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Old May 1st, 2005, 07:41 AM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
O'Hare is such a mess right now...
Speaking of which, what's the latest on the O'Hare "Modernization" Program STR? Is it going to start soon, has it already started, or is opposition still getting in the way?
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Old May 1st, 2005, 07:52 AM   #542
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It looks like it'll go through. It has powerfull support in Congress, which is forcing the FAA to greenlight it, even though there are a number of potential (minor) saftey issues.

However, there's no way to fund it without boosting the ticket fee so high as to price the airport out of the market. American and United, who where going to foot the original bill, can't pay. So the expansion will get approved and there's money for at least one new runway, but after that is anyones guess.

There has been some earth-moving at the site, but if you'd only notice it if you were familiar with the area. I live only 2 mile west of runway 9R/27L and drive around the airport every so often, so I noticed.
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Old May 1st, 2005, 11:24 AM   #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick in Atlanta
Emirates, Malaysia Airlines, Qantas, Singapore, Thai and of course Virgin Atlantic will most likely fly the A380 into London (Heathrow). I don't think Singapore will fly the A380 to Manchester, but Emirates may.
Agreed. The obvious routes which everyone noes SIA will be using is on the Kangaroo route at least from Sydney to Heathrow via Singapore. It mentioned intentions to fly Sydney to LA, until its approved, of coz. Months ago, there has been talk of Singapore-Tokyo-LA. San Francisco was often mentioned early on as well, but remains to be verified.

SIa might also use it for the Singapore-Frankfurt-NYC route, considering it has a solid alliance with Lufthansa.
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Old May 1st, 2005, 11:36 AM   #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andysimo123
Most of the companies that have ordered them also have also put in options to buy more. I can also see alot of other companies buying them in the next 5 years and I think British Airways could be one. Can anyone think of other companies which might put orders in for them.
There is the added effect of the "dominoes"....when one airline buys it, other airlines are likely to follow especially when they are competitors. Qantas, for example, bought the plane in reaction to SIA, and it also triggered purchases by Malaysia Airlines and Thai Airways. This domino effect has happened before when the B747 came into being, and assuming no outside competition from Boeing, has every possibility to occur again with the A380, I would think.
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Old May 1st, 2005, 11:43 AM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
We need hkskyline to post an article or something to get back on track.
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"My Settlement of Singapore continues to thrive most wonderfully - it is all and everything I could wish and, if no untimely fate awaits it, promises to become the Emporium and the pride of the East" - Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles, 10th September 1820
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Old May 1st, 2005, 12:08 PM   #546
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wow, the antonov AN225 is a real monter!!! it's only for cargo I heard.









and this strange cargo ircraft. I only saw this in magazines, but is it real in use actually [not only for tests]? (airbus) I heard nothing about it last time.
i don't like the shape and it is not as big as the antonov 225, but is is a very special plane. it looks really strange to me.




airbus380:

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Old May 1st, 2005, 12:33 PM   #547
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The Antonov 225 was built for the Soviet Space Shuttle program. Only one plane is in service. Antonov is working on a second one, which was stored before it was finished years ago. The 225 should be capable (theoretically, I don't know if it is really possible) of transporting a Boeing 747. The fuselage on its back, the wings and engines in the huge cargo bay inside. The size, and the weight of an empty Jumbo Jet is no problem at all!

The Airbus Super Transporter (also called 'Beluga') is developed from the A300 and is used for the transport of fuselage sections and other big parts for different types of Airbus planes to Toulouse. Several parts of Airbus planes are built somewhere else in Europe, and for the final assembly they have to be transported to Toulouse. NASA is also using these weird looking planes.

The Beluga replaced the Super Guppy, another weird looking Cargo plane. The various Guppies were modified from 1940's and 50's-vintage Boeing Model 377 and C-97 Stratocruiser airframes by Aero Spacelines Inc., which operated the aircraft for NASA.

However, these planes (and other famous giants like the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy, and the Antonov-124 Ruslan, and the turboprop powered Antonov-22 Antheus) are all special ones, built in limited numbers, while the A380 will be a mass produced one. Just like the 747. It is interesting to compare, (after all I asked for the comparison drawing!) but I think it is not a good idea to fill this topic with pictures of other planes though .
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Old May 1st, 2005, 12:39 PM   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggerD21
Does anybody know how many 747s (passenger version) are in service now? Just imagine these jets would be replaced by the A380 within the next ten years!
Hmm....but it can also be argued that the A380 is not exactly a good replacement for all current 747 operators, especially when the 777 is actually filling in that gap nicely. SIA, for example, is already replacing all her 747s with the 777s now, and the 380 can be said to be filling in a new market all by itself.
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Old May 1st, 2005, 01:32 PM   #549
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A380 TEST CAMPAIGN

The first A380 which has now taking to the air had successfully completed its ground tests. It has begun a flight test campaign of several hundred hours that will lead to final certification and will later be joined by four other development aircraft which will together perform more than 2,500 additional hours of flight tests.

After being assembled, the first A380 spent three months on the A380 final assembly line where all systems were fully tested: the hydraulic and electrical circuits and the landing gear systems, the aircraft flight controls. Next, came the pressure tests, in which air was pumped into the cabin to around 33 per cent above the maximum pressure normally allowed. Sensors placed on the aircraft structure were used to measure the stress resulting from the pressure loading and confirm predictions. This was followed by two weeks of tests on the fuel systems to check the correct operation of the system including the calibration of the fuel gauges and sealing. At the same time, the communication and radio navigation systems were tested. All of these systems have again been checked in preparation for the first flight.

While the ground tests were being carried out on the first A380, the Flight Test Department tested the A380 equipment installed on the development simulator which is linked to the “iron bird”, a test rig which simulates all the flight systems and controls and allows the responsiveness of all the aircraft’s moving parts (for example flaps, slats, landing gear) to be checked. The test pilots and flight test engineers have been flying a "virtual first flight campaign" using the actual A380 on-board computers and all the real cockpit systems. By the time they take the A380 up for the first time, they will have flown their first flight profiles in the simulator to become acquainted with the expected behaviour of the aircraft.

The second A380 to come off the assembly line was submitted to four weeks of ground vibration tests, which are essential for the first flight clearance and the certification programme. Around 900 "acceleration sensors" were installed on the aircraft's lifting surfaces, decks, engines, systems and landing gear. More than 20 "exciters" forced the structure to vibrate and enabled Airbus personnel to closely monitor the way that the structure responded to these tests.

The first A380 airframe to have been assembled is being used for the static tests that have also provided aircraft loading data for the flight test team before the first flight. These tests are performed in a purpose-built building next to the assembly line in Toulouse and establish how the wings and fuselage behave when subjected to both normal loads and exceptional loads such as those they may encounter in flight and in extremely rare circumstances.

The wings have already been successfully submitted to the maximum load the aircraft could ever experience in flight, known as limit load, and will undergo a year-long certification test programme looking at how the aircraft resists the greatest loads under a wide range of flight and rolling conditions. After certification, more tests will be run to load the aircraft fuselage and wings up to their breaking point, the so-called ultimate load test, to check that this occurs at the predicted load margin.

Another airframe will undergo fatigue tests in Dresden (Germany). The sections of this airframe were ferried by boat from Hamburg to the Dresden test centre where these tests will be performed from September 2005 onwards. The aircraft has been assembled in a new hangar at Dresden airport specially built by aeronautical testing specialists IABG and their partner IMA. It will undergo the most extensive fatigue tests ever carried out on a complete airframe.

The aim of these tests, which will last 26 months and represent some 47,500 flights, is to simulate the flight cycles i.e. the effects of pressurisation and depressurisation to which the aircraft will be subjected in service but over a much shorter period. To achieve this, the aircraft is installed on a test rig which comprises 1,800 tonnes of steel and is fitted with hydraulic and pneumatic loading facilities.
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Old May 1st, 2005, 03:05 PM   #550
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World's airports weigh risks of big new Airbus A380 could be hard to accommodate
Mark Landler
29 April 2005
International Herald Tribune

FRANKFURT:

Now that the Airbus A380 has taken to the skies on its first test flight, this giant bird needs someplace to land. For Airbus, selling its new super-jumbo jet to the world's airports has been only slightly less strenuous than selling it to the world's airlines.

Representatives of airports in Europe, the United States, and Asia gathered here on Thursday, energized after Wednesday's smooth flight, to discuss how they are getting ready for the A380, which is scheduled to go into service in the middle of next year with Singapore Airlines.

But as the talk at the conference drifted to the costly, unglamorous business of retrofitting gates and reinforcing taxiways, some of the excitement faded. The A380, people here acknowledge, is going to be more of a burden, and a risk, for airports than Airbus likes to suggest.

"What's going to happen when two of these planes arrive at the same time, and dump 1,000 people into immigration and baggage claim?" said John Kasarda, an expert on airports and a professor of business administration at the University of North Carolina.

Preparing for these teeming masses, and buttressing runways for a plane that can weigh 544,000 kilograms, or 1.2 million pounds, on takeoff, is not cheap. It will cost airports an average of $100 million to upgrade their facilities, according to industry studies. Heathrow in London is spending $857 million

For Heathrow, one of the world's most congested airports, that heavy investment might pay off. By 2016, analysts estimate, the A380 could account for one of every eight flights there. That would boost Heathrow's capacity by nearly 10 million people without adding a single new flight.

For airports that will attract only a handful of A380s, however, the arithmetic is more troubling. Atlanta, the world's busiest airport, has already said it does not plan to upgrade for the A380; Chicago's O'Hare has not yet decided. Among American airports, only John F. Kennedy in New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Miami have committed to the plane.

"What happens if you spend $100 million, and your only airline with an A380 flight cancels it?" said Kasarda, who led the conference. Airbus, based in Toulouse, France, brushed aside such worries. "Why would airports not want to adapt? They'll have to adapt," said Richard Carcaillet, the head of product marketing for the A380.

Few people are predicting that major airports will not be ready for the A380. But there may be some close calls. Los Angeles International Airport wants to move one of its four runways several feet to the south to create a taxiway wide enough to be used by A380s after they land. But the plans have been bogged down in litigation, and the authority that runs the airport is not sure it will finish construction before the first flight is expected there, in November 2006. It says it has a backup plan: obtaining approval from the Federal Aviation Administration for the plane to land on one of the other runways.

U.S. airports are also limited by tight budgets and aging facilities. At John F. Kennedy, for example, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is spending $130 million to accommodate the A380, reinforcing two bridges that carry planes over highways and shifting the width of a taxiway that rings the terminals. Fraport, the company that owns Frankfurt Airport and organized the conference, did not even mention costs in outlining its plan to build 12 A380 gates in two terminals. It is also building a cavernous maintenance building for Lufthansa's 15 super-jumbos. And Charles de Gaulle in Paris is building a satellite terminal with six A380 gates.

But the Europeans have nothing on the Gulf emirate of Dubai. Its airline, Emirates, ordered 43 A380s, the largest single order. Coming in 2008: a $4.1 billion terminal, with two concourses capable of handling 23 A380s.
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Old May 1st, 2005, 04:14 PM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
World's airports weigh risks of big new Airbus A380 could be hard to accommodate
Is it just me, or does that sentence not make any sense?
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Old May 1st, 2005, 07:03 PM   #552
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I'll add some more that I've heard. They're for Air France's A380s:

-Paris (CDG) to Montreal
-Paris (CDG) to New York (JFK)
-Paris (CDG) to Miami


Regarding a destination, I think the following airlines will fly their A380s into Johanesburg, South Africa (of course, these flights will probably be seasonal.):

-Air France: Paris (CDG) to Jo'burg
-Emirates: Dubai to Jo'burg
-Lufthansa: Frankfurt to Jo'burg
-Virgin Atlantic (LHR) to Jo'burg
-A very big maybe on Qantas flying from either Perth or Sydney (depending on range of A380) to Jo'burg

Last edited by Nick in Atlanta; May 1st, 2005 at 07:11 PM.
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Old May 1st, 2005, 07:30 PM   #553
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I've never seen a Mriya, but I have had an Antonov 124 "Rusla" parked on our company's runway accesible apron, when I worked right next to Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson airport. You could play football in the empty cargo area.

This piece of Soviet engineering had to have a full three minutes on the runway in order to power up to takeoff thrust. We had to get special permission from the Airport in advance for a takeoff slot, which was at dawn.

The plane took off with about three or four fire-fighting helicopters, with their rotors detached, for Spain, which was having massive forest fires. This was back in 1994 or 1995.
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 07:08 AM   #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito
However, these planes (and other famous giants like the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy, and the Antonov-124 Ruslan, and the turboprop powered Antonov-22 Antheus) are all special ones, built in limited numbers, while the A380 will be a mass produced one. Just like the 747. It is interesting to compare, (after all I asked for the comparison drawing!) but I think it is not a good idea to fill this topic with pictures of other planes though .
You are aware Lockheed built some 80 C-5A, 40 C-5B and a couple of C-5C Galaxies, right?
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 07:15 AM   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCarr
the real answer would be: why not?
If there isn't enough orders to compensate for the expense of designing and building the stretch. Didn't only two airlines inquire about the A80-900?
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 10:57 AM   #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
You are aware Lockheed built some 80 C-5A, 40 C-5B and a couple of C-5C Galaxies, right?
I know, I thought it were 110 Galaxies, but it's a little bit more...

There are some 70 Antonov-22's, and 60 Antonov-124's built. And in a few years two Antonov-225's.

If you compare these numbers to the 1350+ 747's built, and the fact that Airbus has forecast a market for approximately 1200+ airliners of 400 seats and above through to 2020, I call these numbers 'limited'.

It's funny to know that the succes story of the 747 started with the failure to secure a US Air Force contract for an ultra large strategic transport aircraft, which resulted in the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy...
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 12:37 PM   #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick in Atlanta
I'm pretty sure that Air France will keep their A380s flying from Paris(CDG). The most likely airline to fly the A380 into Amsterdam is Emirates from Dubai.
Emirates does not fly to Amsterdam at the moment, and there are at this moment no indications that they will.

Malaysia said (according to a dutch news article) that hey will be the first airline to operate a A380 service to Amsterdam as soon as they receive one of their a380's
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 01:50 PM   #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieP
Is it just me, or does that sentence not make any sense?
you are not alone...
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 05:52 PM   #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTM84
Emirates does not fly to Amsterdam at the moment, and there are at this moment no indications that they will.
WOW!! The fourth busiest airport in Europe (Amsterdam) is not served by Emirates. There must be more to this story, because that just defies logic!
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 06:44 PM   #560
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Most airports will see the A380 sooner than everyone thinks.
Any airport which has these three things will see a A380 in the next two or three years.
Currently has those airlines flying to it.
Can handle the A380.
...and the airlines currently uses the 747 at the same airport.

What you will see is that the A380 will replace the 747. Virgin Atlantic are going to replace there 747 on busy routes because the they say that for them the A380 will do two 747 flights. So instead of two flights daily to some where it will be cut down to one. I recon this is what most airlines will do.
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