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Old January 18th, 2005, 05:02 PM   #181
huaiwei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarius
[IMG]http://cache.***********.com/comp/52006853.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1EC9635E468F3456717757C85AE85A779B[/IMG][IMG]http://cache.***********.com/comp/52006867.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1EAF499CBD4A696C987757C85AE85A779B[/IMG]

[IMG]http://cache.***********.com/comp/52006871.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1EDF4C97FCC5BA98B57757C85AE85A779B[/IMG][IMG]http://cache.***********.com/comp/52006858.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1EB7D0FE777630F1CF7757C85AE85A779B[/IMG]

[IMG]http://cache.***********.com/comp/52006925.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1ECA0679A7F9F5A4497757C85AE85A779B[/IMG][IMG]http://cache.***********.com/comp/52006681.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1E7BA2EB635BD2A90E7757C85AE85A779B[/IMG]
Ah finally the pictures! Thanks!
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Old January 18th, 2005, 05:13 PM   #182
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The new Airbus livery looks great too!!!
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Old January 18th, 2005, 06:02 PM   #183
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The new airbus livery is better then the old one but I still don't like it.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 06:17 PM   #184
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Melbourne upgrades for A380
Tansy Harcourt TOULOUSE
19 January 2005
Australian Financial Review

Melbourne airport has awarded construction group John Holland the project to expand its runway to accommodate the new supersized Airbus A380 aircraft.

John Holland will start work on April 5 and is expected to take up to six weeks to complete the widening of the 3.7 kilometre north-south runway by 15 metres.

Melbourne Airport's owners will spend about $50 million upgrading the runway to handle the 544-tonne A380, which has a wingspan of about 80 metres, and building new aero bridges to cater for its 24 metre height.

The airport is trying to become the first in Australia to be "A380 ready" in the hope that it will encourage the aircraft's first users, Emirates, Qantas and Singapore Airlines, to use Melbourne over Sydney for the trial services of the aircraft.

It is believed Emirates has already decided to fly the aircraft to Melbourne.

Work at Sydney Airport, which is expected to eventually be a major destination for the A380, is yet to begin because of a lack of agreement with the airlines over cost recovery for the works.

However, Sydney Airport boss Max Moore-Wilton is believed to have said the work will be done before the first A380 arrives in Australia next year.

The first fully constructed A380 was "revealed" in the French city of Toulouse last night, in front of more than 5000 guests, including the leaders of Britain, France, Germany and Spain and all 14 launch customers.

Whether airports will be ready to accommodate the supersized aircraft in just over a year has been controversial across the world.

Virgin Atlantic last year year cited a lack of preparedness by Los Angeles airport as a reason for delaying its first deliveries of the plane.

Speaking from the Toulouse unveiling, Melbourne airport chief executive Chris Barlow said he was confident the work at Melbourne would be completed on time.

"Around the world airports are planning for several months of construction to complete the runway widening works. The John Holland Group's staff will work around the clock to complete Melbourne Airport's massive widening project in just four to six weeks," he said.

Airlines operating large aircraft on long-haul flights out of Melbourne are expected to face scheduling issues while the work is being undertaken because the runway being upgraded is the only one that can handle the take-off weight of a fully loaded long-haul aircraft.

Carriers are expected to either fly with reduced loads from Melbourne or else send passengers to Sydney to change planes there for the international leg of their trip.

KEY POINTS
· Melbourne Airport will spend $50 million preparing for the A380.
· It wants to be the first Australian airport fit to take the heavy plane.
· Passengers will face disruption in the construction period.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 10:06 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluga
From The Economist Global Agenda

Boeing’s latest attempt to put things right, the 250-seat 7E7 “Dreamliner”, is born out of a belief that passengers will demand, and future deregulation allow, a big increase in “point-to-point” travel: direct flights between small and medium-sized cities, as opposed to the traditional hub-and-spoke model, in which international passengers fly between a few major airports and are then taken to more out of the way places on feeder flights.
That's a very interesting question. Hub and spoke systems almost always develop where there is no full mesh of connections between all points possible (for whatever reasons, space, costs, complexity,etc...). Now in case of air as the connecting medium one could think that there don't have to be any highways or tracks or lines to be constructed between any two points. You simply start at point A and fly straight to point B, don't you?

Well, actually you don't, as in reality there are in fact highways in the air - airways. And just like highways on the ground each airway has to be "constructed" and "maintained" which creates costs and makes a fully meshed network economically impossible. Airways have to be constructed because if the volume of air traffic rises above a certain level (which is the case in most industrialized countries) the risk of collisions rises above acceptable levels, therefore traffic has to be ordered and directed to make it possible to effectively control it - airways are drawn in the sky. Thanks to the 3 dimensions of air you can of course layer alot of airways above each other but since there always has to be a minimum safety distance between them space is nonetheless limited. Furthermore airways cannot follow any route but have to stay as long over land as possible in order to enable emergency landings - this further shortens the available space. Then there are often no-fly zones above military areas, nuclear reactors, chemical plants or simply densily populated areas which also reduce available space. In the end you have a limited space which results in a limited number of possible airways which results in hub and spoke system as some points (hubs) will have to be given preference over others (spokes) in the assignment of connections. It is no coincidence that in nature you rarely find a fully meshed network as there is always some kind of cost associated with the construction of connections.

To sum it up: air travel allows more direct connections between two points than does ground based travel due to the 3 dimensional space it is using, yet even 3D space is limited and as such we will never see anything like a fully meshed network but rather a continuation of the current hub and spoke system with some augmented direct connections. For the 7E7 I expect it to sell well, but it won't revolutionize air travel, nor will the basic mechanics of hub and spoke be shaken. And the A380 will certainly sell well since major hubs can increase passenger throughput with the same amount of flights.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 10:43 PM   #186
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I think today is a proud day for Airbus and Boeing. For Airbus it is the day its technological ability is on display to the world. For Boeing, confirmation of its might in that it has taken 35 years for someone to come up with a worthy competitor to the 747.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 11:22 PM   #187
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By the way, the apperances of Blair, Chirac, Zapatero and Shroeder couldn't be more blatant implication of how the government subsidizes Airbus. I didn't see Clinton there with the launch of the 777.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 11:52 PM   #188
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why bother with Clinton when you can get the Pentagon there instead
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Old January 19th, 2005, 04:17 AM   #189
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Size comparison: An-225, A380, 747-400 (from ssp forum)

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Old January 19th, 2005, 06:24 AM   #190
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very good mike, your explanation was on the point annd quite easy to understand and agree...it make a lot of sense what you said...

it makes boeing claims look a bit like a big lie as their presumptions is based on the huge need of connection between small/medium-sized cities , and the ability of the 7E7 to fullfill that specific need !

but in fact it's much easier to say than to do, so your post was very useful in understanding that
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Old January 19th, 2005, 08:13 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
For the 7E7 I expect it to sell well, but it won't revolutionize air travel, nor will the basic mechanics of hub and spoke be shaken.
Very well said Mike and Kony.

Whoever still thinks 7E7 will Revolutionize air travel just consider this, 7E7 already exists, how many 300-seats airplanes do we have today? 7E7 is nothing new, it's just a newer version of the medium-sized airplanes. The main advantage of 7E7 is more fuel efficiency, higher indoor humidity, and larger windows all wrapped up with a newer skin.

7E7 is like an improved version of Toyota Camry, whereas A380 is like a stretched version of Mercedes Benz.
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Old January 19th, 2005, 10:24 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huaiwei
Airbus Says 1st A380 Is Lighter Than Target Weight

Jan. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's largest maker of commercial aircraft, said the first new 555-seat A380 airliner weighed in under target, meeting all performance guarantees and alleviating concern the model would be heavier than planned.

The first aircraft, unveiled today at a ceremony in Toulouse, France, weighs 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent less than a target of 245 tons when empty, Airbus Chief Operating Officer Gustav Humbert said in an interview.

``We can match all the performance guarantees we've made to airlines,'' said Humbert. ``I can really say we are on the safe side.''

Airbus is introducing the A380 to guard a lead over Chicago- based Boeing Co. in the $50 billion-a-year market for airliners seating more than 100. The model's 12 billion-euro ($16 billion) development cost is about 15 percent more than originally budgeted as the Toulouse-based planemaker struggled meet weight guarantees to airline customers and test-flight deadlines.

``In the competition with Boeing, Airbus has the upper hand,'' said Davide Sciannimonaco, head of Italian sales at Societe Generale's Paris-based asset-management unit, which has about $10 billion in assets. ``We can surely expect a counteroffensive from Boeing, maybe adjusting the price of its planes.''

Animated Figures

The planemaker displayed the A380 at an event featuring computer-generated and laser-outlined animated figures, live dancers and acrobats representing Airbus's four partner countries and graphics of the A380's design in a blue-lit auditorium set up in a hangar.

The aircraft was lit up after speeches by French President Jacques Chirac, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero and U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair.

The planemaker is designing the A380 to cost 15 percent less to operate than Boeing's 747-model plane, Humbert said, reiterating an earlier goal. The A380 has a list price of $280 million, compared with $198 million to $227 million for the 747- 400, the Boeing model's latest version.

The plane was physically weighed section by section on special scales, Humbert said. The plane as a whole will be weighed before the first test flight, scheduled for late March or early April, he said. Meeting the performance targets means Airbus isn't liable to pay penalties to the airlines.

``We had a problem with weight,'' and ``We took care of it'' by using different materials, Humbert said. ``We are certain that we won't have to pay any penalties'' to airlines because of overweight questions.

A380's Size

The double-decker A380 has a wingspan of 80 meters (262 feet), almost the length of an American football field. It's 73 meters long and will weigh as much as 569 tons when fully loaded for takeoff. It will have a range of 8,000 nautical miles (14,820 kilometers) compared with 7,600 nautical miles for the Boeing 747- 400. The first plane is scheduled to enter service in June 2006 with Singapore Airlines Ltd.

Forgeard said in July that the A380 was about 2 percent heavier than the weight target set when Airbus first decided to build the plane. Chief Commercial Officer John Leahy said on Jan. 12 that the plane was about 5 tons, or ``less than 1 percent,'' heavier than the target weight when full.

The new model gives Airbus a product line ranging from the 107-seat A318 airliner to an A380 charter-flight version able to seat 800 people.

Market Forecast

Airbus last month forecast that it will win as many as 700 contracts for the A380 in the next 20 years, out of a total market for 1,250 planes seating at least 400 passengers and 398 freighter versions. The planemaker expects the A380 will break even with 250 orders. Boeing's industrywide estimate for larger airliners, by contrast, is only one-third of Airbus's.

Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's third-biggest airline, will probably order more A380s than the 15 it already has on order, Chief Executive Officer Wolfgang Mayrhuber said.

``Lufthansa has never made only a single order for any type of aircraft,'' Mayrhuber said in an interview in Toulouse.

Richard Branson, Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd.'s owner, told journalists in Toulouse yesterday that his carrier is also likely to buy more A380s. The London-based carrier already has a contract for six of the planes.

Airbus's ``plan to sell 750 of the A380 over the life cycle of the plane is realistic,'' said Tim Albrecht, a fund manager at DWS Investment in Frankfurt.

``One can assume that airlines with big orders of more than 10 planes or those who have committed themselves to buying an A380 very early will get a discount of about 20 percent,'' Albrecht said. ``This would mean that the A380 will sell for about $220 million.''

Shares of European Aeronautic, Defense & Space Co., Airbus's 80 percent owner, fell as much as 65 cents, or 2.7 percent, to 23.05 euros and were down 2 percent at 23.23 euros as of 1:22 p.m. in Paris. Shares of BAE Systems Plc, Airbus's other owner, fell as much as 1.5 pence, or 0.6 percent, to 241.75 pence and were down 0.5 percent at 242 pence in London.

but i thought the first 380 only got small part of seats installed. So i guess the final prototype would be couple percent higher than target??
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Old January 19th, 2005, 10:34 AM   #193
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i think 7E7 use a high percentage of carbon fiber, lighter material (save fuel), other than A380, does any other planes use it??
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Old January 19th, 2005, 04:29 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincent
but i thought the first 380 only got small part of seats installed. So i guess the final prototype would be couple percent higher than target??
Hm....the article didnt say much, but I think the target it is refering to here is the empty weight...without seats and all. Whether the targeted weight for a fully equiped and loaded plane has been met is yet to be tested thou...?
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Old January 19th, 2005, 06:13 PM   #195
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With so many passengers and outdated weight assumptions used to calculate flight safety measures, the next step will probably be updating those assumptions to today's standards. Imagine a plane of 800 passengers using a 10% underweight measure. That may result in a plane crash.
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Old January 19th, 2005, 06:17 PM   #196
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Yeah....with people eating more fast food nowadays, it might help to offer less seats on flights out of Hong Kong, for example.
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Old January 19th, 2005, 06:33 PM   #197
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Actually, overcapacity problems are much larger in Singapore, with a large number of seats on budget carriers and not enough passenger growth to support it. In fact, industry watchers are awaiting consolidation and possibly bankruptcies in that sector.

The overweight problem is much more problematic in North America, especially in America, where average weights are shooting higher and higher while aviation standards haven't kept up with this growth. This is a well-publicized problem that most American aviation industry followers should know.
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Old January 19th, 2005, 06:38 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Actually, overcapacity problems are much larger in Singapore, with a large number of seats on budget carriers and not enough passenger growth to support it. In fact, industry watchers are awaiting consolidation and possibly bankruptcies in that sector.

The overweight problem is much more problematic in North America, especially in America, where average weights are shooting higher and higher while aviation standards haven't kept up with this growth. This is a well-publicized problem that most American aviation industry followers should know.
You are obviously sidestepping my comment. What does seating overcapacity gotta do with the weight of passengers?
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Old January 19th, 2005, 06:42 PM   #199
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What value does your comment have on Americans' overweight problemissue and how it affects safety in the skies? Don't sidestep the issue here.

So you haven't been following this issue. I thought it was quite prominent and easy for aviation followers to pick up.
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Old January 19th, 2005, 06:46 PM   #200
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After fanfare, Airbus A380 now must prove it can fly

PARIS, Jan 19 (AFP) - After its glitzy debut, the new Airbus super-jumbo jet A380 now must prove soon it can fly, and eventually turn a profit.

Airbus unveiled the world's biggest passenger jet Tuesday at a spectacular sound-and-light ceremony in Toulouse, southern France, where the leaders of France, Britain, Germany and Spain cheered Airbus's latest victory over Boeing for aviation dominance.

The spotlight moment came as Airbus celebrates its second straight year of besting Boeing in global aircraft sales, and an estimated 57 percent share of the passenger aircraft market.

At the ceremony in Toulouse, where Airbus is based, the company's chief executive Noel Forgeard indicated the maiden test flight for the A380 would be held in late March or early April.

But the exact date will be kept under wraps to "not put pressure on the test pilots," he said.

Indeed, time is short for the grandest project envisioned by the European aircraft maker to take a reality test. The Airbus flagship is due to enter service next year.

The stakes could hardly be higher.

The development cost of the project amounts to 10.7 billion euros (13.9 billion dollars), borne by Airbus which is 80 percent owned by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company and 20 percent by BAE Systems of Britain.

Airbus expects the project will break even in 2008 with the sale of 250 A380s. Currently, Airbus has firm orders for 139 of the planes from 13 airlines around the globe.

The behemoth, the world's first double-decker passenger plane, carries a catalogue price of 263-286 million dollars, however, aircraft discounts are commonplace. Once past the break-even point, Airbus is banking on selling 35 A380s a year.

For Claude Lelaie, the Airbus chief of test flights who will make the inaugural A380 flight with his chief test pilot, Jacques Rosay, the moment of truth begins simply.

"Fear -- there's not much time to think about it," Lelaie told Europe 1 radio Wednesday.

"The first flight is an extremely simple flight, in itself. We begin with just getting to know the plane. We have to find out what's in its belly," Lelaie said.

"You have to see if the landing gear pulls up right, how the plane behaves at a fast speed, if the flight controls are well-adapted... and bring the plane back down safely," he said.

Nevertheless, parachutes are a must for test pilots.

"Yes, it's true that we have a parachute on our backs and an evacuation hatch," he said in the radio interview. "Perhaps not for the first flight, but for the later ones in which we'll test the plane's vibration norms and we try very, very high speeds to test its limits compared with normal flight, there is a little more risk."

Asked about the date for the test flights, Lelaie replied: "We will fly when the plane is ready. As for us, we are ready."

The public will get its first look at the A380 super-jumbo jet at the Paris Air Show in June.

And the first commercial deliveries -- to Singapore Airlines -- are due in the first quarter of 2006.

The A380, which will break the monopoly held by Boeing's 747 on the super-jumbo market, represents a huge economic gamble for Airbus and symbolizes the emergence of Airbus as king of the skies.

The program, launched in December 2000, banks on a strategy of transporting huge numbers of passengers.

Boeing, for its part, is skeptical about the A380's commercial prospects and instead sees the need for long-distance, fuel-efficient flight, embodied in its future 7E7 plane.

Beyond the two rivals' differences on strategy, they do agree on at least one thing for their future planes: Both companies have chosen blue, grey and white color schemes.
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