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Old January 18th, 2005, 07:52 AM   #161
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I'm really surprised that the Japanese haven't bought the A380. If they made a short-haul version with 1000 seats they could used them on their domestic routes.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 07:55 AM   #162
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Old January 18th, 2005, 07:56 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfreako
I'm really surprised that the Japanese haven't bought the A380.
there's POLITICS involved in life, too

ya think???

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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:00 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by kony
yeah right ! but i never saw a 747 with a space shuttle ontop, wasn' it a russian Antonov instead ? (well even if i doubt the Us would take a russian aircraft for such a meaningfull transport)
Now you have. It's called the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA) and it it used to ferry the space shuttles across country for maintainence, or when they land at Edwards AFB in California due to bad weather in Florida. The two SCA are converted airliners and the first SCA has been flying since the late 70's, when it was used for landing tests for the shuttle prototype Enterprise. The Second SCA first flew in 1989, ferrying the shuttle Endeavour to Florida for its maiden space flight.





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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:01 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfreako
I'm really surprised that the Japanese haven't bought the A380. If they made a short-haul version with 1000 seats they could used them on their domestic routes.
Japanese favor Boeing's airplanes, they are the first customer to place an order for Boeing's new 7E7 planes (I think they bought quite many), so I don't think they will buy A380 at this time.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:06 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfreako
I'm really surprised that the Japanese haven't bought the A380. If they made a short-haul version with 1000 seats they could used them on their domestic routes.
scorpion is partly right, although the main reason is still because these Japanese airlines have business links (not always directly) with Boeing. Afterall, they become the earliest (and few) airlines to buy the 7E7 for a reason.

Meanwhile, I came to know, that using those huge planes, even the existing B747, to fly domestic and high-demand routes within Japan are not exactly economical, because although they do manage to fill the seats, the costs of operating that plane still undercuts the profits which would have been derived.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:12 AM   #167
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ok thanx STR for hose great pix ! wonderfull !! it's kinda unreal actually.

huaiwei, don't forget that A380 will use 20 % less fuel than the B747 for up to 50 % more ppassengers !!!

japan will buy AV380 one day very soon, that's for sure !!
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:22 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kony
ok thanx STR for hose great pix ! wonderfull !! it's kinda unreal actually.

huaiwei, don't forget that A380 will use 20 % less fuel than the B747 for up to 50 % more ppassengers !!!

japan will buy AV380 one day very soon, that's for sure !!
Hhhmm.....well, that depends till we get more info. How much fuel does these big planes guzzle during take off and landing? This part of the flight eats up the most fuel, and the more the plane needs for that, the less economical it is to fly short range.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:30 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huaiwei
Hhhmm.....well, that depends till we get more info. How much fuel does these big planes guzzle during take off and landing? This part of the flight eats up the most fuel, and the more the plane needs for that, the less economical it is to fly short range.
I have read it in the news release too, it says 20% less fuel Per passenger mile than the 747-400. Not 20% less Total Fuel, obviously a bigger plane needs more fuel, but airliners can make more money on A380 because fuel cost per passenger is lower.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:33 AM   #170
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yeah but face the truth...it is the most technogically advanced plane...i really don't see how the boeing 7E7 will do better than this plane respect to fuel usage per pessenger !!

if they want to carry the most passengers inside japan, with just one flight, then the AV380 is the best solution...i don't see how the take off of two B707 at the same time would use less fuel than the take off of one single AV380 , considering the Airbus will carry more passengers than those two B7E7 !(up to 800 pax)

concerning the B747 , it's even not competitive given it's old tecnology and fuel usage ! not to speak about environmental issues...
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:34 AM   #171
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yeah philip, that's right !
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:41 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip
I have read it in the news release too, it says 20% less fuel Per passenger mile than the 747-400. Not 20% less Total Fuel, obviously a bigger plane needs more fuel, but airliners can make more money on A380 because fuel cost per passenger is lower.
Hmm.....kinda wondering, but the passenger per mile thing obviously takes the average of total fuel consumed divided by distance, without giving us much info on the usage of fuel during take off?

It is probably unlikely, but there is still a likelihood for one plane to use alot more fuel for take offs and landings, while using less when cruising, and yet still ending up having a lower average cost. The problem is for such an aircraft, its cost advantage starts to decline the shorter the range.

Another issue for airlines to consider, especially when you are talking about a short domestic route, is flight frequency and timings. Flying one large plane vs several smaller planes would mean less flights per day, and this dosent always meets the expectations of passengers, nor the airline.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:47 AM   #173
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yes but this plane does not aim at replacing the smaller airplanes !

it's only the best solution for the overcrowded lines which are subjet to overbooking for instance...

and given that the tourism industry is this one type of industry that works on offer (the more offer the more demand), plus given that some countries like china have just begun to travel oversea, then you can bet that this is a very smart move from airbus to have conducted this great project !!

sorry boeing !
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Old January 18th, 2005, 08:49 AM   #174
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I wasent really saying its meant to replace smaller planes either right? In fact, I was saying it isnt neccesarily a right replacement despite being able to fly the same number of people in less trips!
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Old January 18th, 2005, 01:22 PM   #175
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SIA to install only 500 seats in Airbus superjet

18 Jan 05

S'pore carrier will be launch customer of A380, to be unveiled today

By VEN SREENIVASAN
IN TOULOUSE, FRANCE

SINGAPORE Airlines plans to install just 500 seats, instead of the full complement of 555 seats in a three-class configuration in the new Airbus A380, thus giving more space for passenger comfort.


SIA is one of 13 airlines around the world which has placed 139 firm orders for the megajet that will be 'revealed' for the first time to Europe's leaders and the world's media today.

Combining the latest technologies in material, systems and industrial processes and costing billions of euros to develop, the first A380 aircraft will take to the skies next year in the livery of the Singapore carrier, the A380's launch customer. SIA four years ago placed an US$8.6 billion firm order for 10 A380s and another 15 on option.

The A380's other big customers include Emirates, which has ordered 43, Lufthansa (15), Air France (10), Federal Express (10) and International Lease Finance Corp (10). The plane has a range of up to 15,000 km/8,000 nm and boasts 15-20 per cent lower seat-mile cost, making it ideal for long-haul routes such as London-Singapore and Sydney-Los Angeles.

SIA plans to put its first few planes on the London-Singapore-Sydney 'kangaroo route'.

The aircraft that will be unveiled at today's 'Reveal' ceremony at Toulouse's Blagnac airport, is one of four test-planes whose components were built in four European countries, France, Britain, Germany and Spain, the backers of the development of the new super jet. They will not be sold to customers. Instead, the A380 which SIA will take delivery of next year will be the fifth plane, which has yet to be built.

Once production begins, Airbus will build four A380s a month for delivery, but has the capacity to crank up production if demand picks up.

The A380 fits in with Airbus' forecast that passenger traffic will rise by 5 per cent per year over the next two decades, raising demand and utilisation of large aircraft to 3,400 flights a day, with about 70 per cent of them clustered around just 25 airports around the world, including Singapore and Sydney.

Meanwhile, airports around the world are bracing up for the much higher traffic of passengers which the A380s will disgorge each time they touch down.

San Francisco and Singapore airport authorities have said they are already prepared, having invested in higher capacity facilities, while others like New York's JFK, London's Heathrow and Sydney expect to be ready by next year.

Airbus, owned by the European consortium EADS, sold 370 planes last year, beating rival Boeing for the second year in a row to become the world's number one plane-maker.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 01:55 PM   #176
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New Airbus: size matters

A giant at 1.2 million pounds, 555 seats

BY LORE CROGHAN
DAILY NEWS BUSINESS WRITER

The Airbus A380
Its wings span the length of a football field - a double-decker giant that's the largest passenger airliner ever built. And it's headed our way - to Kennedy Airport, at least.

The Airbus A380 will be unveiled today in Toulouse, France. Heads of state, and some 5,000 other guests will celebrate the debut of a mammoth flying machine that weighs 1.2 million pounds when fully loaded for takeoff, and seats 555 people - at least.

"The scale factor will be jaw-dropping," said Robert Mann of airline industry consultant R.W. Mann Group. "It will be like walking into a stadium."

The new super-jumbo jet will take to the skies in June 2006, when Singapore Airlines starts flying it.

Its arrival will end the 35-year reign of the Boeing 747 as the largest passenger plane in the skies. The American manufacturer says it isn't going to design anything new to compete with the Airbus A380. Instead, it's at work on a mid-sized aircraft called the 7E7 Dreamliner.

The new Airbus is so big that only major airports will be able to handle takeoffs and landings.

Kennedy will be one of about a dozen U.S. facilities where it will put in an appearance - thanks to $179 million in spending that the Port Authority authorized last spring to widen its runways and make other improvements.

At LaGuardia, the piers that support the runways would buckle under the weight of an A380 - so it won't be showing up there. Newark is unlikely to see the big bird because none of the airlines that use the airport is planning to buy it.

Numerous foreign carriers have ordered the A380, from Air France to Qantas. No American passenger airlines have done so. They're strapped for cash - and the plane's list price is a hefty $280 million, versus the Boeing 747-400's price of $198 million to $227 million.

American delivery services FedEx and United Parcel Service have jumped on the A380 bandwagon and ordered the cargo-carrying version of the plane.

The A380 has an interior layout of two floors. Airbus suggests it be furnished with 555 seats divided into first, business and tourist classes. In all three sections, both the seats and the aisles would be wider than in other kinds of planes.

The manufacturer also envisions bars, restaurants and shops inside the mega-plane. In its early marketing efforts, Airbus talked about things like installing a gym for passengers, and a place to take in-flight showers.

But profit-conscious airlines are likely to skip the amenities, analysts cautioned - and install 800 or more seats per plane.

"The carriers have to figure out how to turn this great potential into a real money-making enterprise," said airline consultant Mann.

Airlines can't charge higher ticket prices for the privilege of riding on the new bird - that tactic won't fly with consumers, analysts said. And though Airbus has promised the A380 will be 15% cheaper to operate than the Boeing 747, that isn't enough of a cost break to enable carriers to discount A380s tickets, and market the planes as bargain rides.

The carriers also have some logistical problems to solve - like how to get people on and off the planes without mind-bending waits. They may need to use multiple jet bridges for a single plane, Mann said. And boarding lounges will need to be rebuilt. Otherwise, "they'll be as crowded as Penn Station," he said.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 01:56 PM   #177
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Air France-KLM Sets Its First A380 Flight Apr 07-Report

PARIS -(Dow Jones)- Air France-KLM (AKH) will make its inaugural flight with the A380 superjumbo jet in April 2007, with service from Paris to New York, Chairman Jean-Cyril Spinetta said Tuesday.

Speaking during a radio interview, Spinetta said Air France will take delivery of three Airbus A380's per year in 2007 and 2008, and four in 2009.

He said Air France may order more planes if demand is strong.

"We'll have to see how things are going in the different markets where we operate. For the moment, this aircraft seems perfectly adaptable to the North American routes ... and to Tokyo and Peking in Asia," Spinetta said.

Air France will fit its A380's with 538 seats in first, business and economy classes. Because the A380 is a wider plane and has more space on board than the Boeing 747, each class will have a so-called "pleasure area," the executive said.

Airbus (ABI.YY) is unveiling the A380 Tuesday at a ceremony in Toulouse. Its first delivery, to Singapore Airlines Ltd. (S55.SG), is scheduled for 2006.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 04:41 PM   #178
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Posted: 18 January 2005 2155 hrs

Airbus unveils its superjumbo, European leaders hail lead over US

TOULOUSE, France : Airbus unveiled its A380 superjumbo in a glitzy ceremony at which the leaders of France, Britain, Germany and Spain hailed Europe's victory over the United States as the new king of the commercial skies.

The huge new aircraft, which can carry up to 840 people on its two full decks, supersedes the ageing 747 by US rival Boeing as the biggest passenger aircraft ever made.

When it starts flying commercially early next year, it will become the flagship of many airline fleets and offer unprecedented amenities on long-haul services, including, in some cases, gyms, bedrooms and bars.

For the countries which backed the 10.7-billion-euro (14-billion-dollar) development cost, the plane also stands as a prominent symbol of European cooperation.

"Good old Europe has made this possible," German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder told a packed hall in Airbus's headquarters in Toulouse, southwest France.

That was a barely-veiled barb recalling the US dismissal of France, Germany and other EU states as "Old Europe" because of their opposition to the war on Iraq.

Noel Forgeard, the French head of Airbus, made similar hints in his presentation of the A380 during a spectacle marked by computer graphics, atmospheric theme music and swirling colours.

"In this great aircraft, there is a mixture of determination and of dreams, which is, and always has been, at the heart of the wealth and splendid complexity of our European culture," he said.

"The European states -- so easily accused of weakness -- backed this fantastic challenge 35 years ago and have believed in the A380," he said.

The hubris on display was reinforced by recent figures showing that, for the second year running, Airbus has outsold Boeing and now holds some 57 percent of the world market for passenger aircraft.

The company, a majority owned subsidiary of the listed European Aerospace and Defence Company (with 20 percent in the hands of Britain's BAE Systems), forecasts that the A380 will extend that lead.

Thirteen airlines have already placed firm orders for 139 of the planes. Airbus calculates that by 2008 it will reach the break-even point of 250 A380s sold, and from that point it will turn out 35 of the aircraft per year.

The catalogue price of the huge machine -- wingspan of 80 metres (262 feet), overall length of 73 metres (239 feet), height of 24 metres (79 feet) and maximum take-off weight of 560 tonnes -- is between 263 and 286 million dollars, though discounts are frequently applied.

French President Jacques Chirac called the project a "big success" and said: "We can, and we must, go further on this path of European construction so essential for growth and employment."

British Prime Minister Tony Blair said the plane was "the culmination of many years of hard work" and congratulated the workers across Europe who made it happen.

Airline executives at the presentation were superlative in their praise, even though the A380 has yet to undergo test flights scheduled for March or April.

Richard Branson, the head of Britain's Virgin Atlantic, said his airline would pamper passengers on the six A380s ordered by including gyms, beauty parlours, bars -- and even casinos and double beds.

"So alongside our casinos, you'll have at least two ways to get lucky on our flights," Branson joked.

The biggest buyer of the new plane is the Emirates airline, which has ordered 43 because, "the A380 will be the future of air travel," its chairman, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, said.

Airbus's success with the A380 has raised hackles at Boeing, which has had relatively little interest in its own new offering, a long-range mid-size plane called the 7E7 Dreamliner.

A bruising challenge and counter-challenge over state subsidies for Boeing and Airbus was headed to the World Trade Organisation until both sides decided to see if three months of negotiations could resolve the dispute.

- AFP
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Old January 18th, 2005, 04:47 PM   #179
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Airbus Says 1st A380 Is Lighter Than Target Weight

Jan. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's largest maker of commercial aircraft, said the first new 555-seat A380 airliner weighed in under target, meeting all performance guarantees and alleviating concern the model would be heavier than planned.

The first aircraft, unveiled today at a ceremony in Toulouse, France, weighs 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent less than a target of 245 tons when empty, Airbus Chief Operating Officer Gustav Humbert said in an interview.

``We can match all the performance guarantees we've made to airlines,'' said Humbert. ``I can really say we are on the safe side.''

Airbus is introducing the A380 to guard a lead over Chicago- based Boeing Co. in the $50 billion-a-year market for airliners seating more than 100. The model's 12 billion-euro ($16 billion) development cost is about 15 percent more than originally budgeted as the Toulouse-based planemaker struggled meet weight guarantees to airline customers and test-flight deadlines.

``In the competition with Boeing, Airbus has the upper hand,'' said Davide Sciannimonaco, head of Italian sales at Societe Generale's Paris-based asset-management unit, which has about $10 billion in assets. ``We can surely expect a counteroffensive from Boeing, maybe adjusting the price of its planes.''

Animated Figures

The planemaker displayed the A380 at an event featuring computer-generated and laser-outlined animated figures, live dancers and acrobats representing Airbus's four partner countries and graphics of the A380's design in a blue-lit auditorium set up in a hangar.

The aircraft was lit up after speeches by French President Jacques Chirac, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero and U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair.

The planemaker is designing the A380 to cost 15 percent less to operate than Boeing's 747-model plane, Humbert said, reiterating an earlier goal. The A380 has a list price of $280 million, compared with $198 million to $227 million for the 747- 400, the Boeing model's latest version.

The plane was physically weighed section by section on special scales, Humbert said. The plane as a whole will be weighed before the first test flight, scheduled for late March or early April, he said. Meeting the performance targets means Airbus isn't liable to pay penalties to the airlines.

``We had a problem with weight,'' and ``We took care of it'' by using different materials, Humbert said. ``We are certain that we won't have to pay any penalties'' to airlines because of overweight questions.

A380's Size

The double-decker A380 has a wingspan of 80 meters (262 feet), almost the length of an American football field. It's 73 meters long and will weigh as much as 569 tons when fully loaded for takeoff. It will have a range of 8,000 nautical miles (14,820 kilometers) compared with 7,600 nautical miles for the Boeing 747- 400. The first plane is scheduled to enter service in June 2006 with Singapore Airlines Ltd.

Forgeard said in July that the A380 was about 2 percent heavier than the weight target set when Airbus first decided to build the plane. Chief Commercial Officer John Leahy said on Jan. 12 that the plane was about 5 tons, or ``less than 1 percent,'' heavier than the target weight when full.

The new model gives Airbus a product line ranging from the 107-seat A318 airliner to an A380 charter-flight version able to seat 800 people.

Market Forecast

Airbus last month forecast that it will win as many as 700 contracts for the A380 in the next 20 years, out of a total market for 1,250 planes seating at least 400 passengers and 398 freighter versions. The planemaker expects the A380 will break even with 250 orders. Boeing's industrywide estimate for larger airliners, by contrast, is only one-third of Airbus's.

Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's third-biggest airline, will probably order more A380s than the 15 it already has on order, Chief Executive Officer Wolfgang Mayrhuber said.

``Lufthansa has never made only a single order for any type of aircraft,'' Mayrhuber said in an interview in Toulouse.

Richard Branson, Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd.'s owner, told journalists in Toulouse yesterday that his carrier is also likely to buy more A380s. The London-based carrier already has a contract for six of the planes.

Airbus's ``plan to sell 750 of the A380 over the life cycle of the plane is realistic,'' said Tim Albrecht, a fund manager at DWS Investment in Frankfurt.

``One can assume that airlines with big orders of more than 10 planes or those who have committed themselves to buying an A380 very early will get a discount of about 20 percent,'' Albrecht said. ``This would mean that the A380 will sell for about $220 million.''

Shares of European Aeronautic, Defense & Space Co., Airbus's 80 percent owner, fell as much as 65 cents, or 2.7 percent, to 23.05 euros and were down 2 percent at 23.23 euros as of 1:22 p.m. in Paris. Shares of BAE Systems Plc, Airbus's other owner, fell as much as 1.5 pence, or 0.6 percent, to 241.75 pence and were down 0.5 percent at 242 pence in London.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 04:58 PM   #180
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