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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #21
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Quote:
That's not really a helpful comment.
I'm not here to "help" people.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:26 AM   #22
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Took those when I was there in August:

[IMG]http://i35.************/kd0778.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i34.************/119t7a0.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i37.************/icsg2c.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i37.************/2vik12v.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i38.************/2rx5k.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i38.************/2db6vkl.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i33.************/rck77b.jpg[/IMG]
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:28 AM   #23
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[IMG]http://i34.************/mw4a4k.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i34.************/2ymxh1w.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i34.************/f00mx5.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i35.************/mv67br.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i37.************/14wsgea.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i33.************/2i29yte.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i34.************/s6j4ht.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i35.************/ogvq0m.jpg[/IMG]
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isek View Post
Anyway i do not find Cologne's systems too much impressive. Despite the S-Bahn they are lacking of somehow "fast" transit...
What would "fast" transit look like?
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:42 AM   #25
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He is probably talking about a proper U-Bahn system like in Munich, Berlin, Hamburg or Nuremberg. However, I do not see a reason why they spend so much money on something the city does not need.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 03:29 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
I figured as much

A pretty damn comprehensive network for a city which is smaller than Auckland.
?? Sorry ?? Hmmm, well no actually, you are comparing Apple's with Oranges. Auckland's 1.4million population is the metropolitan area figure which you are comparing with Cologne's city proper population.

This is more or less how it goes:

Auckland city proper: 438,000 (density of 687.8km²)
Cologne city proper: 995,397 (density of 2,457km²)
(Density plays a big role in the success of public transportation)

Auckland Urban Area: 1.3million people
Cologne Urban Area: 2million people
(The method urban area's are defined does differ dramatically between country's, and Cologne is a complicated model to study as unlike Auckland, a break in the urban area may only be 200m and then another large urban area might begin but not be included in the population)

Auckland Metropolitan Area: 1.4million
Cologne (Part of the Rhein Ruhr Metropolitan Area): 12million

There are approx 20million people within 1hour from central Cologne
http://www.expoxxi.de/eoev21/client/...e.aspx?page=35

The Metropolitan area does play a large roll in all of the public transport facilities that are available in these cities including Cologne. For instance, Dusseldorf is a mere 20minutes away by train. I know people who commute between Cologne and Dusseldorf and of course they continue to their final destination by local transport like the U-bahn in each city.

So no. Auckland is not in any measure or form larger than Cologne.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 08:41 AM   #27
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In fairness though, if we are to use the whole of the Rhein Ruhr Metropolitan Area, we should consider the transit systems for the whole metropolitan area - all the Stadtbahn, tram and S-bahn networks across the region rather than just Köln.

Either way you cut it, they do very well as far as public transit goes, especially when compared to the debacle that is Auckland and transport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunnen View Post
Well, especially with public transport that is not entirely true, I think. Due to the stupid tariff system, in most cases it is quite unattractive to visit Cologne when you come from Düsseldorf or the Ruhr Area.
I thought the VRR tariff system was fine. It's integrated and zoned according to how far you travel. Sounds no different to the system used in every single Western European metropolitan area (and certainly more cohesive than most British transit systems outside of London. Try travelling between Liverpool and Manchester on one ticket easily and you'll see how disorganised fare collection really is).
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Old November 29th, 2008, 11:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahnsteig4 View Post
He is probably talking about a proper U-Bahn system like in Munich, Berlin, Hamburg or Nuremberg. However, I do not see a reason why they spend so much money on something the city does not need.


Well, since the new Nord-Süd tunnel project is completed the situation will get improved a lot. The travel speed of Cologne's Stadtbahn system is not very fast now.

Anyway. If you would start from zero Cologne should build core lines (let's say three diameter lines) made up of fully independent lines with an station distance of around 500 m to 800 m and a max speed of 80 km/h.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
I thought the VRR tariff system was fine. It's integrated and zoned according to how far you travel. Sounds no different to the system used in every single Western European metropolitan area (and certainly more cohesive than most British transit systems outside of London. Try travelling between Liverpool and Manchester on one ticket easily and you'll see how disorganised fare collection really is).
Yes, there's nothing wrong with the VRR tariff system. Except that Cologne and Bonn aren't part of it.

The Cologne Stadtbahn network itself is great though, I think. It is reasonably fast and has a very good coverage.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:21 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunnen View Post
Yes, there's nothing wrong with the VRR tariff system. Except that Cologne and Bonn aren't part of it.

The Cologne Stadtbahn network itself is great though, I think. It is reasonably fast and has a very good coverage.
I thought that the S-bahn in Cologne was covered by VRR? I know that Cologne itself is VRS, but I thought the S-bahn overlapped. I'm probably wrong though.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 03:55 PM   #31
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germany and cologne have one of the best subway,metro,....
system in the world!
so all discussions are bullshit cause i was in france and dubai,sydney,los angeles and new york and no one has a systemlike n germany!
we have the bést system of buses and trains!
they have a very high coordination!
for example if i use the train to some station there is always a bus station´next to it!
so nobody can rally compare germany to any other country!
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Old November 29th, 2008, 04:03 PM   #32
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After all, you're right. Let's close the whole forum.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 06:54 PM   #33
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yeaaaaaaaaaah germany rules baby
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Old November 29th, 2008, 07:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarbaze tabarestan View Post
germany and cologne have one of the best subway,metro,....
system in the world!
so all discussions are bullshit cause i was in france and dubai,sydney,los angeles and new york and no one has a systemlike n germany!
we have the bést system of buses and trains!
they have a very high coordination!
for example if i use the train to some station there is always a bus station´next to it!
so nobody can rally compare germany to any other country!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarbaze tabarestan View Post
yeaaaaaaaaaah germany rules baby
I was hoping u would post some nice pictures, maybe old maps and stuff instead of trolling and talking crap.
That's a shame.

btw. Could u remember me how long has been under construction the latest underground extention south from 'Dom' ? I's only 3.9km long tunel. They started in 2004 and it will last for next 3 years or so - in that time (i mean 3 years) the Spaniards built 41km of Metro Sur!

Has anyone pics? Köln looks like really pretty nice Stadtbahn stystem!

@Bahnsteig4 - u didn't disappointed me again! [auf dich kann man sich immer verlassen, Kumpel, wenn's um Fotos geht! ]
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Last edited by Falubaz; November 29th, 2008 at 07:39 PM.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 08:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
In fairness though, if we are to use the whole of the Rhein Ruhr Metropolitan Area, we should consider the transit systems for the whole metropolitan area - all the Stadtbahn, tram and S-bahn networks across the region rather than just Köln.
If we did include all the transport systems of the Rhein Ruhr and make a single map, even with just the rail infrastructure, it would be large indeed.

My point was merely to correct jarbury on the population issue. Though I certainly don't blame him as it is a common mistake people make as most don't realize that different country's quote different definitions as their default choice. But looking at the whole picture brings everything into perspective.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 10:45 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Bahnsteig4 View Post
A very Chinese point of view, if I may say so.
You may not. Chinese cities are building the world's largest public transport systems on the planet as we speak.

Very unnecessary and indeed non-helpful post. It's not the first time I see derogatory comments against China and Chinese people from you.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #37
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Is there a significant higher percentage of threads within that subforum that turn rapidly into a "everything vs. everything" thread??


Pictures

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Station Leyendeckerstraße
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Chorweiler
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yeah, graff all the way!
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????? wtf!
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Old November 30th, 2008, 12:18 AM   #38
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Quote:
You may not.
Not in China. Down here, I may. But thanks for your educational efforts.

Quote:
Chinese cities are building the world's largest public transport systems on the planet as we speak.
That's great for everybody - like I said. A big step forward!

Quote:
It's not the first time I see derogatory comments against China and Chinese people from you.
Sorry to hear you actually care about my comments - do I have to feel afraid now? Do you keep track of all critics of China's system? Good job. (Not Chinese people, btw. ) Yeah, there are many things in China that worry me immensely, but since this is not a political thread, how about moving on to the topic?

Quote:
Bahnsteig4 - u didn't disappointed me again!
Thanks! I aim to please.
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Last edited by Bahnsteig4; November 30th, 2008 at 12:42 AM.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 05:50 PM   #39
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I don't think China needs your "worry"-- car ownership is very low and investments in public transportation are higher than anywhere else on the planet. Ever. Nothing to worry about.

Do whatever you like - just don't drive threads off topic with unnecessary and completely irrelevant comments about China.
Start an own thread about "typical Chinese comments" (as if there could be anything "typical" in the behaviour of 1/5 of the world's population). Nice try attempting to disguise your generalizing "typically Chinese" comment as "criticism of the system", by the way. Always entertaining, that one.


Back to Köln...
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Old November 30th, 2008, 06:08 PM   #40
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I smell a lack of confidence on your side if you feel my comments are worth replying to.

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Back to Köln...
Excellent idea. Chinese topics are generally overrated, anyway. And obviously over here we are not informed well enough to judge properly.

Some pictures from this great site, for the lack of own pictures:
www.railfaneurope.net
An amazing source for pictures from all over Europe.









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