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Old March 11th, 2010, 02:53 AM   #21
geogregor
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Originally Posted by Dr.Clang View Post
I think Russia MUST develop Far-East to make multi polar country as USA and Canada where both costs have more or less equivalent cities - for example San-Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Vancouver in the west and New York, Philadelphia, Montreal, Toronto in the east. You may compare NY and LA but difference between Moscow and Vladivostok is very huge it's result of abnormal centralization in Russia. People go to Moscow to find job even from Saint-Petersburg, Yekaterinburg and these cities have population about 5 and 1.5 million people! I don't think every American or Canadian dream of moving to NY because one can't find remunerative job in SF, LA or Vancouver.
Vladivostok needs good roads, new buildings, industries, tourist infrastructure and so on. The city is situated near Japan, Korea, China - main economic centres today and of course it needs development. Bridges... why not?
But bridge to nowhere? Why not to improve connections with big Chinese cities instead? It would be access to huge market, possible boost for tourism etc.
But connecting empty island with with two villages via huge bridge is total waste of money. They tried to do something similar i Alaska, not far from Anchorage, but some sane minds prevailed.
Of course it is Russia's money, they can do what they want, but there are so much more needed improvements to Russian infrastructure.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 03:11 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
But bridge to nowhere? Why not to improve connections with big Chinese cities instead? It would be access to huge market, possible boost for tourism etc.
But connecting empty island with with two villages via huge bridge is total waste of money.
Of course it is Russia's money, they can do what they want, but there are so much more needed improvements to Russian infrastructure.
Yeah Russian infrastructure is poor but practically Russkiy island is one of the places to develop Vladivostok in future. There will be Far East federal university and new residential area also.

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They tried to do something similar i Alaska, not far from Anchorage, but some sane minds prevailed.
Do you mean bridge across Bering strait? It's fabulous and needless project for current economic situation.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 02:49 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dr.Clang View Post
Yeah Russian infrastructure is poor but practically Russkiy island is one of the places to develop Vladivostok in future. There will be Far East federal university and new residential area also.

Do you mean bridge across Bering strait? It's fabulous and needless project for current economic situation.
No not that one. It was much smaller bridge than that. Just outside Anchorage, with similar official justification like in Vladivostok, about developing new land outside the city and improving access. But it was about pork politics. The bridge was not really necessary.

Do you honestly believe that only space to develop around Vladivostok requires building horribly expensive bridge? Is there really no land available around the city otherwise? I seriously doubt it. Soviet cities are never densely build up. I'm sure there is a lot of spare land in the city itself. Or even if not, why not develop land on the mainland instead of island?

It is all about building something big to show of. Even if it is not needed.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #24
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Please show me that bridge on Wikimapia. I've heard alot about it, but nobody could show it.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 06:33 AM   #25
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Perhaps Sarah Palin will link this to Alaska's own bridge to nowhere. She supported not one, but two useless bridges, before pretending she opposed them during the 2008 election.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Clang View Post
I think Russia MUST develop Far-East to make multi polar country as USA and Canada where both costs have more or less equivalent cities - for example San-Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Vancouver in the west and New York, Philadelphia, Montreal, Toronto in the east. You may compare NY and LA but difference between Moscow and Vladivostok is very huge it's result of abnormal centralization in Russia. People go to Moscow to find job even from Saint-Petersburg, Yekaterinburg and these cities have population about 5 and 1.5 million people! I don't think every American or Canadian dream of moving to NY because one can't find remunerative job in SF, LA or Vancouver.
Vladivostok needs good roads, new buildings, industries, tourist infrastructure and so on. The city is situated near Japan, Korea, China - main economic centres today and of course it needs development. Bridges... why not?
You tell me how a bridge to an empty island will make Vladivostok more attractive to businesses. It doesn't go anywhere near Korea, China, Japan. Is all of Russia like Hong Kong, without any room to build new facilities? It's about making sure the construction mafia which is in bed with the government stays in business during a recession.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 03:33 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
Perhaps Sarah Palin will link this to Alaska's own bridge to nowhere. She supported not one, but two useless bridges, before pretending she opposed them during the 2008 election.



You tell me how a bridge to an empty island will make Vladivostok more attractive to businesses. It doesn't go anywhere near Korea, China, Japan. Is all of Russia like Hong Kong, without any room to build new facilities? It's about making sure the construction mafia which is in bed with the government stays in business during a recession.
First of all it's not empty there's residential area now and there will be federal university and new city district. Secondly people from Russkiy island waste too much time to go to Vladivostok and bridge will decide this question. Thirdly, you live in Toronto and no in Vladivostok. It' easy to judge living in advanced capitalist country with high living standards how to make life better in countries like Russia. But I think people from Russian Far East know what better for them. I'm not fan of Russian government but I think Vladivostok needs development it's beautiful place.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 09:36 PM   #27
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Vladivostok is very dense city in a mountains with a little free space leaved, so on Russky we can start from scratch

And Sarah is watching you, boy
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Old March 15th, 2010, 10:46 PM   #28
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Sounds good but most of the population lives on the west coast, that is going to be a expensive plane ticket for everyone.

25% of Las Vegas visitors are from California, I think it would be a better idea to create the Las Vegas of Russia in the west part of the country.

But if the goal is to attract tourist from China then that would be a good location.
I think the general idea is to make Vladivostok Russia's link to the Asian markets. Just accross the bay there is Korea, China and Japan with huge markets and lots of opportunities for trade.

Vladik is geographically close to a very big tourism market. I am sure that once the airport, hotels and other needed tourism infrastructure is built up as part of the APEC 2012 summit, then tourists will flock to see this European city in Asia.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #29
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I think the general idea is to make Vladivostok Russia's link to the Asian markets. Just accross the bay there is Korea, China and Japan with huge markets and lots of opportunities for trade.

Vladik is geographically close to a very big tourism market. I am sure that once the airport, hotels and other needed tourism infrastructure is built up as part of the APEC 2012 summit, then tourists will flock to see this European city in Asia.
Well, it depends what sort of tourist you think about. Most tourists need sun and warm weather. But let say Vladivostok becomes super popular destination as an "European" city. I still don't see how oversized bridge to nowhere would make it even more attractive. If Asian tourists come to see Europe I guess they want to see some historic part of town not wooded island with few houses.
Big bridges Chinese and Japanese tourist can see much closer to home.
But at the end it is your money guys. If you think the bridge is most needed piece of infrastructure in Vladivostok that's good for you as it clearly goes ahead.
Alaskans clearly didn't think they need oversized bridges.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 03:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Clang View Post
First of all it's not empty there's residential area now and there will be federal university and new city district. Secondly people from Russkiy island waste too much time to go to Vladivostok and bridge will decide this question. Thirdly, you live in Toronto and no in Vladivostok. It' easy to judge living in advanced capitalist country with high living standards how to make life better in countries like Russia. But I think people from Russian Far East know what better for them. I'm not fan of Russian government but I think Vladivostok needs development it's beautiful place.
First, it's the government which is deciding where to place new facilities in order to justify a new bridge. You don't plan in order to justify big-ticket items. This is just wasting money and boosting Putin's ego/keeping the mafiocracy in business.

Second and third, I've lived on islands where travelling to the big city meant wasting hours on a ferry, and occasionally people propose a bridge or tunnel. But even then such proposals are simply uneconomical. Is there nowhere in all of Russia with more pressing infrastructure needs than a bridge to a remote island? Does this bridge do anything to promote trade with surrounding countries?

But hey, it's all paid for by Siberian oil bubbling from the ground...
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Old March 16th, 2010, 10:07 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Well, it depends what sort of tourist you think about. Most tourists need sun and warm weather. But let say Vladivostok becomes super popular destination as an "European" city. I still don't see how oversized bridge to nowhere would make it even more attractive. If Asian tourists come to see Europe I guess they want to see some historic part of town not wooded island with few houses.
Big bridges Chinese and Japanese tourist can see much closer to home.
But at the end it is your money guys. If you think the bridge is most needed piece of infrastructure in Vladivostok that's good for you as it clearly goes ahead.
Alaskans clearly didn't think they need oversized bridges.
I registered only for you, coz' all yr's mssgs in this top - silly bosh
Have you ever been in Vladivostok? ok, it's difficult...have you ever been in Russia? I think u can not know abt Vladivostok or Russia, in particular regarding what is necessary for inhabitants of Vladivostok or what is not, if you have never been here. What will you say if I let discourse of abt London and his problems and his future buildings, if i know abt this city only, for example, that it's capital of GB and FC Chelsea is here? =)
One of Russian comic said "Well, let discuss lobsters taste with those who have never eaten them"

Absolutely, you have yr own opinion abt this....but...this bridge - it's big step for development of Vladivostok as center of tourists, business and etc. And I think that all a great constructions gave and are giving many pluses for development of city,region, country....

BTW, Vladivostok was out-of-bounds city till 90th, and his developing as international major city in the Far East of Russia was "frozen"....
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Old March 16th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #32
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I registered only for you, coz' all yr's mssgs in this top - silly bosh
Have you ever been in Vladivostok? ok, it's difficult...have you ever been in Russia? I think u can not know abt Vladivostok or Russia, in particular regarding what is necessary for inhabitants of Vladivostok or what is not, if you have never been here. What will you say if I let discourse of abt London and his problems and his future buildings, if i know abt this city only, for example, that it's capital of GB and FC Chelsea is here? =)
One of Russian comic said "Well, let discuss lobsters taste with those who have never eaten them"

Absolutely, you have yr own opinion abt this....but...this bridge - it's big step for development of Vladivostok as center of tourists, business and etc. And I think that all a great constructions gave and are giving many pluses for development of city,region, country....

BTW, Vladivostok was out-of-bounds city till 90th, and his developing as international major city in the Far East of Russia was "frozen"....
And now let's sing national anthem.
No I've never been in Vladivostok but it doesn't means I can't write on this forum.

As I said, it is your money guys. If you decide to build motorway to Kamchatka it is your decision. It's just my opinion that it is waste of money. I'm 99% sure there are more needed bridges and roads in Russia.
But of course it is great project from technical point of view. Looks like it is going to be impressivge bridge regardless of where it's build.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 08:43 PM   #33
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First of all it's not empty there's residential area now and there will be federal university and new city district. Secondly people from Russkiy island waste too much time to go to Vladivostok and bridge will decide this question. Thirdly, you live in Toronto and no in Vladivostok. It' easy to judge living in advanced capitalist country with high living standards how to make life better in countries like Russia. But I think people from Russian Far East know what better for them. I'm not fan of Russian government but I think Vladivostok needs development it's beautiful place.
+1
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Old March 17th, 2010, 10:22 AM   #34
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And now let's sing national anthem.
If you decide to build motorway to Kamchatka it is your decision.
I'm sure this project will remain on paper. Population of Kamchatka is about 350 thousands people and if to go by train or car from Petropavlovsk-Kamchatskiy to Moscow it will take probably 2 weeks. Alaska has railroad but it's not connected with main road of Canada and USA and it's used for tourism goals mainly. But Kamchatka needs improvement and development of domestic roads especially in the south and in the centre of peninsula with most favorable climate.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #35
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These pictures are from the official web site of the brige:





















They work all nights long! Good job!

Link
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Old March 19th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #36
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Very impressive progress
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Old March 19th, 2010, 10:42 PM   #37
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Pictures will be without text, because I don't know English as good, as it needs.










http://www.mostovik.ru/minisites/bosfor/history.php[/url]
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Old March 19th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #38
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http://www.infoflotforum.ru/lofivers...hp/t28943.html
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Old March 19th, 2010, 10:56 PM   #39
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One more picture (thx to Black_Diamond)



The first bridge of that sort in the Russian Far East, "in the middle of nowhere". Finally one million people living in the middle of nowhere will take chance to use 3 new bridges instead of motor boats. And if someone in Great Britain does not like it, he (or she) may fill free to jump down to the river from Westminster Bridge...
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Old March 19th, 2010, 11:09 PM   #40
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Some more pictures from the middle of nowhere, i.e. from Vladivostok city:















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