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Old December 6th, 2014, 12:55 AM   #7021
diablo234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttula View Post
I got a wonder what expectations had you? I would hope the world largest passenger airplane flies like any other plane.
It's up to airline to do what it wants with the space. There are more room than on most other planes and the airline can choose what it does with it to a point. Some airlines have used that space for extra comfort, but you are not going to see that if you don't pay extra.

Other than that it is about moving the herd from point A to B, no matter the plane. Airlines are selling commodity product these days. Flying hasn't been a luxury product itself for a long time, so nothing is given free.
Well I have seen some photos of Emirates A380 economy cabin so I would have assumed it would be something to that caliber. Anyways this was the first time I have flown on an A380 aircraft so I can't really compare it with other airlines to compare and contrast (and maybe my expectations were too high after getting excited initially that I was flying on an A380). Anyways I can understand how the A380 is an engineering marvel from the airlines standpoint as it allows the airlines to fly less planes but carry more passengers, but from my point of view as a passenger it was no different than lets say flying on say a Boeing 747. That was the main point I was trying to get at.
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Old December 6th, 2014, 04:22 PM   #7022
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A380 Emirates A6-EOF by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr
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Old December 8th, 2014, 08:26 AM   #7023
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Qatar A380 >> The big bird of the world ^__^



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



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Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



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Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr



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Qatar Airbus A380 Flight by AirlineReporter.com, on Flickr

Enjoy !!
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Old December 8th, 2014, 10:34 AM   #7024
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[IMG]http://i62.************/hwwb6e.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=2553095

[IMG]http://i59.************/dwov4i.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=2553096
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Old December 8th, 2014, 06:51 PM   #7025
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A380 Etihad A6-APA by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr
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Old December 8th, 2014, 07:02 PM   #7026
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Such an ugly beautiful beast!
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Old December 8th, 2014, 07:04 PM   #7027
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This is the most beautiful airplanelivery I've ever seen.
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Old December 8th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #7028
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Old December 8th, 2014, 10:10 PM   #7029
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Somebody knows where is Etihad going to introduce first their A380's? I was hoping for Sydney?
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Old December 9th, 2014, 01:52 AM   #7030
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Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
Somebody knows where is Etihad going to introduce first their A380's? I was hoping for Sydney?
SYD & MEL both on the radar.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 03:33 AM   #7031
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Heathrow has already been confirmed as the launch route. Sydney and New York are confirmed when Etihad takes delivery of more A380s.
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Old December 11th, 2014, 01:28 AM   #7032
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Airbus Raises Prospect of Ditching A380 as Orders Vanish

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Airbus Group NV (AIR) raised the prospect of discontinuing its A380 superjumbo as soon as 2018, the first admission that it may have misjudged the market for the double-decker after failing to find a single airline buyer this year.

While Airbus will break even on the plane in 2015, 2016 and 2017, that outlook doesn’t hold for 2018, forcing the company to either offer new engines to make the A380 more attractive or discontinue the program, Chief Financial Officer Harald Wilhelm told investors at a meeting in London today.

His comments come as 2014 shapes up to be the first since the doubledecker entered service without a new airline customer. Its only buyer was a leasing company that has yet to line up a single carrier to take any of the 20 planes it ordered. The backlog remains as thin as it is fragile, highlighted by the cancellation of six jets ordered by Japan’s Skymark Airlines Inc. (9204), with two close to handover.

In its seventh year in operation, the aircraft that cost $25 billion to develop threatens to become a costly misstep. While popular with travelers, most carriers prefer smaller twin-jet models that are more fuel efficient and can access more airports. Emirates is the only stand-out sponsor, having ordered 140 units, while other airlines have either backed off or are struggling to fill the two decks of the jumbo.

Order Boom

“It’s an excellent plane but it only works for the right destinations,” said Air France-KLM (AF) Group Chief Executive Officer Alexandre de Juniac, who aims to cancel the last two of a dozen A380s on ordered and swap them for smaller models.

Chris Buckley, Airbus’s Executive Vice President, Europe, Asia and Pacific, said the company has been “at fault” in the way it marketed the aircraft, letting carriers customise the interiors in whatever way rather than pushing the high-density credentials of the double-decker.

The four-engine wide-body airliner is a rarity, after Airbus killed its A340. Boeing Co. (BA) said yesterday that it will cut back production of its 747 jumbo.

Emirates President Tim Clark is pushing Airbus to upgrade the A380’s engines to improve fuel efficiency, a move Airbus is resisting because the cost of doing so doesn’t match demand for the plane. Keeping the plane unchanged may mean running down the backlog and eventually shutting down production, now at just under 30 a year, analysts said.

‘A Pity’

“Airbus will be obliged to make a decision one way or the other in 2015,” said Yan Derocles, an analyst at Oddo Securities in Paris, who estimates an engine upgrade may cost Airbus 2 billion euros ($2.47 billion) because of work required on the wing.

An engine upgrade would take about four years, according to Derocles. The A380 now comes with a choice of engines either by Rolls-Royce Holdings Plc (RR/) or a joint venture between General Electric Co. (GE) and United Technologies Corp.’s Pratt & Whitney.

The A380’s lackluster demand contrasts with a boom in orders for other models. Airbus’s bestseller remains its A320 family of single-aisle jets, which it made even more popular by offering new engines. The same concept added momentum to the A330 wide-body jet.

The all-new A350, a twin-engine long-range wide-body plane made of advanced light-weigh materials, has almost 800 orders before its first handover.

‘A Pity’

Airbus has won orders for 318 of the jumbos. That’s a fraction of the 1,200 it thought airlines needed in that size category when it started marketing in 2000. Emirates accounts for 40 percent of the order book, while airlines including Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd., Hong Kong Aviation and Air Austral are increasingly unlikely to ever take their planes.

Japan and China, originally seen by Airbus as key markets for the A380, have been disappointments, with only one Chinese airline taking 5 units. Boeing’s 747-8i, the only rival, has fared even worse, winning 51 orders from four airlines.

“It’s a pity,” Clark, the Emirates president, said of the A380 “It’s a very big cash generator for us. I just open the doors and the people come.”

Emirates has been successful with its fleet of A380s because the airline uses its Dubai hub as a central point from where to connect major routes around the globe with just one stop. The A380 is also popular on capacity-restricted airports such as London Heathrow, while many smaller airfields lack the infrastructure to accommodate the plane.

Richard Aboulafia, vice president at the Teal Group and longtime critic of the plane, said the new large twin-engine planes coming to the market will be the death of the A380.

“I don’t think it lasts more than a few years into the next decade,” he said of the A380. “The quicker they let go, the quicker they can devote themselves to marketing efforts on other products.”
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Old December 11th, 2014, 03:20 AM   #7033
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Old December 11th, 2014, 08:58 AM   #7034
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Yes, don't think the A380 really has a future.

Better use the resources for development of smaller supersonic airliners.
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Old December 11th, 2014, 09:31 AM   #7035
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A380 came at an awkward time. A huge plane using ancient technology and overweight wngs. Also, the cost the develop an airliner is just ridiculous. It must be approaching $30 billion now.

With that in mind, if a plane can't sell a 1000 within 10 to 15 years, it's basically dead on arrival.

Unless a revolution happens and companies can design a new plane within $4-5 billion, we won't be seeing planes that cater to small niches. I mean Airbus isn't even sure they can recoup the cost to simply upgrade the A380.

Another issue is how long it takes to develop a plane. IIRC, the 777 went from launch to EIS in three years, designed using pen and paper (last plane that wasn't completely designed on computers), and is still in a class of its own.

Now even a variant takes 5 to 6 years and a new plane takes 8 years to develop. And that's with computers.
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Old December 11th, 2014, 04:33 PM   #7036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
Better use the resources for development of smaller supersonic airliners.
Unless they invent a way to dramatically lessen the sonic boom we won't be seeing any commercial supersonic airliners anytime soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj
Also, the cost the develop an airliner is just ridiculous. It must be approaching $30 billion now.

With that in mind, if a plane can't sell a 1000 within 10 to 15 years, it's basically dead on arrival.

Unless a revolution happens and companies can design a new plane within $4-5 billion, we won't be seeing planes that cater to small niches. I mean Airbus isn't even sure they can recoup the cost to simply upgrade the A380.

Another issue is how long it takes to develop a plane. IIRC, the 777 went from launch to EIS in three years, designed using pen and paper (last plane that wasn't completely designed on computers), and is still in a class of its own.

Now even a variant takes 5 to 6 years and a new plane takes 8 years to develop. And that's with computers.
Well, that's due to the fact that airlines demand fuel savings of approx. 25% for each new generation of planes compared to the previous generation. In the beginning it was relatively easy to achieve these savings by building an ever-increasing number of airplane parts with composite materials and thus reducing weight or by modifying the engines, but slowly it becomes very difficult to reduce the weight even further and increase the fuel efficiency thus driving up costs.
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Old December 11th, 2014, 04:57 PM   #7037
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Unless they invent a way to dramatically lessen the sonic boom we won't be seeing any commercial supersonic airliners anytime soon.




Well, that's due to the fact that airlines demand fuel savings of approx. 25% for each new generation of planes compared to the previous generation. In the beginning it was relatively easy to achieve these savings by building an ever-increasing number of airplane parts with composite materials and thus reducing weight or by modifying the engines, but slowly it becomes very difficult to reduce the weight even further and increase the fuel efficiency thus driving up costs.
Yeah, that's probably it - diminishing returns and the need to invent many new technologies for each generation for both the engine and the frame to eke out more.

I wonder if we'll see a drastically new shape once we hit the wall.
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Old December 11th, 2014, 10:31 PM   #7038
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Something nasty is brewing at Airbus after the comments about a possible termination of the A380 program by Airbus Group CFO Harald Wilhelm.

A day later the CEO of Airbus Commercial, Fabrice Bregier and the head of sales John Leahy had to do some serious damage control, claiming that the A380 program isn't going anywhere but forward. That a decision to launch the A380neo will be made next year with Emirates as one of the loudest promoters for the re-engined whale. Leahy also talked about how the production slots for the next 3 years are all sold out and that they are talking with 4 of the existing customers to place top-up orders. (earlier this year they talked about a new customers, they didn't mentioned this any more)
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...launch-a380neo

The president of Emirates, Tim Clark was also not amused by the comments by Harald Wilhelm.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/emirates-r...ce.html#VqDuEN


The strangest thing about all this comments is that they were made at the annual Airbus Investors Days, an occasion where you inform the investors, not confuse the investors. This resulted yesterday in stock prices tumbling down by 10%, today they dropped by another 5%. There are some more issues, the capitol costs of all the new projects be developed and roll out right now, the A320, a330 neo's and the A350. Airbus also announced another cut in production of the A330ceo, one of the biggest moneymaker for Airbus. You would have expected that all this news would have been communicated to the investors with a more orchestrated positive spin.

Now it's pretty clear that the A380 will only continue if the sales team headed by Leahy will book enough solid orders to keep the production going after 2017 when there are currently serious gaps in the production. The A380 production costs will break even next year, but after 2017 it might drop again in the red without any major new orders.

Someone at Airliners.net posted this graph of the production slots of the upcoming years. This is from the Ascend database.


(the red numbers are uncertain deliveries)


It already shows some gaps in 2017, especially with uncertain slots for Amedeo. They haven't announced any customer yet for the 20 A380s they have on order. Airbus would already have some problems earlier if Emirates wouldn't have saved the day by accelerating their delivery schedule.

If Airbus is able to sell enough A380 in the next couple of year then the program is safe with with the A380neo likely to be launched. If not it will indeed be the end of the program. All this confusion from this investors days won't help the sales team though. Will airlines still buy the A380 if the program is in jeopardy? The airlines that are still committed will also be able to negotiate serious discounts. With cash flow being a problem for Airbus from 2016 discounts for the A380 are also not the way to make the program profitable.
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Old December 12th, 2014, 03:19 AM   #7039
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Quote:
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Unless they invent a way to dramatically lessen the sonic boom we won't be seeing any commercial supersonic airliners anytime soon.
Over ocean that wouldn't be a problem.
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Old December 12th, 2014, 07:04 AM   #7040
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Airbus Pledges New Engines and Stretch ‘One Day’ for Ailing A380

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Airbus Group NV (AIR) sought to dispel concern that it may ditch the flagship A380, saying it expects to go ahead with plans to give the superjumbo more efficient engines or even build an ultra-high-capacity stretch version.

Fabrice Bregier, who leads the company’s airliner unit, told investors that upgrades of the A380 are just a matter of time, a day after the parent group’s finance chief raised the prospect of discontinuing the plane as soon as 2018.

While Airbus needs to convince potential customers that the upside to the double-decker outweighs its challenges and must make a sound business case for any enhancements, development of a re-engined version as well as a stretch variant will happen “one day,” Bregier said during the briefing in London, asking “where is the problem with the A380?”

Airbus has been struggling to generate enthusiasm for the world’s biggest passenger plane, which has been in service for less than a decade and has so far failed to win a new airline customer this year. Bregier said that the A380 program is under control and will progress, though there is “no urgency.”

While Airbus will break even on the superjumbo in 2015, 2016 and 2017, that outlook doesn’t hold for 2018, forcing the company to either commit to upgrades or discontinue the program, Chief Financial Officer Harald Wilhelm said yesterday.

The A380 is meant to carry around 550 passengers though many airlines have configured it for 500 or fewer, leaving Airbus pushing them to consider denser, more profitable layout. The existing plane could carry about 850 passengers in a single class, while a stretch achieved by adding a new section to the fuselage could carry a maximum of about 1,000 people.

Airbus sales head and chief operating officer John Leahy told investors at the gathering that he met with Tim Clark, president of No. 1 A380 buyer Emirates, at the weekend in Dubai, and that they discussed a Neo variant for the A380.

Clark reiterated that he would add to the carrier’s 140 orders for the plane in the event of an engine upgrade, Leahy said, while arguing that the jet is already very efficient.

Leahy said that travel trends will develop in the A380s favor in coming years, with the development of 71 so-called mega-cities that without recourse to bigger planes would require a doubling in the number of total flights.

“This is a market that has to grow, by definition it has to grow,” Leahy said. “The A380 will dominate the market in years to come.”
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