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Old October 9th, 2015, 10:57 PM   #421
Nexis
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Aren't most of those lines commuter rail?
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Old October 9th, 2015, 11:03 PM   #422
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Yes, many are. The Waxahachie line is commuter. However, the Midlothian is both commuter and DART. Mansfield is commuter/ Midlothian line to Dallas is DART
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Old October 10th, 2015, 01:33 AM   #423
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Like ive said before the Commuter rail lines should all feed into Downtown Dallas instead of forcing riders to connect to DART for that service.
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Old October 10th, 2015, 09:50 PM   #424
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The commuter trains will all feed into downtown Dallas via the Union Terminal. Originally DART wanted to extend its light rail into Waxahachie. However, opposition in the city of Red Oak and Waxahachie prevented DART from ever doing that since the people in these towns were primarily afraid of riding on trains that would make stops in the worst parts of South Dallas. Since the BNSF railway already exists and extends right at the Union Terminal, a alternative has been proposed to run commuter trains to said towns to the Union Terminal. It is cheaper and safer as the commuter train will avoid any stops in the worst parts of Dallas.
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Old October 11th, 2015, 06:29 AM   #425
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The commuter trains will all feed into downtown Dallas via the Union Terminal. Originally DART wanted to extend its light rail into Waxahachie. However, opposition in the city of Red Oak and Waxahachie prevented DART from ever doing that since the people in these towns were primarily afraid of riding on trains that would make stops in the worst parts of South Dallas. Since the BNSF railway already exists and extends right at the Union Terminal, a alternative has been proposed to run commuter trains to said towns to the Union Terminal. It is cheaper and safer as the commuter train will avoid any stops in the worst parts of Dallas.
I have never understood this line of thinking. As if, suddenly, a nice new train gives the "worst parts of Dallas" a miracle tool to infringe upon the "nicer areas"

Is there some barrier (besides social/economical) to these nice areas that a person is physically unable to pass through? Do they not have cars or any other mode of transportation to this area?

There's also the bullshit argument that someone from the "worst parts" is excluded from the pristine upper-class sections simply because their level of income isn't near or on the same level as some.

You want to argue against rail? Sure, but choose a better argument than thinly veiled racism/classism.
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Old October 11th, 2015, 10:44 PM   #426
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I have never understood this line of thinking. As if, suddenly, a nice new train gives the "worst parts of Dallas" a miracle tool to infringe upon the "nicer areas"

Is there some barrier (besides social/economical) to these nice areas that a person is physically unable to pass through? Do they not have cars or any other mode of transportation to this area?

There's also the bullshit argument that someone from the "worst parts" is excluded from the pristine upper-class sections simply because their level of income isn't near or on the same level as some.

You want to argue against rail? Sure, but choose a better argument than thinly veiled racism/classism.
The argument is that people are afraid to ride the trains that pass and stop in the bad areas because it makes them feel unsafe. Is that classicism? Racism? To argue that these are the reasons is a very myopic and emotionally fueled perspective that ignores the broader details. Using these labels is only making a straw-man argument. It has to do, as previously stated, with security issues. The fact is people do not feel safe in South Dallas. And that is not racist. It is logical because South Dallas is very dangerous and nobody wants to put themselves in danger by riding on a train into said areas. With cars most people take the freeways which are, in ways, barriers that cuts expediently through said bad parts of town. Again, the areas are not safe and are well known for bad and violent crimes that includes gang violence. It's logical for people to not want to ride trains through there. If you were in 1970s New York, you would not dare travel by subway to the Bronx if you didn't live there. Or, like in Chicago today, there are certain areas you avoid. What trains travel into those bad areas of Chicago even locals take precaution to avoid.

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Old October 11th, 2015, 11:15 PM   #427
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The fact is people do not feel safe in South Dallas. And that is not racist. It is logical because South Dallas is very dangerous and nobody wants to put themselves in danger by riding on a train into said areas. With cars most people take the freeways which are, in ways, barriers that cuts expediently through said bad parts of town. Again, the areas are not safe and are well known for bad and violent crimes that includes gang violence.
But what about the obligation the city has to connect residents of South Dallas to opportunity? If a city only provides rail service where rich people will take it, then the system perpetuates and even exacerbates those same disparities that the freeway helped to create. That's just a self-defeating mindset and doesn't really acknowledge the role transportation plays in improving or worsening access to opportunity for a city's most vulnerable citizens.
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Old October 12th, 2015, 03:10 AM   #428
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But what about the obligation the city has to connect residents of South Dallas to opportunity? If a city only provides rail service where rich people will take it, then the system perpetuates and even exacerbates those same disparities that the freeway helped to create. That's just a self-defeating mindset and doesn't really acknowledge the role transportation plays in improving or worsening access to opportunity for a city's most vulnerable citizens.
The South Dallas residents are already connected to opportunity via DART Rail and its various bus routes. The light rail goes directly to Union Terminal, where the E6 Commuter to Waxahachie will go directly to. Via that point it is easy to connect to said commuter train and go to town or whatever opportunities are there. Speaking about Waxahachie, there are zero opportunities in that town. It is struggling to bring in a boom. The point of the commuter line to to connect the town to the opportunities in Dallas. That's the entire point. Those in South Dallas are already connected to the opportunities in Dallas. The disparity exists for those in Waxahachie who have no connections besides a car. And Waxhachie is NOT a rich town. The majority who make its population are blue collar workers or farmers. And, by making this a racial issue, you ignore another point, which is that this is a cheaper alternative than building a new DART Line. Again, the connection already exists for those in South Dallas to the city's opportunities. Making this a racial issue is a self defeating minsdset.
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Old October 12th, 2015, 06:29 AM   #429
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The South Dallas residents are already connected to opportunity via DART Rail and its various bus routes. The light rail goes directly to Union Terminal, where the E6 Commuter to Waxahachie will go directly to. Via that point it is easy to connect to said commuter train and go to town or whatever opportunities are there. Speaking about Waxahachie, there are zero opportunities in that town. It is struggling to bring in a boom. The point of the commuter line to to connect the town to the opportunities in Dallas. That's the entire point. Those in South Dallas are already connected to the opportunities in Dallas. The disparity exists for those in Waxahachie who have no connections besides a car. And Waxhachie is NOT a rich town. The majority who make its population are blue collar workers or farmers. And, by making this a racial issue, you ignore another point, which is that this is a cheaper alternative than building a new DART Line. Again, the connection already exists for those in South Dallas to the city's opportunities. Making this a racial issue is a self defeating minsdset.
Waxahachie has a median income of $43K to Dallas's $42K. So fair enough as far as income goes. That said, it only has a population of 32,000, and it's only 536 ppl/sqmi. Is that really enough people to legitimize a commuter rail line that could cost in the neighborhood of hundreds of millions of dollars? I just don't think so. I think that's money that is far better spent in more dense and more transit-friendly areas.

The dirty little secret of aggressively saying that something isn't a racial issue is that you are, in fact, making it a racial issue. I haven't said a thing about race, though it's clear that Dallas is a very racially segregated metropolis, and public transportation has always been a lightning rod for racial anxiety to play out in the public sphere.
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Old October 12th, 2015, 07:08 AM   #430
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The argument is that people are afraid to ride the trains that pass and stop in the bad areas because it makes them feel unsafe. Is that classicism? Racism? To argue that these are the reasons is a very myopic and emotionally fueled perspective that ignores the broader details. Using these labels is only making a straw-man argument. It has to do, as previously stated, with security issues. The fact is people do not feel safe in South Dallas. And that is not racist. It is logical because South Dallas is very dangerous and nobody wants to put themselves in danger by riding on a train into said areas. With cars most people take the freeways which are, in ways, barriers that cuts expediently through said bad parts of town. Again, the areas are not safe and are well known for bad and violent crimes that includes gang violence. It's logical for people to not want to ride trains through there. If you were in 1970s New York, you would not dare travel by subway to the Bronx if you didn't live there. Or, like in Chicago today, there are certain areas you avoid. What trains travel into those bad areas of Chicago even locals take precaution to avoid.
Yes, that's the exact definition of it! How is it so hard to understand this? It is not a strawman argument in any sense of the word. You believe that the prestine suburbia neighborhoods of Dallas are superior to those that do not have the same resources or upbringing as these middle/upper class utopias do, and thus that somehow means they should be excluded from public transportation? Why would these nice areas need the public transportation if the "bad areas" are economically inferior and cannot produce the funds to buy a car? These are the areas that deserve public transportation. You cannot reasonably argue that a group of American citizens do not deserve the same right to public transportation simply because they have a lower social and economical status, without coming across as some inhumane bigot.

Simply plugging your ears and yelling "a la la la la la la if I can't see them on my train then they don't exist!" will only last for so long, before you realize that your inability to come to grips with reality will catch up with you. It's easy to remain ignorant, but you're just that; ignorant.
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Old October 12th, 2015, 07:10 AM   #431
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The South Dallas residents are already connected to opportunity via DART Rail and its various bus routes. The light rail goes directly to Union Terminal, where the E6 Commuter to Waxahachie will go directly to. Via that point it is easy to connect to said commuter train and go to town or whatever opportunities are there. Speaking about Waxahachie, there are zero opportunities in that town. It is struggling to bring in a boom. The point of the commuter line to to connect the town to the opportunities in Dallas. That's the entire point. Those in South Dallas are already connected to the opportunities in Dallas. The disparity exists for those in Waxahachie who have no connections besides a car. And Waxhachie is NOT a rich town. The majority who make its population are blue collar workers or farmers. And, by making this a racial issue, you ignore another point, which is that this is a cheaper alternative than building a new DART Line. Again, the connection already exists for those in South Dallas to the city's opportunities. Making this a racial issue is a self defeating minsdset.
It became a racial/class/social (pick one, there's an argument to be made for all three) issue when they elected to recuse themselves from a commuter line that could bring in potential "undesirables" from these "bad parts of Dallas"
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Old October 12th, 2015, 08:03 AM   #432
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Waxahachie has a median income of $43K to Dallas's $42K. So fair enough as far as income goes. That said, it only has a population of 32,000, and it's only 536 ppl/sqmi. Is that really enough people to legitimize a commuter rail line that could cost in the neighborhood of hundreds of millions of dollars? I just don't think so. I think that's money that is far better spent in more dense and more transit-friendly areas.

The dirty little secret of aggressively saying that something isn't a racial issue is that you are, in fact, making it a racial issue. I haven't said a thing about race, though it's clear that Dallas is a very racially segregated metropolis, and public transportation has always been a lightning rod for racial anxiety to play out in the public sphere.
Actually, I am not making it a racial issue. The one turning this into an issue of race is Yeezus2
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Old October 12th, 2015, 08:06 AM   #433
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You cannot reasonably argue that a group of American citizens do not deserve the same right to public transportation simply because they have a lower social and economical status, without coming across as some inhumane bigot.
Public transportation already exists in those areas...
You're turning this into something it is not.
Also, you have purposely ignored my main points...

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Old October 12th, 2015, 03:27 PM   #434
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In car-centric Texas, cities reap economic boon from light rail

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/car-c...on-light-rail/
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Old October 15th, 2015, 04:57 AM   #435
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Public transportation already exists in those areas...
You're turning this into something it is not.
Also, you have purposely ignored my main points...
Simply saying "you're ignoring my points" doesn't actually mean I'm ignoring your points. It just means you can't formulate a reasonable response that doesn't come across as entitled jackassery.

I've responded to your points, and it's pretty clear the other people who have joined the conversation would agree.
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Old October 15th, 2015, 05:01 AM   #436
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Public transportation already exists in those areas...
You're turning this into something it is not.
Also, you have purposely ignored my main points...
But I'll go ahead and respond to this other point that you raise (which, ironically, you haven't said anything to my responses except complain, so lol)

Your point is that this area has public transport, which, good! Most areas have public transport in the form of buses. Which, by your logic, means that this "bad area" doesn't need a shiny new train, which would get higher ridership and usage, but the area that doesn't want to travel through a culturally and economically diverse area does.

So basically, the more "well-off" people deserve a nicer form of public transit because they're better than the people in the "bad area"

I love your reasoning here. It's amazing that you represent a population in my state that I thought only existed in rural counties. Keep up the good work mate.
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Old October 15th, 2015, 06:25 PM   #437
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By datas available on internet, I think that is impossible to build succesful light rail line to Wahahachie. The distance is so long, and there is not so much people live there.

Even if the population tripled, the potential rapid transit would never have had more than 300 passengers per mile per day. Existing single track freight line has a reserve capacity, and it is possible to make feasible commuter rail. But, better is to take into consideration regional rail (all day service), with light weight DMU-s, then classic commuter rail. Start with 30min headway in peak hours, and hourly midday, evening and weekend service. It is really possible with single track railroad with some improvements.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 01:20 AM   #438
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But I'll go ahead and respond to this other point that you raise (which, ironically, you haven't said anything to my responses except complain, so lol)

Your point is that this area has public transport, which, good! Most areas have public transport in the form of buses. Which, by your logic, means that this "bad area" doesn't need a shiny new train, which would get higher ridership and usage, but the area that doesn't want to travel through a culturally and economically diverse area does.

So basically, the more "well-off" people deserve a nicer form of public transit because they're better than the people in the "bad area"

I love your reasoning here. It's amazing that you represent a population in my state that I thought only existed in rural counties. Keep up the good work mate.
You love my reasoning? I love how you twist everything I say and try to make a strawman to make me look like I am of a racist nature, when it is you who are contriving this on your own accord. "Well-off"? I guess you ignored the past post where it was pointed out that the median income earnings in the town are very low... Gee, seems like you're not very concerned about those who are not well off in Waxahachie. Well, I wouldn't expect anything reasonable from someone who has a "KANYE FOR PRESIDENT 2020 WE HERE FAM" banner. That tells everyone all there is to know about your mindset...

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Old October 19th, 2015, 08:12 AM   #439
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Is there a commuter bus to Waxahachie? If not that should be set up...like right now. No reason not to at least try it, surely it wouldn't cost that much. A ride is a ride. Besides a bus could hit more destinations than just downtown.

If the demand was high enough it could motivate an investment in a train.

Besides coach buses are nice. I rode the RTD route from Denver to Boulder, cost a few bucks. Big comfy seats, pretty chill. Had to sit next to a stranger but when you fly in an airplane its the same thing. The bus took a freeway the whole way and since I was traveling from downtown to another it was as fast if not faster than taking a car and dealing with parking.
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Old October 20th, 2015, 01:40 AM   #440
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Well spotted! First precondition for urban rail line in car-centric city is good bus line on the same route. That is an entrance exam. Most of USA cities have unfrequent bus lines, with very poor midday evening and weekend service. For this distance, non rush hour minimum standard is a bus every 20 minutes.

As I understand, the citizens from Waxahachie and Red Oak just WANT the commuter rail. Why don't make a feasibility study? For rail, acceptable frequency is different because of comfort, velocity, visual indentity, simple orientation... but in any case, it could be better if it is more frequent then just one train per hour.

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