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Old February 7th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #161
engineer.akash
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Angry

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Originally Posted by dis.agree View Post
it is 9000+ crore now? we started at 3800 and with every passing month, 1000 crore seems to be getting added.

in a few months we would know what part would have to be funded by government.
If you cant take positive developments happening in Bangalore then better leave the place,anyways ur not spending money on the projects here,Chennai is a better place for you.

Live let live,Mr dis.agree or watever ur name is.We don't want cribbers like you here.


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Old February 7th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by avinash2060 View Post
why shud i be irritated HSRL is the need of the day with 10,000 acre ITIR ,DEVANAHALLI BUSINESS PARK(330 acre), BOEING AERO SPACE SEZ(990 acres), MANIPAL UNIVERSITY(200 acre),LARGE TOWNSHIPS LIKE OZONE URBANA(162 ACRES) ,PRESTIGE (300 ACRES ),BIAL SEZ, MANTRI'S JAKKUR TOWNSHIP ,WIPRO SEZ, TCS SEZ ,NANDAGUDI SEZ, DODBALLAPUR APPAREL PARK,RACE COURSE ,EVEN INFOSYS FUTURE CAMPASUS ARE PLANNED HERE ,KARLEY'S SEZ ,ETA STARS 300 ACRES TOWNSHIP, MANYATA TECH PARK, INDIA'S FIRST FOUR SEASONS,BHARATHIYA GROUP(125 ACRE),EMBASSY GROUP(300 ACRES),KIRLOSKAR BUSSINESS PARK,BIAL AND THE LIST GOES ON DEVANAHALLI WILL BE HOME TO INDIA'S SUPER RICH THAT'S WHY 27 FIRMS OF GLOBAL REPUTATION HAD PLACED BID FOR THE PROJECT EVEN CENTRAL GOVERNMENT GAVE VGF FOR THIS PROJECT NOW NO QUESTION OF GOING BACK WE HAVE CROSSED ALL BUREAUCRATIC HURDLES FROM 2008 ,NOW BANGALORE SHUD BE HOME TO INDIA'S FIRST HSRL WITH HYDERABAD VIOLENCE DEVANHALLI AND BANGALORE ARE THE BIGGEST GAINERS ,THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT RELIANCE,TATA ,L&T AND OTHERS WUD HAVE BID FOR THIS WITHOUT SHOWING ENOUGH LIQUIDITY ,IF THEY DON'T SHOW LIQUIDITY THEIR PROFILES WUD NEVER HAVE BEEN SHORTLISTED ,FORGET THESE THOSE WHO SUPPORT METRO HERE IS THE PROBLEM WITH METRO
1> METRO CANNOT BE IMPLEMENTED UNDER PPP ACCORDING TO TOWN PLANNING ACT OF INDIA
2> COST OF METRO IS 220 CR/KM
3> METRO TO BE IMPLEMENTED SHOLD BE FROM TWO ROUTES ONE FROM YESHWNATHPUR AND OTHER FROM BYAPANAHALLI WHICH WOULD ADD UP TP MORE THAN 14000 CR WHICH MORE THAN HSRL
4> FOR METRO TO BE IMPLEMENTED WE SHOULD START FRM DPR WHICH WOULD TAKE 2 YR TO BE READY AND REQUEST HAS TO BE SENT TO CENTRAL GOVERNMENT FOR APPROVAL AND KARNATAKA SHOULD APPROACH SOME BANK FOR LOAN
5>METRO NEEDS MORE SPACE
INSTEAD OF THIS WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS TWO MORE HIGH SPEED CORRIDORS
1> FROM BYAPANNAHLLI TO HEBBAL UNDER PPP
2> FROM YESHWANTHPUR TO HEBBAL UNDER PPP
WHICH WOULD TAKE GOVERNMENT (SATE+CENTRAL) TOTAL INVESTMENT NOT MORE THAN 3000-4000 CR
All this firm are there ok, But HSRL is only for airport and not to these companies. it is exclusively for Airport travelers. that is where i have problem. Instead of that they can have dedicated train may it be HSRL, same infra sould also include rail running cattering to all area of northen side of bangalore.
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Old February 7th, 2010, 08:51 PM   #163
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Scam

Sorry guys i have to say this, I couldn't control after reading some parts of the thread.

I support every city in India and want to give unbiased opinion.

This whole project looks like a scam. Similar to reddy brothers(tourisim minster) scam in mining. Unfortunately this reddy something is a tourism minsiter and controls the state government. This project looks very fishy.


One more question.
Why aren't Delhi and Mumbai with very large airports and passenger handling not having High speed Rail.??? Data has shown that very large cities only have high speed rails.

I won't post again on this thread
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Old February 8th, 2010, 12:23 AM   #164
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airpo...edirected=true.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #165
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Guys, both those for the project and those against the project, as educated, well traveled and intelligent citizens, you will be doing a great favor to Bangalore, Karnataka and India by demanding the following at the very minimum:

a) Complete transparency on bidding terms, concessions granted, especially RE concessions without having to chase up for months using RTI/PIL route that too after damage is done.
b) Publish all financial info as early as possible. Publish all expectations in terms of features, facilities in advance so that all bidders and public know about it.
c) Proper valuation of land handed over to project if any, and include that in financials.
d) NO change of terms favoring bidder after winner announced, unless other bidders are also given chance to re-submit their bids after working in the change
e) Choose promoters with track record and experience, not shady parties with Rs.2 share capital, newly promoted entities vague names and unknown origins and benami shareholders.
f) Hold public hearings often where all affected/interested can participate and record the proceedings.

Not that any one of us demanding will make any difference, but small drops lead to flood.

It is good to be passionate about good things happening to the city - but let us not get taken for grand ride by crooks misusing that passion.

Last edited by chenmani; February 8th, 2010 at 03:22 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 03:45 AM   #166
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Comparison with HKG

Yajaman, re your comparison with HKG there are some key similarities and differences:

HKG has well defined CBD/commercial area which is primarily the norther strip of the HK island and southern part of Kowloon both of which are quite far from airport and most begin their journey there. Hardly anyone gets into / out of train at Tsing Yi. Bangalore is different - with so many developments happening north of BIAL, plus so many different CBDs and software areas, host of residential layouts nearer to Yelhanka etc., travel pattern is more complex. Made even more complex because getting to Majestic area from anywhere will take ages with traffic.

Actually IMHO a Narita express type system might suit Bangalore better (with feeders from Yokohama, Shinjuku, Ikebukuro etc. which merge @ Tokyo station to proceed to Narita)...

Given high cost of taxis and clean and safe public transport, many well to do take it every day. Practically all foreigners take Airport express. Budget tourists take buses. In India, taking public transport on expense account is considered below dignity that too when company pays for taxi. The BTS Vajra service does attract some foreigners and box-wallas but these are mostly backpacker type or students. Most well heeled go by chauffeured cars which also take multiple passengers. It has been reported this BIAS service is a money loser even with fares as high as Rs.125-140 which is almost what KSRTC VOLVO charges for Mysore-Madikeri route of 140km!!.

MTR makes huge profits - more than 60% from RE activities, rentals at stations. That too their exisiting subway network, very old and depreciated with capital grants, is profitable. The AE line is part of overall MTR system benefits from all this. It is not a standalone entity.

Of course, HKG has per capital incomes well over USD25000 and the fare is still only HK$100 or US$12 or so, cheaper if you buy return. Even then it had to offer discount of almost 50% during economic slump times (2003 etc).

As I mentioned earlier, even by train, AE is not monopoly. You can take Tung Chung line to a place quite close to airport and transfer by bus to save money. That line is quite fast too.

It seems the die is cast, so let us try and speak out to ensure some level of transparency and integrity in the process..

Last edited by chenmani; February 8th, 2010 at 04:19 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 04:40 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanware View Post
Thank you. I didn't know.

Delhi deserves this.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 06:26 AM   #168
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I just don't understand some people. When the airport opened many were cribbing about the distance from the city center , after that they could not digest the size and thought it was already overcrowded (which it was not) , then came the aerobridges , proposed expansion plans and what not.

And now when one of these defects is going to be rectified (distance) via HSRL , it's still pinching the people no end.

I ask , how the hell does it matter to you what the project costs and wether it's profitable or not , it's not like there's even the tax payers money involved , leave alone those armchair analysts happily squatting outsdie India and blabbering thier good for nothing "opinions".

From a public perspective all that matters is the HRSL is 1st grade and efficiant system which does what it is designed to do.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 07:04 AM   #169
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Dissent is fashionable ... Other than the viabilty gap funding there really is nothing the taxpayer is going to be burdened with. I'm not sure people understand that very basic concept.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 07:45 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanware View Post
Dissent is fashionable ... Other than the viabilty gap funding there really is nothing the taxpayer is going to be burdened with. I'm not sure people understand that very basic concept.
Yes..absolutely right...Other than the viabilty gap funding there really is nothing the taxpayer is going to be burdened with....and that is only rumoured to be Rs.3-4000 crore...perhaps end up twice that when it is all done with ...nothing really...too small to be bothered with.

Moreover, we are only paying 35% IT, another 30% on Excise and ST, running 10% budget deficit and live in a state that has no electricity, roads or proper schools in most parts...its okay...no problem, they are used to it...

Last edited by chenmani; February 8th, 2010 at 07:53 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 07:49 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by zenith_suv View Post
I ask , how the hell does it matter to you what the project costs and wether it's profitable or not , it's not like there's even the tax payers money involved ,
I suppose you are planning to write a cheque for the VGF and the cost of land?

Quote:
From a public perspective all that matters is the HRSL is 1st grade and efficiant system which does what it is designed to do.
..ahem..wouldn't it be a better idea to wait for it to be operational before dishing out certificates of good conduct and efficiency..just a small suggestion..

Last edited by chenmani; February 8th, 2010 at 07:57 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 08:04 AM   #172
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BANGALORE PAYS HIGHEST TAX IN INDIA AFTER MUMBAI IF MUMBAI GOT SEA LINK SHOULD WE GET @ LEAST HIGH SPEED RAIL LINK DON'T COMPARE REST OF KARNATKA WITH BANGALORE EVERY STATE HAS POVERTY IF WE KEEP SHOWING THAT NO INVESTOR COMES FORWARD TO INVEST
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Old February 8th, 2010, 08:08 AM   #173
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BANGALORE PAYS HIGHEST INCOME Taxes IN INDIA AFTER MUMBAI IF MUMBAI can get SEA LINK at least Shouldn't WE GET HIGH SPEED RAIL LINK DON'T COMPARE REST OF KARNATKA WITH BANGALORE EVERY STATE HAS POVERTY IF WE KEEP SHOWING THAT NO INVESTOR COMES FORWARD TO INVEST

Last edited by avinash2060; February 8th, 2010 at 02:29 PM.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 08:17 AM   #174
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Avinash, I think I see where you are coming from..trying to retain some of the Bangalore tax to fund Bang. infra. Not a bad idea at all. As long as VGF is reasonable and fixed I have no issues provided selection is transparent.

But let us also remember the story of Dubai, Greece etc., it is NOT impossible for countries to go bankrupt on reckless spending, for savings to be wiped out, for currencies to be not worth the paper it is printed on and for social riots and other problems to break out if investment in hundreds of thousands of crores get pumped into 50sqkm of a state that is otherwise a ocean of poverty...there are 12 hour power cuts outside Bangalore practically year round..I am running on inverter as I type this.

Anyway, let this project go ahead let us play our roles as good citizens by keeping tab on negative trends such as corruption, lack of transparency etc.

Investors will get a lot more positive impression about Bangalore if they dont pay US$300 for hotel rooms, if land is not costlier than anywhere in SE Asia, if death of some movie actor brings the whole city to standstill or if Cauvery dispute, language riots and other issues create periodic chaos and so on...they are not asking for bullet trains.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 08:45 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by chenmani View Post
But let us also remember the story of Dubai, Greece etc., it is NOT impossible for countries to go bankrupt on reckless spending,
I agree with the fiscal prudence part but the rest of it is hyperbole. I dont believe HSRL will lead to total ruin of the state economy, or any such extreme hypothesis. This fear mongering is uncalled for.

Is it a luxury that we can live without, Yes. Is it something we cannot afford considering the state of our economy, No, Our economy has never been stronger and you wont get a better time for financing and building infrastructure. Over the long term is it a capital investment that will generate more returns, Absolutely, with metro & HSRL the CBD will turn from a shanty town it currently is, to a higher density real downtown. The airline industry is going to be the real beneficiary which is in doldrums with such low overall traffic to support such high cost industry. This is also a differentiator for BLR as there is stiff competition from CHN & HYD airports and IR cannibalising the traffic already.

I would love to see more passenger railway investment to increase the BIA catchment area. The HSRL should be extendable on both ends at some point in the future to make this capital investment pay off in the long run.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 08:54 AM   #176
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This fear mongering is uncalled for.
Fear mongering...no. Why do these riots happen, why do people waste time stoning buses and burning them at the beck and call of goondas, vedikes and small time netas and movie stars? Because they have nothing to lose. Because they see all this growth meaning zilch to them. So by destroying it they lose nothing themselves.

All these jingos that want all these advanced stuff, are they ready to pay for it, if it is priced @ market and not subsidised by the state & taxpayer? They can make a start by patronising BIAS buses and not private taxis or personal cars...as I said these are running @ loss as of date.

I agree this one project will not kill the state or its finances, but who knows when they put us on a slippery slope and which straw broke the donkey's back?

Well, as I said the die is cast. Let us watch the developments..we are just arguing over something that has already been signed sealed and delivered...just dont know who to and for what..

Quote:
I would love to see more passenger railway investment to increase the BIA catchment area. The HSRL should be extendable on both ends at some point in the future to make this capital investment pay off in the long run.
Totally agree..it is the point-to-point ultra-luxury that rankles...as you ride the BIAS/taxi have you seen overcrowded buses heading in same direction, jammed with people like sardines? Dont they need relief too?

Last edited by chenmani; February 8th, 2010 at 09:10 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 10:06 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avinash2060 View Post
BANGALORE PAYS HIGHEST TAX IN INDIA AFTER MUMBAI IF MUMBAI GOT SEA LINK SHOULD WE GET @ LEAST HIGH SPEED RAIL LINK DON'T COMPARE REST OF KARNATKA WITH BANGALORE EVERY STATE HAS POVERTY IF WE KEEP SHOWING THAT NO INVESTOR COMES FORWARD TO INVEST
BWSL was funded by centre and partly by the GOM,Unlike HSRL which is a PPP.

So lets not waste our energy talking about scams and some useless pointless discussion on Tax payers money being used.

Bangalore is south India's capital it desrves wat Delhi,Mumbai deserved.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 10:13 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal_Peace View Post
Sorry guys i have to say this, I couldn't control after reading some parts of the thread.

I support every city in India and want to give unbiased opinion.

This whole project looks like a scam. Similar to reddy brothers(tourisim minster) scam in mining. Unfortunately this reddy something is a tourism minsiter and controls the state government. This project looks very fishy.
Go do some sort of investigation and save bangalore and tax payers money,instead of whining and polluting this thread, you stink btw.

Quote:
One more question.
Why aren't Delhi and Mumbai with very large airports and passenger handling not having High speed Rail.??? Data has shown that very large cities only have high speed rails.
Large cities??? After Delhi,Mumbai and kolkatta it is Bangalore go brush up ur Knowledge.

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I won't post again on this thread
You better not.

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Old February 8th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #179
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Thumbs up

INVESTORS ARE JITTERY ABOUT HYDERABAD .KOCHI,BANGALORE AND CHENNAI IN RACE TO CASH IN ON THE SORRY STATE OF AFFAIRS IN ANDHRA PRADESH. KARNATKA GOVERNMENT IS PLAYING SMART BY ACTING INVESTMENT FRIENDLY
ANYONE WHO SAW THE DPR WOULD NOT TALK LIKE CHENNAI MANI THE PROJECT IS ON SWISS MODEL ACCORDING TO WHICH IF THE INVESTOR WHO WINS THE BID GOES BANKRUPT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PROJECT HE CAN ROPE IN OTHER INVESTORS OR SECOND BIDDER DURING SELECTION PROCESS WOULD TAKE OVER IF BOTH DOES NOT HAPPEN FRESH GLOBAL TENDERS WOULD BE FLOATED SO WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF FRAUD HE HAS TO SHOW ENOUGH LIQUIDITY TO WIN THE BID IN THE FIRST PLACE
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Old February 8th, 2010, 12:43 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chenmani View Post
Avinash, I think I see where you are coming from..trying to retain some of the Bangalore tax to fund Bang. infra. Not a bad idea at all. As long as VGF is reasonable and fixed I have no issues provided selection is transparent.

But let us also remember the story of Dubai, Greece etc., it is NOT impossible for countries to go bankrupt on reckless spending, for savings to be wiped out, for currencies to be not worth the paper it is printed on and for social riots and other problems to break out if investment in hundreds of thousands of crores get pumped into 50sqkm of a state that is otherwise a ocean of poverty...there are 12 hour power cuts outside Bangalore practically year round..I am running on inverter as I type this.

Anyway, let this project go ahead let us play our roles as good citizens by keeping tab on negative trends such as corruption, lack of transparency etc.

Investors will get a lot more positive impression about Bangalore if they dont pay US$300 for hotel rooms, if land is not costlier than anywhere in SE Asia, if death of some movie actor brings the whole city to standstill or if Cauvery dispute, language riots and other issues create periodic chaos and so on...they are not asking for bullet trains.
WELL VGF IS 1000 CR THAT'S IT REST 8500CR FRM PRIVATE BIDDER AND BTW IF IT WAS NOT TRANSPARENT THERE WUD HAVE NOT BEEN RFQ AND OTHER PROCEDURES FOLLOWED IN GLOBAL TENDERING PROCESS
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