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View Poll Results: Which Airline is the best in SE Asia?
Vietnam Airlines 5 2.28%
Thai Airways International 31 14.16%
Garuda Indonesia 56 25.57%
Phillipine Airlines 18 8.22%
Singapore Airlines 81 36.99%
Malaysia Airlines 28 12.79%
Royal Brunei Airlines 0 0%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 18th, 2014, 09:58 AM   #61
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That's exactly the reason I am so disappointed, frustrated, and agitated with PAL. It cannot truly make up its mind whether it truly wants to become a LCC-wannabe or return to its FSC roots. Yes, I know that PAL could be called the "black sheep" of Southeast Asian aviation, and I believe it can be rightfully called as such because of its intense struggles, not only internally, but also with the government regulating its aviation policies. Yet, I still have hope and faith for the airline to improve significantly, despite the challenges it faces. Remember that it has gone through a triple whammy:

- FAA downgrade to Category 2 (lasted for over 6 years)
- ICAO Significant Safety Concerns (lasted for 3 years)
- EU Blacklist for all Philippine carriers (lasted for 4 years)

Through all of that, multiple changes have taken place, from replacing the agency that handles aviation safety to a rethinking for all local carriers (PAL included). Yes, we may have incurred losses, but, once PAL was taken off from the EU Blacklist and regained Category 1 status from the FAA, it is in a fragile state wherein:

- Any mistake or mishap from the Philippine civil aviation authority could cause a downgrade yet again from either agency;
- The airline is recouping all the losses it has occurred, partly as a result of the long downgrade and ban;
- Philippine Airlines has just retired its B747-400 fleet in favor of the B777-300ER for its flagship routes to the US, and has to downgrade its nonstop London service with an A340-300 due to lack of aircraft; and
- PAL has to keep itself in the black for a period of time before starting to reinvest again in its fleet, maintenance, and lost opportunities occurred during those dark moments in Philippine aviation history.

I can say that PAL has truly become a disgrace that I really have second thoughts on when (or whether) it will improve significantly to the liking of many aviation fans... yet, I believe that through immense pressure and a little push, I think the airline can finally find its way back to becoming a full-fledged full service carrier instead of keeping up with the hybrid model (half-LCC, half-FSC).

If you were to improve Philippine Airlines, therefore, where would you start, and what would you do to make it a better airline than where it is today?
I don't know the answer to that, since I've never been on and planning on flying with PAL. My national carrier is GA. To see that it was once being criticized and now becoming a five star, maybe can be a lesson to PAL. The achievement came with hardworking people from up to bottom. They just don't target or dream to become a five star without improvement. I was a little skeptical five years ago, but three years ago i changed my minds after a domestic flight with GA that far more memorable than the SQ 1/15 and back with 2/16.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 09:26 PM   #62
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The situation of PAL being where it is now could be the same as where Garuda was five years ago. That's how behind the airline is at the moment, and I reckon that it will take time to be better. Yet, I believe that it should be much better than what the low cost carriers can offer, not the other way around. To me, PAL is a case of a LCC wannabe in a country overcrowded with so many LCCs because the Philippines is a price sensitive market, in which consumers there are careful how much they spend for flying in order for them to save money for later... They even feel all right sitting at the back of the plane for such. But, the cabin quality seems unremarkable and not that memorable compared to its peers. And with the intense competition of the airline market worldwide, Philippine Airlines still has the "island mentality", in which it thinks it can survive without an alliance — definitely not true. Someone should really help me advocate for ideas on how to change PAL's image, even in small steps, so that we can forward it to its management and put them on notice where PAL should be going.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 11:38 PM   #63
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The 3 main issues for Philippine Airlines are:

1. The lack of a premium home market.
2. The Philippines are not a large tourist destination.
3. The country is badly geographically positioned for transfer passengers on the Asia to & from both Europa & the US. Especially compared to other countries in East and SE Asia.

The 1st 2 issues makes it harder for the airline to makes the long international flights financially possible that would beneficial to turn the 3rd issue around.

Joining an alliance would help, if only for the know how on running an airline properly just to prevent regulatory issues with the EU and US. But the above issue make the airline not that interesting for the alliances. Now they are the last of the big airlines in the region yet to join an alliance it also makes it more difficult. Will they be seen as the last on that wasn't picked up? That's never a good position to be in.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 11:58 PM   #64
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Absolutely. I treat Philippine Airlines (and myself) on neutral ground on this thread, knowing that PAL has its own strengths and weaknesses. Yet, yes, you're right: a lack of a premium home market has hindered the airline from really taking shape into its full potential, ending up being gobbled by its neighboring carriers. And, I must say: the owners of that airline were not yet given the clue that Philippine Airlines is the last major carrier in Southeast Asia to yet join an alliance. With the recent spate of doldrums the airline (and the country) faced over the past several years, I think it will take a long time for the airline to finally recover and become the FSC it can be... I am hopeful it will happen, though, given the necessary changes to give the airline a huge (and needed) boost.

If there is a magic potion that you can give PAL and its management to recover so quickly and so soon, I would really take part of creating one. Yet, looking realistically, it will indeed take so many steps (missed and not yet seen) that it should take and retrace so that it can be as successful as its peers. I must say that Philippine Airlines, frankly, can be called the "lost sheep" or "black sheep" of Southeast Asia, waiting to be found, rescued, mended, and recovered completely. It may be Asia's first carrier, yet with it being in a fragile shape, it seems that it needs so much more help from local and foreign sources... perhaps reorganizing the management would be a start?

As for the country not being a tourist destination, well, it has some of the best beaches, natural scenic spots, and friendliest people in the world... I think, though, that it is under-utilizing its full potential that it always shows the "weaker" side of the Filipino people and culture. That's why there is so much that needs to be done with the airline -- and the country as a whole -- to recover from decades of past mistakes and errors. I feel like a year of reconciliation, reorganization, and rebuilding may be needed to learn from the past and move forward.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 04:54 AM   #65
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I believe there's a serious disconnect between the public's desire for Philippine Airlines, and the market the airline has to serve.

And I feel that a lot of the reason stems from the management. Perhaps to overcompensate national fears over the privatization of the airline and to demonstrate its patriotism, Lucio Tan has focused Philippine Airlines on serving the very needs of Filipinos living overseas, a.k.a. VFR traffic. This over-reliance on VFR traffic permeates into everything, including destinations, schedules and onboard products - everything is not condusive for the connecting passenger, which is why alliances don't find Philippine Airlines attractive at all.

The fact is that the premium market in Southeast Asia is small, even in the case of Singapore, with SQ commanding a measly 33% of the Singapore Changi market and LCCs with more than 50%. Hence, in order for Philippine Airlines to move into the space of a full-service carrier, brand stretching is imperative to prevent leakage. The airline's current status combines the worst of both worlds - its cost base is too high to be profitable for the fares it's charging while its fares are too high to be considered by the masses for low cost travel.

Marketing is something Philippine Airlines needs to work on, too. IMHO, brands work best when they transcend national boundaries, and the branding and livery is not desirable if PR desires to become a global airline. The flag livery might be a powerful symbol locally, but for foreigners, it does not reflect the people, culture and its potential as a tourist destination. Marketing, for example in Singapore, is done exclusively in Filipino. Even if I wanted to give PR a chance, why would I? The exclusive use of Filipino in its foreign advertising tells me I won't be taken care of.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:51 AM   #66
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Is it okay if I were to share your thoughts on the local threads? I can really see a lot of valid points right there. Indeed, there is a big missing gap that seems to widen as Lucio Tan continues to rule the airline... it's because he does not know how to reach out to its customers well. I suspect that all he wants from the airline is its money, nothing else, not the flyers who may be interested flying with the airline.

The airline's over-reliance on the VFR traffic surely does little to no benefit with the fledgling carrier, hence I've been seeking ways to pressure the airline to change its management from the top down, slowly let go of the hyper-focused nature on the VFR traffic, and do an overhaul of what the airline is and what the people want from it in the first place.

As for marketing, indeed, it leaves so much to be desired. I truly find myself in a dilemma where I would like to fly with another carrier other than PAL because of its poor service... and with it being left out by other carriers and the continuing island mentality, I wouldn't be surprised if it has to fold operations once again (it happened in 1997), if not for good.

If you were a foreigner looking into PAL, what kinds of improvements would you want to demand Lucio Tan, and what would you tell Filipinos on how better to run the airline? I thought of bringing in a foreigner to run the airline... and once he does it, he will see a massive mountain of problems he needs to overcome.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 11:44 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
The 3 main issues for Philippine Airlines are:

1. The lack of a premium home market.
2. The Philippines are not a large tourist destination.
3. The country is badly geographically positioned for transfer passengers on the Asia to & from both Europa & the US. Especially compared to other countries in East and SE Asia.

The 1st 2 issues makes it harder for the airline to makes the long international flights financially possible that would beneficial to turn the 3rd issue around.

Joining an alliance would help, if only for the know how on running an airline properly just to prevent regulatory issues with the EU and US. But the above issue make the airline not that interesting for the alliances. Now they are the last of the big airlines in the region yet to join an alliance it also makes it more difficult. Will they be seen as the last on that wasn't picked up? That's never a good position to be in.
1 and 2 are correct. I agree with those. Number 3 is very debatable. Geography has nothing to do with it. HK is about 1 hour by air, HK is no better than MNL or even Singapore. The main reason why the Philippines is not a transit hub in asia is simply numbers 1 and 2. Market value is very important in promoting a city as a transit hub. If The Philippines and once this country's investment atmosphere became more favorable it is easy for this country to be one of the transit hub in asia because the movement would increase to and from various key cities in the world. The biggest bulk of international travels into the Philippines are mostly filipinos returning from overseas. Tourist are just secondary while investments and business sector would come as third if you can even put it at a tertiary level. Time will tell though....


Quote:
Originally Posted by CGK-SFO View Post
I don't know the answer to that, since I've never been on and planning on flying with PAL. My national carrier is GA. To see that it was once being criticized and now becoming a five star, maybe can be a lesson to PAL. The achievement came with hardworking people from up to bottom. They just don't target or dream to become a five star without improvement. I was a little skeptical five years ago, but three years ago i changed my minds after a domestic flight with GA that far more memorable than the SQ 1/15 and back with 2/16.
Good insight and I think I do agree on these.
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Old January 8th, 2015, 09:28 PM   #68
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Where the Philippines lacks quality connections to and from Europe, it can always go east instead towards North America where Manila has the shortest nonstop connections from Southeast Asia. However, it has been gobbled up by multiple, premier carriers, like:

• Cathay Pacific
• China Airlines
• EVA Air
• Japan Airlines
• ANA
• Korean Air
• Asiana

That offer lower fares yet better service because all of them are part of an airline alliance, while PAL isn't. Now that the fuel surcharge has been removed very recently for both international and domestic flights, I hope that most Philippine flights will become ever more competitive than before, and with foresight, I think that Manila can become better positioned aviation-wise as a transit point for regional and intercontinental flights should it meet the following conditions:

• Better investments in infrastructure
• Less burdens in setting up and shutting down businesses
• A more transparent, stable government
• Better tax collection and financial oversight (also includes making tax rates competitive to its neighbors)
• Lower utility costs (power, water, and sewerage) through investments in better technologies

PAL can benefit from all those if the government finally listens and collaborates with what the people and the private sector need.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 03:41 AM   #69
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The decline in fuel prices recently should be seen as an irregularity. Once the prices go up, in comes the fuel surcharges again.

Unfortunately, if anything, the recent casino announcements at NAIA only show that there's no interest in improving infrastructure. I suppose part of the reason is that global sentiment has been sold on Clark which in any other city, should technically be a viable replacement for NAIA. However, or because of the inability of the government to deliver mega infrastructure projects on time reliably, nobody really wants to go there.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 11:04 AM   #70
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That's why in my own local threads (I also moderate there), I am deeply and utterly concerned of the slow-as-molasses progress of infrastructure development in the country. I feel hopeless, thinking that when MNL gets seriously overcrowded, the government will finally act, but it may come at a huge price that the burden will again be sent to the taxpayers. Hence, it really feels frustrating for me to see my metropolis at a crossroads:

- If MNL runs way beyond its limits, passenger- and runway capacity-wise, it could only be an accident away from a total breakdown, causing dozens of flights to be diverted to Clark and other regional airports;
- Clark may be of the right size as Manila's alternative airport, but, it is mainly connected by an expressway that heavily relies on cars and buses to bring passengers to and from the airport. Add to that the unpredictability of Manila traffic, and accessibility can become a major concern, especially for business travelers; and
- There have been plans for a new airport at the former Sangley Air Force Base just south of Manila, which can be designed to be like Kansai International Airport in Osaka, but the current area is heavily populated and built up that it will require a lot of land expropriations to acquire those properties and make it government property (which can cost billions of dollars and lost homes and buildings).

As much as I want to keep this as my neutral ground, I cannot hide my frustrations about my country's ultra-slow progress in terms of infrastructure development. Sometimes, I ask, who should lead the country when the next election in 2016 comes along?
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Old June 11th, 2015, 01:58 PM   #71
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Is this thread still alive? ��
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Old June 11th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #72
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We can revive it. Just make sure it stays on topic.
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Old June 29th, 2015, 10:38 AM   #73
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The latest ranking



source
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Old July 4th, 2015, 10:44 AM   #74
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This June I flew with:

Denpasar-Jakarta: Airasia
Good flight, good price

Jakarta-KLIA-Tokyo: Malaysian Airlines (buisiness Class)
I flew Malaysian many years before. But nowadays the service of Malaysian is going down. On this flight there were not so polite and they seemed very stressed.

Hongkong-Manila: Philipines Airlines
It was good.

Manila-KLIA-Jakarta: Malaysian Airlines
It was good

Jakarta-Amsterdam: Garuda
Excellent airline!





But in overall Southeast Airlines are very good.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 01:15 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Dru View Post
This June I flew with:

Denpasar-Jakarta: Airasia
Good flight, good price

Jakarta-KLIA-Tokyo: Malaysian Airlines (buisiness Class)
I flew Malaysian many years before. But nowadays the service of Malaysian is going down. On this flight there were not so polite and they seemed very stressed.

Hongkong-Manila: Philipines Airlines
It was good.

Manila-KLIA-Jakarta: Malaysian Airlines
It was good

Jakarta-Amsterdam: Garuda
Excellent airline!





But in overall Southeast Airlines are very good.
thanks for the report may i know what what makes Garuda different from the others so you can say Garuda is an excellent airline?
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Old July 5th, 2015, 09:37 AM   #76
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The latest ranking



source
Looks like Philippine Airlines still needs a lot of work to get to the best airlines in the world... Currently, it is like a 3-star airline, but I know it can be much better. What really drags it down is its hub in Manila, which is already overworked and overcrowded.
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Old July 10th, 2015, 03:06 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Looks like Philippine Airlines still needs a lot of work to get to the best airlines in the world... Currently, it is like a 3-star airline, but I know it can be much better. What really drags it down is its hub in Manila, which is already overworked and overcrowded.
They really have to refurbish their A330s and A340s. Their A330-300's interior looks a little outdated. Wherease for their A340s, at least add an in-flight AVOD option for the passengers, I wouldn't want to fly 11 hours to Vancouver without any in-flight entertainment on demand.
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Old July 11th, 2015, 03:33 AM   #78
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They really have to refurbish their A330s and A340s. Their A330-300's interior looks a little outdated. Wherease for their A340s, at least add an in-flight AVOD option for the passengers, I wouldn't want to fly 11 hours to Vancouver without any in-flight entertainment on demand.
The newer A330s have 3 classes in it (J, W, and Y), while the oldest ones have been retired. The A340s, on the other hand... yeah, they really need a lot of TLC in it. I've been asking my folks over at the Philippine Forums when they will change the layout, and I thought, since it is leased, then adding features or modifying the aircraft may be unlikely. Unless, of course, Philippine Airlines will invest in getting the A350-900XWB (since Airbus visited the Philippines last May with that particular aircraft type for PAL and Cebu Pacific to consider).
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Old July 14th, 2015, 06:53 PM   #79
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garuda for sure
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Old July 14th, 2015, 07:14 PM   #80
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What do you mean?
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