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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #4321
Alien x
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Enough, this is A380 thread and not Airbus/Boeing size fetish discussion.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 12:17 PM   #4322
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Well, it is not meant to be that, but I'm making a point that the A380 has not been well-received worldwide, and operators are not comfortable to using it because of the economic downturn and bad rep that started with production delays and culminiating in wing cracks. Airlines are not willing to fill up so many seats, which is why the order book is relatively thin compared to the 787, which is a long-haul competitor albeit with a more traditional amount of capacity.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #4323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Well, it is not meant to be that, but I'm making a point that the A380 has not been well-received worldwide, and operators are not comfortable to using it because of the economic downturn and bad rep that started with production delays and culminiating in wing cracks. Airlines are not willing to fill up so many seats, which is why the order book is relatively thin compared to the 787, which is a long-haul competitor albeit with a more traditional amount of capacity.
Well the order-book of 787 is relatively thin compared to A320 but then again one has nothing to do with the other. A350 has not left the ground yet and it has an impressive order-book what does that have to do with anything? As for the cracks, 787 had has been rework for problems on its wings too, so. Airlines in the US and Japan have no interest in this plane because it is the flagship model of Airbus, which has to do more politics their needs. As for sales, A380 has sold at the rate they predicted up to now, where is the failure? Everyone has his opinion you have stated yours others have stated theirs. I don't think you are going to change peoples minds comparing apples and oranges and saying that they are the same thing.

So why are you discussing it here? There is thread for the comparisons of Airbus and Boeing go there.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #4324
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Here's another thought from me: should the A380 get more orders, the most likely customers would be their existing clients, especially EK, because it shows the airlines' trust in the aircraft, even though it has gone through some incidents of wing cracks and an engine explosion (RR's responsibility). It's just that in the current economic scenario, not a lot of airlines would like to invest in a massive airplane, let alone address the externalities needed to operate it (especially with fitting at least two gates at the airports wanting such service to accommodate the aircraft).
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #4325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien x View Post
Well the order-book of 787 is relatively thin compared to A320 but then again one has nothing to do with the other. A350 has not left the ground yet and it has an impressive order-book what does that have to do with anything? As for the cracks, 787 had has been rework for problems on its wings too, so. Airlines in the US and Japan have no interest in this plane because it is the flagship model of Airbus, which has to do more politics their needs. As for sales, A380 has sold at the rate they predicted up to now, where is the failure? Everyone has his opinion you have stated yours others have stated theirs. I don't think you are going to change peoples minds comparing apples and oranges and saying that they are the same thing.

So why are you discussing it here? There is thread for the comparisons of Airbus and Boeing go there.
So you are comparing a single-aisled plane with a twin-aisled plane with vastly different ranges, assuming they cater for the same type of flights?

I'm questioning the logic behind other people's arguments, which don't quite make sense. You can do the same with mine, just as I have just questioned yours.

Airbus probably has set low expectations for the A380, and the A380 hasn't really transformed the long-haul market as Airbus management had originally intended.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #4326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
So you are comparing a single-aisled plane with a twin-aisled plane with vastly different ranges, assuming they cater for the same type of flights?

I'm questioning the logic behind other people's arguments, which don't quite make sense. You can do the same with mine, just as I have just questioned yours.

Airbus probably has set low expectations for the A380, and the A380 hasn't really transformed the long-haul market as Airbus management had originally intended.
I compared, like you, two unrelated classes of plane one with the other, period.

A380 is a new class of aircraft which has been in operation for 5 year and has 89 planes in operation of 262 ordered to date you are right its a total failure. In 5 years what should have they sold or produced of these aircrafts?
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:31 PM   #4327
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Quote:
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I compared, like you, two unrelated classes of plane one with the other, period.

A380 is a new class of aircraft which has been in operation for 5 year and has 89 planes in operation of 262 ordered to date you are right its a total failure. In 5 years what should have they sold or produced of these aircrafts?
Wrong. The 787 and even the A350 are definitely in the same class of plane as the A380. Airlines will think about all of them for their long-haul needs. What makes you think they're not?
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:32 PM   #4328
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I dont think the reason US airlines dont order this plane is politics it is simply because they dont need them. Look at how many US operators have the 747 in their fleet nowdays. Less than in the past right??
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #4329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Wrong. The 787 and even the A350 are definitely in the same class of plane as the A380. Airlines will think about all of them for their long-haul needs. What makes you think they're not?
Lets see a double decker with twin aisle on both w/ 4 engines is the same class as twin aisled single deck aircraft w/ 2 engines. Ok if you say so.

Last edited by Alien x; December 5th, 2012 at 07:48 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #4330
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Quote:
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Lets see a double decker with twin aisle on both is the same class twin aisled single deck aircraft. Ok if you say so.
Capacity is not the sole distinctive factor between aircraft, at least not among the industry knowers. A bigger plane can be a competitor to a smaller plane. Airlines have a lot of options to satisfy their long-haul needs. Some opt for high-capacity, such as the 747 and the A380 for high-traffic routes, or routes where slots are hard to come by (London). Some opt for more frequency, and use smaller twin-engined aircraft to save some fuel and run a few more flights.

The A380 was supposed to be one of several new aircraft on the market made of materials that will save fuel. It, along with the 787 and the A350, have similar range, so either one of the 3 can do a long-haul. The decision then comes down to economics - do they have enough traffic to fill up so many seats?

Clearly, in this economic environment, filling up seats is hard. This is why smaller twin-engined aircraft are still popular, which is why the 787 order book is quite a lot thicker than the A380. Note the 787 and the A380 fly similar-distanced long-haul routes.

You need to consider a lot more about the aviation industry than simply how many bodies sit in an aircraft. Then you'll realize just how the A380 is competing with its smaller counterparts.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #4331
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And you need to look further into the future to judge if an aircraft is a succes or not.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #4332
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Considering China Southern dedicates two A380s to short haul (~2 hr) domestic routes (CAN-PVG, CAN-PEK), they probably should have configured them with 7-800 seats. In China air routes is at a premium so a single plane will replace 5 flights using A320s.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 12:21 AM   #4333
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I beg to differ when one says the 380 is not a game changer. Just look what EK is doing to the industry, and wait till they have all 90 airframes flying, and hints of another 40 orders. Qantas, JAL, ANA, in the east can't compete, European legacys are complaining aswel.

One of the reasons the 380 won't sell in the US is because of union scopes on how many seats an airline can have. AA barely got the OK from the unions to purchase the 77W. The airlines are fighting the unions even on the regional sector by getting approval for 70 plus seaters.

Many more airlines will order this plane thats for sure. It's still in it's early stages.

Whats turning out to be a flop is actually the 748, and it's future is questionable once the 777X program is launched.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 04:50 AM   #4334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Considering China Southern dedicates two A380s to short haul (~2 hr) domestic routes (CAN-PVG, CAN-PEK), they probably should have configured them with 7-800 seats. In China air routes is at a premium so a single plane will replace 5 flights using A320s.
China Southern's A380 will be put into international service once their 3rd aircraft is delivered.
http://www.csair-a380.com/en/newsdetail.aspx?id=107

In fact, CZ mentioned the A380 is part of their Australian strategy to connect them to Europe via Guangzhou.

http://www.csair-a380.com/en/newsdetail.aspx?id=89

Like many other carriers, they were deployed on short routes for trial and familiarization upon delivery.


Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
I beg to differ when one says the 380 is not a game changer. Just look what EK is doing to the industry, and wait till they have all 90 airframes flying, and hints of another 40 orders. Qantas, JAL, ANA, in the east can't compete, European legacys are complaining aswel.

Many more airlines will order this plane thats for sure. It's still in it's early stages.
Yes, Emirates is a game changer for Europe - Asia/Australia travel, but it was a game changer before the A380 came. It is their business model that is a game changer when they flew 777s, 330s, and 340s into many European cities, including the secondary ones. In fact, Emirates' most popular aircraft is the 777. I wouldn't say the A380 suddenly propelled Emirates to its current position.

We see that the 787 has received a far better reception considering it is also a new plane that is in even earlier stages of deployment than the A380. That tells quite a lot about what's happening in the industry and whether the era of the superjumbo is taking a hiatus.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #4335
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Okay guys. Enough.

Now, where is Love Pakistan when you need him?
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:13 AM   #4336
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Hong Kong Air Seeks A380 Order Swap for Smaller Aircraft
By Jasmine Wang - Dec 6, 2012 12:00 AM GMT+0800
Bloomberg Excerpt

Hong Kong Airlines, holder of the biggest backlog of Airbus SAS A380 orders in Asia, is seeking to swap some planes for smaller models because of a new focus on short-haul routes.

The carrier is discussing changing at least some of its 10 on-order A380s for A330s, and delaying deliveries, President Yang Jianhong said by phone yesterday, without giving a timeframe for when talks may be concluded. Airbus doesn’t comment on negotiations with customers, said spokesman Sean Lee.

Hong Kong Air, which is backed by China’s HNA Group, said in August it was reviewing the A380 orders after a slump in long-haul travel caused by slower growth in Europe. The slowdown has also forced Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. (293), Hong Kong’s biggest carrier, to pare capacity and begin a cost-cutting drive.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #4337
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From Preaver

http://www.aviation-community.de/for...10227&start=22

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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:17 AM   #4338
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I heard the Airbus A380 (House color) is having a world tour this month, any info about it? thanks
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:30 AM   #4339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Hong Kong Air Seeks A380 Order Swap for Smaller Aircraft
By Jasmine Wang - Dec 6, 2012 12:00 AM GMT+0800
Bloomberg Excerpt

Hong Kong Airlines, holder of the biggest backlog of Airbus SAS A380 orders in Asia, is seeking to swap some planes for smaller models because of a new focus on short-haul routes.

The carrier is discussing changing at least some of its 10 on-order A380s for A330s, and delaying deliveries, President Yang Jianhong said by phone yesterday, without giving a timeframe for when talks may be concluded. Airbus doesn’t comment on negotiations with customers, said spokesman Sean Lee.

Hong Kong Air, which is backed by China’s HNA Group, said in August it was reviewing the A380 orders after a slump in long-haul travel caused by slower growth in Europe. The slowdown has also forced Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. (293), Hong Kong’s biggest carrier, to pare capacity and begin a cost-cutting drive.
With that case, I suspect that it is ordering some of its A330-200s and -300s with a premium class (C only) configuration, as well as the regular configuration of C and Y classes.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #4340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
With that case, I suspect that it is ordering some of its A330-200s and -300s with a premium class (C only) configuration, as well as the regular configuration of C and Y classes.
No, HX tried all-J for their London route and it flopped. In fact, they axed the route altogether recently. The plane has gone to its parent, Hainan Airlines.
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