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Old January 19th, 2005, 07:26 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
What value does your comment have on Americans' overweight problemissue and how it affects safety in the skies? Don't sidestep the issue here.

So you haven't been following this issue. I thought it was quite prominent and easy for aviation followers to pick up.
Haha...again I see your illness erupting again. Me sidestep from what? You know what I was talking about?

What do you mean by MY comment on Americans' overweight "problemissue"? Was it my comment, or YOURS?
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Old January 19th, 2005, 07:51 PM   #202
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Here is an example why I brought up the weight issue. Especially with a plane with so many passengers, how large a margin of error will it take before air safety is comprised?

I wonder how the Hong Kong capacity issue has anything to do with the overweight problem. Perhaps some people don't think before they write?

Obviously, fixtures are easy to account for because they can be easily weighted and that is fixed. However, passenger weights do fluctuate and have been rising. Does anyone else have a take on this weight issue?

Extra weight led to crash; People 567 lbs. heavier than thought Ministry alters its standard estimates
Toronto Star
08 October 2004

When Georgian Express Flight 126 took off from Pelee Island airport on an afternoon last January, its engine was running and its structure was sound, but one thing was amiss: it was 1,270 pounds overweight.

Soon after, the plane crashed into the ice of Lake Erie, killing the pilot and all nine passengers on board.

Six months later, an investigation by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada revealed about half of the extra weight was on board because the calculated weight for the people on the flight using old standard weights was 567 pounds less than their actual weight.

The investigation has led the Ministry of Transportation to use higher safety values for standard average weight of passengers on all airplanes.

Increasing standard passenger average weights by 15 pounds for adult males and 25 pounds for adult females was in response to a recommendation by the safety board.

The board released two major recommendations for the ministry.

The first asks for a re-evaluation of the standard average weights. The second urges "the use of actual passenger weights for aircraft carrying nine passengers or fewer, to provide a greater margin of safety."

While standard passenger weights have been revised, the ministry is still studying the second recommendation, ministry spokesperson Lucy Vignola told the Toronto Star yesterday.

Steve Darling of Toronto-based Cameron Airline said he supports the recommendation to use actual weight measures, but doubted it will have a big impact on how pilots conduct themselves. "(By law) we can use standard weights at our leisure ... but our company's policy has always been to use actual weights if we are anywhere close to operating capacity, and this is standard procedure for professional pilots," he said.

Safety board investigator Denis Rivard said the reason behind the "actual weight" recommendation is that the risk of being overweight in small aircraft is higher than in bigger ones.

"In small aircraft, for example the Cessna Caravan involved in the (Pelee Island) accident, the ratio of passenger weight to total weight is 22 per cent whereas in a 747, it is around 7 per cent."
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Old January 19th, 2005, 07:56 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
I wonder how the Hong Kong capacity issue has anything to do with the overweight problem. Perhaps some people don't think before they write?
Was I talking about Hong Kong capacities?

Do you think before answering to my "toughtless" posts?

And lets be honest. Do you even know what I was talking about? You cant seem to understand my jokes or sarcasms, but then again, that is the fun of it all!
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Old January 19th, 2005, 08:31 PM   #204
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what are you two fighting about now?
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Old January 19th, 2005, 10:50 PM   #205
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If a large amount of fat people get on the place am sure the staff will notice and the airline will take the right measures to stop the fat people grounding the plane.
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Old January 19th, 2005, 11:45 PM   #206
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Actually, some American carriers tried forcing fatter people to pay for 2 seats, however, legal challenges forced the airlines to back off.

I wonder what thinking kind of thinking process can drive someone to say :
Quote:
Yeah....with people eating more fast food nowadays, it might help to offer less seats on flights out of Hong Kong, for example.
which has no relevance to the issue on hand. Sarcasm is not an excuse to waste a post, and I wonder what kind of research he has done before making such an absurd point. Is sarcasm an excuse for idiocy? Are moderators allowed to get away with this?
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Old January 19th, 2005, 11:46 PM   #207
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American Airlines doubtful about Airbus A380
January 19, 2005

NEW YORK(AFP) - A top American Airlines executive expressed doubts on the merits of Airbus A380, unveiled this week in France with great fanfare.

The world's biggest jumbo jet to be produced by the European consortium "doesn't really fit with the way we see the world market in the future," said James Beer, chief financial officer of American Airlines parent AMR during a conference call.

The A380 superjumbo, which can carry up to 840 people on its two full decks, will overtake the 747 by US rival Boeing as the biggest civilian aircraft ever made.

Beer, who spoke during a conference call on the company's fourth-quarter results, noted that American had deferred delivery on 54 aircraft from Boeing as a result of financial pressures.

Asked about the Boeing 7E7 "Dreamliner," the US manufacturer's smaller, more economical aircraft, Beer said the airline had no near-term plans to buy any but that it was "clearly a long-term possibility."
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Old January 20th, 2005, 01:55 AM   #208
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it would be great if boeing developed and the 747 advance and then watch it fail against the a380
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Old January 20th, 2005, 02:01 AM   #209
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so I guess American Airlines just 'ain't buyin' nothin'-- no wonder Beer is doubtful about anything other than holding onto his precious job
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Old January 20th, 2005, 02:24 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown-midtown
in my opinon theres no need for the a380 or even the 747 anymore,atleast not right now
Why? Demand for air travel is increasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown-midtown
doubt the livery will look like that
Care to tell us why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
France, Germany and the UK are the main builders of the A380. Actually, 40% of it is made in the US, and some other parts in Spain. Do those countries represent Europe?
Of course Spain represents Europe. The point is, Airbus as a company is a European consortium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto
Spain certainly does!
Anyway... I don't think boeing planes are 100% built in the USA Lee!
Do you do anything else in life apart from bashing Europe/European projects and glorify usa/usa projects?!
Grow up!!
No - Lee is notorious for his blinkered anti-European stance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
You are right, Boeing planes are not 100% made in the US. Over 30% of the 7e7 will be made in Japan. My point was that this plane isn't exclusively "european" because most european nations aren't even involved, and non-european nations like the US are building large parts of it, like for example its software-produced by Honeywell.
You're completely missing the point Lee. Airbus is a European company, and this is a product of that European company. It's no different to Ford - it's an American company, but do you think it's products are 100% US-sourced? Far from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown-midtown
"makes me proud beeing european"-rufi
yea i would be to,i feel the same way when i see a 747.
hopefully the a380 is a sucess(not more than 747),but i still hope that boeing does better than airbus.
This pathetic US vs European argument is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that the A380, 7E7 and the likes are spearheading renewed impetus in the airline industry - and that's good for every country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I didn't realize the A380 was that small when compared to the 747. It isn't that much bigger.
It's large enough, don't you think Lee? Of course, I'm sure that had the A380 have been an American product, you'd have been raving about it's size. After all, big is best eh Lee? You really can't stand it, can you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
andy, I never said it wasn't massive. I said it isn't that much larger than the 747 when compared on scale. Not to mention less attractive.
What kind of plane which holds 400-500 passengers can be considered attractive? These vehicles generally have a function. If you want to discuss the most attractive commercial aircraft ever to have graced the skies, look no further than that produced by one joint venture between British Aerospace and Aerospatiale - the Concorde.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I think today is a proud day for Airbus and Boeing. For Airbus it is the day its technological ability is on display to the world. For Boeing, confirmation of its might in that it has taken 35 years for someone to come up with a worthy competitor to the 747.
...and Boeing hasn't ever put a supersonic airliner into service. Lee, will you ever be capable of giving full credit to someone other than Americans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
By the way, the apperances of Blair, Chirac, Zapatero and Shroeder couldn't be more blatant implication of how the government subsidizes Airbus. I didn't see Clinton there with the launch of the 777.
Perhaps that's because Blair, Chirac, Schroeder, et al are more interested in their countries' achievements than pouncing on anything in a skirt that smiles at them.
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Old January 20th, 2005, 03:00 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
By the way, the apperances of Blair, Chirac, Zapatero and Shroeder couldn't be more blatant implication of how the government subsidizes Airbus. I didn't see Clinton there with the launch of the 777.
Plus there's also the fact that the 777 was hardly a technological breakthrough. It was a lower quality version of a plane Airbus already had in service. This is the largest passenger plane in the world. Hardly a comparison is it?
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:22 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
I wonder what thinking kind of thinking process can drive someone to say :

which has no relevance to the issue on hand. Sarcasm is not an excuse to waste a post, and I wonder what kind of research he has done before making such an absurd point. Is sarcasm an excuse for idiocy? Are moderators allowed to get away with this?
Actually, its just an indirect joke based on this post:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=162399

Too bad you cant see the humour in there. Moderators cant joke? Well thats new. Meanwhile, if my post is that wasteful, why you bother replying to it?
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:26 AM   #213
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Humour is no excuse for something irrelevant to the issue on hand, unless you have nothing relevant to contribute anymore.
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:28 AM   #214
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Branson considers setting up new airline to fly Pacific routes - report
20 January 2005
AFX Asia

SYDNEY (XFN-ASIA) - British entrepreneur Richard Branson will set up another Australia-based airline to fly across the Pacific if plans by Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd to fly the route do not proceed, The Australian newspaper reported quoting Branson. The newspaper said that the launch of the Airbus A380 prototype in Toulouse, France brings rival airlines closer to flying to route with the super-jumbos. As a result, Branson is prepared to set up a 51 pct owned Australian company with separate institutional shareholders if necessary.

"If we can work it with Virgin Blue, that will be great," he told the newspaper. "If the board of Virgin Blue decides just to keep it to short haul (flying), then we'll be looking for other Australian partners." Branson's comments came as Qantas Airways Ltd announced it will dedicate its first four 501-seat A380s to its US services when it begins flying the aircraft in the second half of next year. This comes in the wake of an announcement from Singapore Airlines chief executive Chew Choong Seng, who said he would like to fly the A380 between Sydney and Los Angeles. Qantas has ordered 12 A380s, with options for 10 more, and said the first dozen planes would allow the airline to fly at least 17 weekly services between Melbourne and Sydney and Los Angeles and 14 to London via Bangkok, Hong Kong and Singapore.
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:29 AM   #215
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Australia : Jumbo battle of the cities
KAAREN MORRISSEY
20 January 2005
Geelong Advertiser

THE traditional rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne stepped up a notch yesterday as their two international airports began the battle to become the first local city to receive the new super jumbo A380 aircraft.

Melbourne Airport said yesterday that it would definitely be the first airport to be "A380 ready" when work to widen its runways to accommodate the 80-metre wingspan aircraft is completed this May, at least seven months ahead of Sydney Airport.

But although Melbourne will be rearing to go by the time the first long haul 555-seater A380s are due to arrive in Australia from June next year, the airlines involved are likely to head to Sydney first.

Singapore Airlines, which will be the first carrier to use the planes commercially, is certainly expecting an initial landing in Sydney.

"We would anticipate flying the Kangaroo route -- London, Singapore, Sydney -- quite early so we are keen to see that Sydney Airport will be A380 ready,' Singapore Airlines group communications managing director Stephen Foreshaw said.

"We are hopeful and fairly confident that all of the arrangements will be in place by the time that the aircraft is scheduled to operate here."

Mr Foreshaw said the airline was also in discussions with Melbourne Airport and that it anticipates "Melbourne will follow Sydney for the operation of the aircraft fairly quickly."

A Melbourne Airport spokeswoman said the airport did not, at this stage, expect to take line honours in the race but pointed out that discussions with the international airlines that have ordered the aircraft are continuing, and airline schedules were a long way from being finalised.

"In any case, we expect to see them flying into Melbourne reasonably quickly after their introduction," she said.

Emirates, which has ordered 45 of the $260 million aircraft, said yesterday it had not yet decided whether it would fly first to Sydney or Melbourne.

Other airlines intending to fly A380s to and from Australia are Malaysian, Thai, and Qantas, which is planning to direct some of its 12 A380s the aircraft to a Melbourne/Los Angeles route.

Airlines say the ability to move more people at one time is economical and cost efficient.
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:30 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Humour is no excuse for something irrelevant to the issue on hand, unless you have nothing relevant to contribute anymore.
And who are you to say that?
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:34 AM   #217
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How does your comment relate to the overweight problem - specifically the aviation assumptions used by pilots when they draw up their flight plans? So is it a comment without substantiation, without thought, and without relevance to the issue being discussed?
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:37 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
How does your comment relate to the overweight problem - specifically the aviation assumptions used by pilots when they draw up their flight plans? So is it a comment without substantiation, without thought, and without relevance to the issue being discussed?
You still dont see the humour in it, do you?

(I am seriously beginning to wonder why am I bothered about this, but oh well)
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:38 AM   #219
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I don't see how it is adding value to this thread, but then, some people need to keep their post counts high, so things spew out from nowhere.

A hulking beast joins the dogfight
Jan 18th 2005
From The Economist Global Agenda


Airbus has unveiled its new A380 super-jumbo (pictured). Will the 555-seat monster leave Boeing trailing in its wake?

AS DISTINCTIVE Routemaster double-decker buses disappear from the streets of London, Airbus has unveiled a double-decker passenger jet that it hopes will repeat the success of a vehicle that is every bit as iconic: Boeing’s 747. The European consortium’s A380 super-jumbo, which was formally presented at a lavish ceremony on Tuesday January 18th, will break the 747’s longstanding monopoly of the big-jet market when it enters service in 2006. Everything about the new plane is big, from its capacity of 555 paying customers and range of 15,000km (9,320 miles) to the vast curtain that billowed to the ground revealing the A380 bathed in blue light. Bigger, longer-range versions are planned and so far orders have been taken for 149 super-jumbos, over halfway to break-even point.

The size of the project reflects estimates about the future demand for air travel. Despite the recent travails of big airlines, both Airbus and Boeing expect a tripling of air-passenger traffic over the next 20 years. But the transatlantic rivals disagree about how the demand should be met. Airbus thinks an extra 16,600 new large planes (over 100 seats)—a doubling of the number of passenger aircraft currently flying—will do the trick, and expects that the average number of seats in aircraft will increase by 20%, to 215. By contrast, Boeing expects sales of 18,600 slightly smaller planes.

Airbus is hoping that the A380 will help it retain the lead it gained over Boeing in 2003, when, for the first time since the European consortium emerged as a rival to Boeing in the early 1970s, it delivered more aircraft than its American competitor. Airbus, to Boeing’s extreme displeasure, kept the number-one slot in 2004 by delivering 320 planes compared with 285 from its rival, according to figures released this week.

Boeing’s seemingly unassailable lead over Airbus was founded on the success of the 747, which entered service in 1970. The original jumbo jet could carry twice as many passengers as the next largest plane then flying and had a greater range, allowing, for example, a long transatlantic flight without refuelling. Its cost per passenger mile was around one-third less than its rivals. A vast home market for the jumbo and the rest of the Boeing range ensured its ascendancy. Some 1,400 747s have been sold to date.

However, only 15 were delivered last year. And as the jumbo has aged, Boeing’s domination of the commercial airways has foundered. The aerospace giant’s product line is ailing, and attempts to revive it have met with only partial success. The big airlines showed little interest in an upgraded jumbo. And a red-faced Boeing was forced to withdraw its Sonic Cruiser, a plane intended to fly at near the speed of sound, after airlines rejected the idea that passengers would pay a hefty premium for such rapid transit.

Boeing’s latest attempt to put things right, the 250-seat 7E7 “Dreamliner”, is born out of a belief that passengers will demand, and future deregulation allow, a big increase in “point-to-point” travel: direct flights between small and medium-sized cities, as opposed to the traditional hub-and-spoke model, in which international passengers fly between a few major airports and are then taken to more out of the way places on feeder flights. Boeing hopes the new plane will prove popular with the time-conscious business flyer. It says that the 7E7’s advanced engines will cut airlines’ fuel costs by 20%. So far it has received 56 firm orders.

The A380, by contrast, is designed to fly between big hubs. Its critics say it will mean longer journey times for passengers with onward flights to smaller destinations. But Airbus is claiming a similar step-change to the one that accompanied the launch of the 747: operating costs will be 15-20% lower than those of any rival aircraft, it says. To add to Boeing’s discomfort, Airbus announced in December that it would introduce the A350 in direct competition with the Dreamliner, offering much the same specifications.

Boeing’s fears that it would be left in Airbus’s wake also prompted it to attack on another front. In October, America made a formal complaint to the World Trade Organisation alleging the payment of billions of dollars of “unfair” subsidies to Airbus. Boeing claims that “launch aid” has enabled Airbus to roll out five new products in the past ten years while it has managed just one. Like Airbus’s rapid response to the Dreamliner, the European Union immediately said that it would file a counter-claim over large sums of aid going to Boeing through indirect government subsidies from its relationship with NASA and the Pentagon. This week, the EU said that it was ready to compromise to resolve the dispute and both sides agreed to suspend hostilities (and subsidies) for three months of negotiations.

The huge projected market for passenger jets over the coming years will allow both aircraft-makers to sell plenty of new planes. The A380 aside, Airbus and Boeing seem evenly matched. The success of the super-jumbo may well determine how much higher the Europeans fly than the Americans in the next few years.
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Old January 20th, 2005, 06:45 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
I don't see how it is adding value to this thread, but then, some people need to keep their post counts high, so things spew out from nowhere.
And as I asked...who are you? Why do anyone need to tailor their postings based on how YOU value their contributions?

With such a mindset deeply seated in your consciouness, I am beginning to wonder what is going to happen should you take up a leadership position here. Hmm...I will have to seriously evaluate this phenomena.

Meanwhile, my post counts are as high as they are, because I have to ask questions at least 3 times to certain kinds of people, as well as countless posts dealing with folks too shallow to understand jokes. I cant really help it, can I?
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