August 8th, 2014, 10:12 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Stability benefits. Historically countries with wider gauge were oriented towards cargo transport rather than passenger service.
Historically people didn't trust the stability of narrower gauges. Until the Japanese started running trains up to 130km/h on cape gauge. Then everyone realized the extra stability wider gauges have is overrated. So the extra cost of getting wider gauges is not justified. You can see that today with most specialized applications of railways (HSR, Heavy freight) can be managed by standard gauge.

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Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
But why is it more expensive?
More ballast and longer ties are needed. More rail is needed on curves due to wider arcs to achieve the same turn radius.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 10:15 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
But Shenzhen is not that big as a city. That's not the level of Shanghai or Beijing or Guangzhou.
Its getting pretty close and growing fast. Shenzhen population is estimated to be between 15-17 million right now, which is close to Guangzhou and way ahead of Nanjing's 6-7 million. Beijing and Shanghai are not growing as fast.
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Old August 9th, 2014, 12:04 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Its getting pretty close and growing fast. Shenzhen population is estimated to be between 15-17 million right now, which is close to Guangzhou and way ahead of Nanjing's 6-7 million. Beijing and Shanghai are not growing as fast.
I believe Nanjing's population is over 8 million and it is the provincial capital of the wealthiest province in China.
Shenzhen is about 11 million and is not even the provincial capital (or largest city) of Guangdong. I visit Shenzhen a lot and i think the metro system works fine as it is now, whereas if you go to Nanjing you'll realize that it definitely needs to grow to cope with the city's commuting patterns.
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Old August 9th, 2014, 02:15 AM   #489
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Shenzhen metro works alright because the area of the city is so small. The density is huge though. So in the future the lines needs to be closer together than in other cities.

Shenzhen's population should be about 12.5 million now by the way according to geohive's estimates. And they are normally right.

Last edited by Bannor; August 9th, 2014 at 02:21 AM.
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Old August 9th, 2014, 03:49 AM   #490
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Shenzhen's population is about 15 mil. It also includes areas from Dongguan.
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Old August 9th, 2014, 10:31 AM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Historically people didn't trust the stability of narrower gauges. Until the Japanese started running trains up to 130km/h on cape gauge. Then everyone realized the extra stability wider gauges have is overrated. So the extra cost of getting wider gauges is not justified. You can see that today with most specialized applications of railways (HSR, Heavy freight) can be managed by standard gauge.

More ballast and longer ties are needed. More rail is needed on curves due to wider arcs to achieve the same turn radius.
Then you can save a lot of money by building your HSR, freight and metro lines on 1067 or 1000 mm gauge, not 1435 mm.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 01:14 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Its getting pretty close and growing fast. Shenzhen population is estimated to be between 15-17 million right now, which is close to Guangzhou and way ahead of Nanjing's 6-7 million. Beijing and Shanghai are not growing as fast.
What about its built-up area in sq km?
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Old August 11th, 2014, 05:50 AM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Then you can save a lot of money by building your HSR, freight and metro lines on 1067 or 1000 mm gauge, not 1435 mm.
1) I said standard gauge is good enough for HSR and heavy freight not cape gauge.

2) Another factor for the adoption standard gauge is because its standard rolling stock and maintenance equipment can be bought with much cheaper prices.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 06:58 AM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannor View Post
Shenzhen metro works alright because the area of the city is so small. The density is huge though. So in the future the lines needs to be closer together than in other cities.

Shenzhen's population should be about 12.5 million now by the way according to geohive's estimates. And they are normally right.
While Nanjing's whole border (including rural areas) is wider than Shenzhen, Shenzhen's built-up urban area is actually larger than Nanjing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
What about its built-up area in sq km?
With city's rapid expansion the built-up area list has been changing year by year. Here's the 2013 stats,

Rank City Built-up area (in sq km)
1. Shanghai 1563
2. Beijing 1268
3. Guangzhou 700
4. Shenzhen 661
5. Tianjin 605
6. Dongguan 590
7. Hangzhou 551
8. Nanjing 502
9. Suzhou 411
10. Wuhan 408
11. Chengdu 406
12. Shenyang 399
13. Ningbo 395
14. Foshan 373
15. Wuxi 372
16. Xi'an 359
17. Qingdao 337
18. Dalian 318
19. Jinan 310
20. Changzhou 307
21. Zhengzhou 294
22. Chongqing 278
23. Kunming 269
24. Shijiazhuang 265
25. Hefei 263
26. Urumqi 251
27. Xiamen 245
28. Harbin 234
29. Changchun 222
30. Nanchang 222
31. Taiyuan 205
32. Linyi 202
33. Changsha 190
34. Baotou 180
35. Fuzhou 177
36. Huhhot 176
37. Wenzhou 155
38. Kunshan 150
39. Shantou 147
40. Nanning 143

source
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Old August 11th, 2014, 09:51 AM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
While Nanjing's whole border (including rural areas) is wider than Shenzhen, Shenzhen's built-up urban area is actually larger than Nanjing.



With city's rapid expansion the built-up area list has been changing year by year. Here's the 2013 stats,
Here edited to add a bit more information:
Rank City Built-up area (in sq km) Number of metro stations
1. Shanghai 1563 263 or 330 or what is the true number?
2. Beijing 1268 232
3. Guangzhou 700 147 or 161 or what is the true number?
4. Shenzhen 661 137
5. Tianjin 605 94
6. Dongguan 590 NO metro
7. Hangzhou 551 31
8. Nanjing 502 67
9. Suzhou 411 46
10. Wuhan 408 62
11. Chengdu 406 42
12. Shenyang 399 43
13. Ningbo 395 20
14. Foshan 373 14 or what is the true number?
15. Wuxi 372 24
16. Xi'an 359 40
17. Qingdao 337 NO metro
18. Dalian 318 26
19. Jinan 310 NO metro
20. Changzhou 307 NO metro
21. Zhengzhou 294 20
22. Chongqing 278 100
23. Kunming 269 33
24. Shijiazhuang 265 NO metro
25. Hefei 263 NO metro
26. Urumqi 251 NO metro
27. Xiamen 245 NO metro
28. Harbin 234 18
29. Changchun 222 NO metro
30. Nanchang 222 NO metro
31. Taiyuan 205 NO metro
32. Linyi 202 NO metro
33. Changsha 190 19
34. Baotou 180 NO metro
35. Fuzhou 177 NO metro
36. Huhhot 176 NO metro
37. Wenzhou 155 NO metro
38. Kunshan 150 3 or what is the true number?
39. Shantou 147 NO metro
40. Nanning 143 NO metro
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Old August 12th, 2014, 08:38 AM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Here edited to add a bit more information:
Rank City Built-up area (in sq km) Number of metro stations
data from baidu baike.

Rank City Built-up area (in sq km) Metro stations #
1. Shanghai 1563 332
2. Beijing 1268 238
3. Guangzhou 700 164
4. Shenzhen 661 137
5. Tianjin 605 94
6. Dongguan 590 NO metro
7. Hangzhou 551 31
8. Nanjing 502 92
9. Suzhou 411 46
10. Wuhan 408 62
11. Chengdu 406 42
12. Shenyang 399 43
13. Ningbo 395 20
14. Foshan 373 11
15. Wuxi 372 24
16. Xi'an 359 40
17. Qingdao 337 NO metro
18. Dalian 318 26
19. Jinan 310 NO metro
20. Changzhou 307 NO metro
21. Zhengzhou 294 20
22. Chongqing 278 100
23. Kunming 269 33
24. Shijiazhuang 265 NO metro
25. Hefei 263 NO metro
26. Urumqi 251 NO metro
27. Xiamen 245 NO metro
28. Harbin 234 18
29. Changchun 222 NO metro
30. Nanchang 222 NO metro
31. Taiyuan 205 NO metro
32. Linyi 202 NO metro
33. Changsha 190 19
34. Baotou 180 NO metro
35. Fuzhou 177 NO metro
36. Huhhot 176 NO metro
37. Wenzhou 155 NO metro
38. Kunshan 150 3
39. Shantou 147 NO metro
40. Nanning 143 NO metro[/QUOTE]
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Old August 12th, 2014, 10:16 AM   #497
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(Shanghai + Suzhou) will be bigger than (Tokyo + Yokohama) by the end of the next decade.
And the two cities' metro systems will merge and intertwine with each as well I'd assume.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 08:44 AM   #498
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Which Nanjing metro stations are served by ground tram or trolleybus?
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Old August 13th, 2014, 09:54 AM   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
While Nanjing's whole border (including rural areas) is wider than Shenzhen, Shenzhen's built-up urban area is actually larger than Nanjing.



With city's rapid expansion the built-up area list has been changing year by year. Here's the 2013 stats,

Rank City Built-up area (in sq km)
1. Shanghai 1563
2. Beijing 1268
3. Guangzhou 700
4. Shenzhen 661
5. Tianjin 605
6. Dongguan 590
7. Hangzhou 551
8. Nanjing 502
9. Suzhou 411
10. Wuhan 408
11. Chengdu 406
12. Shenyang 399
13. Ningbo 395
14. Foshan 373
15. Wuxi 372
16. Xi'an 359
17. Qingdao 337
18. Dalian 318
19. Jinan 310
20. Changzhou 307
21. Zhengzhou 294
22. Chongqing 278
23. Kunming 269
24. Shijiazhuang 265
25. Hefei 263
26. Urumqi 251
27. Xiamen 245
28. Harbin 234
29. Changchun 222
30. Nanchang 222
31. Taiyuan 205
32. Linyi 202
33. Changsha 190
34. Baotou 180
35. Fuzhou 177
36. Huhhot 176
37. Wenzhou 155
38. Kunshan 150
39. Shantou 147
40. Nanning 143

source
David thanks a lot for such interesting figures. Could you tell me where it is more appropriate to discuss them as here it is completely off topic?

P.S. Couldn't imagine Chingqing is so tiny. What about Hong-Kong?
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Old August 13th, 2014, 10:15 AM   #500
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Quote:
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Which Nanjing metro stations are served by ground tram or trolleybus?
Hexi tram interchange stations:
  1. Olympic Stadium East (Line 2)
  2. Yuantong (Line 2 and 10)
  3. Huanghe Rd Station (Line S3 U/C)
  4. Tianhe Rd Station (Line S3 U/C)
Does Nanjing have trollybus lines?

Some pics on Hexi tram opened on Aug 1






(xyykxg)
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