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Old May 4th, 2011, 01:48 PM   #101
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I'm actually with Axel here. We all know the main reason why they all look the same (and let's be honest here - they do look the same!), it's down to cost. But it is also down to a lack of imagination and foresight, and in many cases a lack of understanding at board level of their own fans and the club itself.

The first couple of identikits can be excused, as back then they were purely cheap and bland, but still the first of their kind. The ones that followed and still follow to this day can not. Some of the examples above are more attractive, and there seems to be more of an effort on the continent to actually design the stadium, rather than slap it together from the tried and tested, even with the smaller stadiums.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 02:03 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthemod View Post
So basically, the stadiums you listed are unique because they have two tiers, but the aforementioned British medium sized stadiums aren't because they have one. Right...
You don't understand. just look:

leicester:



Derby:
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ian262/3477747242/


Southampton:

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ian262/1015608332/sizes/l/


they are surely comfortable no problem but the design of stadium should be iconic to distinguish cities. it's not the case. But i understand some people don't share my view
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Old May 4th, 2011, 02:43 PM   #103
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I really like the look of Pride Park, Leicester and Southampton. They are all neat looking, compact and I'm sure they have a great atmosphere, even when only half full. But I have to agree with Axel. They do look very similar, whereas the pictures he posted are all very different and have a bit of "character". When I think of the Baseball Ground, Filbert Street and the Dell, I think of decent medium sized grounds with one or two poxy stands here and there, but overall a fantastic advert for British football. They were all atmospheric and idiosyncratic....but above all they were different and evoked great emotions as a travelling supporter walking in through the turnstiles....because you wanted to see for yourself just what it was like being in them having seen them on the tv and imagined what it would be like to be there. These days, Stadium of Light, Pride Park, Walkers Stadium....just change the logos and the flags...no-one would know the difference. Football Stadiums are cathedrals...how about if Yorkminster, Salisbury and Westminster Abbey had the same basic design layout and overall 'feel' ? Axel isn't trying to denigrate Pride Park etc. all he is saying is that some of the inventiveness and distinctness is starting to fade from British football, which is a shame.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 07:11 PM   #104
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No Axel I do understand, I'm just saying how a bit of universality/similarity is expected in new builds, and that your point that the British builds with their single tiers are similar, but your french examples with two tiers are different, is pointless.

These new stadiums are all one tiered yes and share similar aspects, but each have distinguishing attributes that seperate them from each other, be that facade, roof, exterior, interior etc.

The ones you listed are by your logic all the same because they are all two tiered, of similar capacity and have a roof. But alas you are and have always been a bit of a troll on here so I fully expect a negating response littered with those oh so delightful smiley's of yours.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 08:12 PM   #105
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Keep it civil, folks.

I agree that the volume of stadiums in England that share this form and are minimalist is pretty high, but that's also a product of a building boom where clubs were maximizing return on expenses and using a design concept that has worked out well. If these venues grow then the clubs will surely invest in more dynamic additions because it will reflect on their global appeal and identity, but for clubs like MK Dons, Southampton and Leicester there was little need for extravegance. It's all about context.

To wit, take Grove's comment from 3 posts ago: "Football Stadiums are cathedrals."
a) Some of them are more like simple churches rather than cathedrals.
b) Ever notice how many grand Gothic cathedrals look alike? Notre Dame, Reims, Laon...

Like I said before, calling such venues bland isn't insulting and most of us would agree. I just didn't understand the idea of calling them soulless or implying they're bad for the game. If anything it's the volume of these bland but high-quality venues in England that is propping up the lower levels of the game both financially and attendance wise.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 08:28 PM   #106
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I'll go one further, courtesy of our friends at WorldStadiums.com.

Many would suggest Germany currently has the best collection of stadiums among top leagues, with lots of work going on even after the '06 World Cup. Most feature a variation of the 2-tier box theme, and while the roof stylings there are more dynamic than the English models presented here that's a design feature necessitated by the larger capacities and enabled by larger budgets. However, I can easily look at many of those German stadia and cite them for the same blandness that had been mentioned for Walkers, St. Mary's, etc.

Take a look at these samples. They're all fine venues, but apart from the larger capacity there's hardly anything to say they're more grand architecturally than these English single-tier venues. Same utilitarian facades, limited detailing, nary a specialty feature to be seen and the insides are as bland as they come. Same principles, just larger. Yet no one seems to be saying this is a problem for Germany...

Borussia Park
Veltins Arena
Imtech Arena
Commerzbank Arena
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Last edited by GunnerJacket; May 4th, 2011 at 08:34 PM.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 09:41 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelferis View Post
good but funny to notice how medium stadiums in England looks like each others (stadium of light,southampton, this one...)
Well but still theres small differences I find Middlesbrough different from Leicester.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
The rule is "Form follows function," and these venues do that very well and THAT'S why they look identical and are thus called soulless.
Youre the first whove said this and thats completely true. Big Mausoleas look all like Pyramids because they all builded big and up in the sky.

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Keep it civil, folks.

I agree that the volume of stadiums in England that share this form and are minimalist is pretty high, but that's also a product of a building boom where clubs were maximizing return on expenses and using a design concept that has worked out well. If these venues grow then the clubs will surely invest in more dynamic additions because it will reflect on their global appeal and identity, but for clubs like MK Dons, Southampton and Leicester there was little need for extravegance. It's all about context.

To wit, take Grove's comment from 3 posts ago: "Football Stadiums are cathedrals."
a) Some of them are more like simple churches rather than cathedrals.
b) Ever notice how many grand Gothic cathedrals look alike? Notre Dame, Reims, Laon...

Like I said before, calling such venues bland isn't insulting and most of us would agree. I just didn't understand the idea of calling them soulless or implying they're bad for the game. If anything it's the volume of these bland but high-quality venues in England that is propping up the lower levels of the game both financially and attendance wise.
Yup All English Cathedrals looks the same as French does though english and french look a bit different. French stadiums also look similar just different from the english

What people also forgets are each country has there own distinct stadium culture therefore each country look different but inside each country they all look similar.

Also as said earlier for me a ground as Riverside in Middlesbrough look very dull and boring in my eyes. Pride Park look dull too but are helped by a great black nuance in the seats plus the Font of the letters made by the seats are better balanced than usual.

Leicester look shiny and nice in my eyes, Coventry are quite distinctive but they have some black seated areas that just make is look messy a bit like Hamburgs red seats and different blue seats.

Cardiff might look ok inside but walls are so thin that they are looking thin.

See theres huge difference between the grounds.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 04:11 PM   #108
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I don't think it's the similarity between stadiums that's a problem (although it's be nice if stadiums weren't direct copies).

It's more the effect that a one tier stand has. It's just dull. It lacks focus. there's no contrast between anything in the stadium.

Take something like the Madejski stadium. It often crops up in discussions of bland stadiums that are just one tier all round. It's actually two-tiered on one side, but that side isn't seen on TV. The two tier side is more interesting. If both sides were two tiered, it'd probably get a lot less criticism.

Two (or more) tiers just break up the uniformity. Uniformity is only impressive when coupled with scale.

It's the differences and quirky bits that make a ground interesting. Without them, when everything is the same, it just all feels a little sterile.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 01:09 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
...
Take a look at these samples. They're all fine venues, but apart from the larger capacity there's hardly anything to say they're more grand architecturally than these English single-tier venues. Same utilitarian facades, limited detailing, nary a specialty feature to be seen and the insides are as bland as they come. Same principles, just larger. Yet no one seems to be saying this is a problem for Germany...

Borussia Park
Veltins Arena
Imtech Arena
Commerzbank Arena
That's probably because Germany has a fairly large variety of modern stadia.

Of course also in Germany many fans believe that all modern stadia look alike.
But in Germany the modern stadia do in fact vary fairly reasonably in architecture, size, interior, colour etc. Plus we have a number of fairly outstanding stadia, be it architecturally, technically, by size, atmosphere, history or whatever.

So despite cerrain simmilarities here and there and numerous cheap and basic uncreative architectural solutions, overall we do have a pretty great collection of modern or modernized stadia in the country and we hardly have any stadium twins within the country so a certain individuality is still maintained by these various aspects.

The examples you showed are surely not the best or most unique stadia, but you still won't find a "twin" of those within Germany.

As cheap as the stadium in Gladbach for example is, within Germany compared only to other german stadia, it somehow luckily still ends up being fairly "unique", exactly because unlike most other simmilarly sized two tier stadia it's exterior architecture is so very basic and cheap, plus the seats dark green colour is also unique which makes the interior also halfwhat easily recognizeable.

The simmilarities you'll find in german stadia are usually just of a very partial nature, like certain stadia sharing a simmilar roof construction or simmilar tiers, but you will hardly find stadia that share very many simmilarities.

Probably all that also has something to do with the relatively large number of different stadium architects and construction companies capable of planning and building a stadium, that we have here in Germany, which should surely also be an advantage in comparison to other countries and their stadium variety.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 12:17 PM   #110
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Many US stadiums have got open concourses at the upper tiers. Why?
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Old December 28th, 2011, 04:43 PM   #111
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Many US stadiums have got open concourses at the upper tiers. Why?
Because it gives a nice open feeling to the concourses, and gives a much better fan experience. It also gives you a few more seats in each section. It's not just the upper tiers, it's all tiers (except for suite levels, that would be impossible) Having been in several stadiums and arenas with open concourses, if I were a designer, I wouldn't design one without them ever again, it's such a huge improvement.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #112
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Thanks. Honestly i don't thnink that europeans will like it
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Old December 28th, 2011, 06:59 PM   #113
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Thanks. Honestly i don't thnink that europeans will like it
Why not? It's just the latest advancement, the Europeans will catch up to us eventually
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Old December 28th, 2011, 07:57 PM   #114
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Why not? It's just the latest advancement, the Europeans will catch up to us eventually
By all means, please visit Sankt Petersburg and tell the people at -20C that an open concourse will improve their fan experience
Apart from that a decent joke.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 09:25 PM   #115
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By all means, please visit Sankt Petersburg and tell the people at -20C that an open concourse will improve their fan experience
Apart from that a decent joke.
In the US, football stadiums (being a fall sport) in cold-weather climates (like Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc) usually have enclosed concourses as well. Baseball stadiums have open concourses because baseball is a summer sport; however, in hot climates, these are enclosed to enhance spectator comfort.

In short, the appropriateness of open concourses depends on the given location.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 09:45 PM   #116
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By all means, please visit Sankt Petersburg and tell the people at -20C that an open concourse will improve their fan experience
Apart from that a decent joke.
Yeah I'm sure they have a LOT of events going on when it's that cold

Be realistic
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Old December 28th, 2011, 09:51 PM   #117
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In the US, football stadiums (being a fall sport) in cold-weather climates (like Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc) usually have enclosed concourses as well. Baseball stadiums have open concourses because baseball is a summer sport; however, in hot climates, these are enclosed to enhance spectator comfort.

In short, the appropriateness of open concourses depends on the given location.
This is not true, most new football stadiums are built with open concourses regardless of location. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, much of Minnesota's new digs is open.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 10:32 PM   #118
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This is not true, most new football stadiums are built with open concourses regardless of location. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, much of Minnesota's new digs is open.
I see this in ALOT of newer stadiums. Reliant, Cowboys Stadium, Amon Carter Stadium (TCU), all now have open concourses. I haven't heard one single complaint about it.

Love it.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 10:34 PM   #119
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Thanks. Honestly i don't thnink that europeans will like it
Of course not.

They're the same people who ask why Americans don't have roofs over ALL our stadiums.

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Old December 28th, 2011, 11:32 PM   #120
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It's because the European and American game is so different in terms of fans. Us Europeans will go for some food and drink, watch the game without breaks for 45mins until half time then go and have some more food and drink before then watch the last 45 mins. American Football and Baseball is so different. It's a game with plenty of breaks to go and grab food, which means the last thing you want is to be at a food stall and miss the game, open concourses mean that isn't the case. Both games have to be put into context. But as a European NFL fan, I totally get the way it is done in America and Europe. It makes perfect sense in both.
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