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Old December 18th, 2006, 09:50 PM   #181
Boeing!
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Emirates:Venice-Dubai

DUBAI, UAE, 18th December 2006 – Dubai-based Emirates Airline today announced it will launch non-stop services to the city of Venice, its third Italian destination after Milan and Rome, from 1st July 2007.

The service, initially five-times-a-week on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays, will increase two months later to a daily service from 1st September 2007. Emirates will operate an Airbus A330-200 on the route offering 27 Business class seats, and 251 in Economy; plus 13 tonnes of bellyhold space for cargo.

Emirates' Dubai-Venice flight will create a new non-stop connection that is expected to foster a greater flow of tourism and business traffic between one of the Middle East's fastest-developing leisure and business hubs, and the thriving commercial region of Veneto in northern Italy.

HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, Chairman and Chief Executive, Emirates Airline and Group said: “We are delighted to have the opportunity to expand our services to Italy and are pleased to offer a new direct link between Dubai and Venice.

"Venice is a popular tourism destination and an important gateway in northern Italy for commerce. Our new service will contribute to Italy’s many flourishing small and medium-sized businesses by providing increased access from Venice to other major cities around the globe via Dubai, and vice-versa. Our flights will also provide added capacity for the transportation of goods vital to Italian industries.”

He added: “We look forward to continue providing our Italian customers with excellent travel services, and to working with our industry partners to promote Venice around our global route network.”

Enrico Marchi, S.A.V.E. Venice Airport Chairman said: "Venice has long needed a non-stop connection to the Middle East, a region which is currently served only via European hubs. We are really pleased to welcome Emirates to Venice airport, and we believe the new service will satisfy the existing demand and generate even more traffic into Venice from the Middle and Far East."

Mr. Marchi added: "When new flights connecting Venice to North America were launched, we saw the number of passengers from this new source market increase five-fold, and we expect Emirates' new flight to Dubai to similarly boost traffic, particularly given Dubai's growing status as a transport hub."

Providing convenient connections to travellers flying Emirates from Africa, Asia and Australasia, flight EK135 is scheduled to depart Dubai at 09:45 hours, arriving in Venice at 14:15 hours on the same day. The return flight EK136 will leave Venice at 15:45 hours, arriving in Dubai at 23:35 hours that same evening.

Emirates Airline currently operates daily flights to Rome and Milan with wide-bodied Boeing 777 and Airbus 330-200 aircraft. One of the world’s fastest growing and most successful airlines, Emirates flies a modern fleet of 101 aircraft to 87 cities in 59 countries. In 2006, the airline introduced 11 new cities to its expanding global route network: Abidjan, Addis Ababa, Bangalore, Barcelona (cargo-only), Beijing, Hamburg, Kolkata, Lilongwe (cargo-only), Nagoya, Thiruvananthapuram and Tunis.

http://www.emirates.com/AboutEmirate...p?yr=2006&St=2

Last edited by Boeing!; December 18th, 2006 at 10:36 PM.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 09:52 PM   #182
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The Reason the landing fees is so high at pearson is beacause it is a cash cow for the Feds and they are sucking it dry. They are killing the Golden Goose.
The US airports are heavily subsidized by the Feds in US. So Pearson doesnt stand a chance.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 10:37 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
YYZ-ICN
AC never mentioned YYZ-ICN would be a seasonal service when the route was announced in July 2005. The press release indicated a non-stop service three times a week with no seasonal restrictions :
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...3213-0&Start=0

Air Canada Expands Service to Asia With The Inaugural of Non-Stop Toronto-Seoul Service
Builds Toronto Hub as Gateway to Asia

1 July 2005
Canada NewsWire

TORONTO, July 1 /CNW Telbec/ - With the departure today of flight AC065 en route to Seoul from Toronto, Air Canada inaugurates its first-ever non-stop service between eastern Canada and Korea. Air Canada will operate three times weekly non-stop service from Toronto complementing its daily non-stop flights from Vancouver to Seoul. With an elapsed time of 14 hours 15 minutes westbound and 12 hours 55 minutes eastbound, the non-stop flight will save travellers 3 hours 20 minutes compared to the Vancouver routing.

"With the inaugural today of Air Canada's non-stop service between Toronto and Seoul we continue to grow our international network linking Asia with Canada and the rest of the world, said Marc Rosenberg, "Vice President, Sales Product Distribution, at a ceremony today in Toronto to mark the inaugural flight. "Our growth in non-stop service between Toronto and Asia complements our extensive schedule of non-stop services from our main Asia gateway in Vancouver, and offers customers more flexibility and choice in their travel planning with convenient connections to points throughout Air Canada's global network."

With the addition of Toronto-Seoul non-stop service, Air Canada offers customers up to 13 non-stop flights per day in each direction between Canada and eight destinations in Asia. From its main hub in Toronto, the carrier also operates non-stop flights to Hong Kong, Tokyo, Beijing and Delhi, the only non- stop link between North America and India. From its Pacific Asian gateway in Vancouver, Air Canada serves Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya and Seoul with daily non-stop flights.

Air Canada will operate the new route using 286-seat A340-300 aircraft. With a 09:45 departure from Toronto on Wednesday, Friday and Sunday, arriving in Seoul at 13:00 the next day, flight AC065 is timed to offer convenient morning connections to and from points throughout Air Canada's extensive North American network, particularly in eastern Canada and the United States. The eastbound flight, AC066, leaves Seoul at 14:40 on Monday, Thursday and Saturday and arrives in Toronto at 14:35 the same day, providing maximum connecting options.

Montréal-based Air Canada provides scheduled and charter air transportation for passengers and cargo to more than 150 destinations on five continents. Canada's flag carrier is the 14th largest commercial airline in the world and serves more than 29 million customers annually. Air Canada is a founding member of Star Alliance providing the world's most comprehensive air transportation network.

Cathay Pacific's transpacific flights
Cathay has 2 HKG-JFK flights. 1 is a direct flight non-stop via a polar route on an A340, while another stops in Vancouver only using a 747. Passengers are allowed to fly the YVR-JFK segment, YVR-HKG, or JFK-HKG.

The Toronto route needs to make a refueling stop in Anchorage since the assigned aircraft cannot fly nonstop so far. The stopover used to be Vancouver when US security regulations made it impossible to stop in Alaska, but that has since changed and Anchorage is now the stopover once again.

Connecting to Asia
Although Vancouver has a smaller population than Toronto, more Asian carriers choose to fly there as their sole Canadian entry point since alliance partners will fly their passengers further, freeing up long-haul aircraft for more profitable routes. If the YYZ route is profitable, then airlines would have pushed their national governments to negotiate access rights (air service agreements) or launch the route already.

Demographics
Vancouver CMA 2001 Census Statistics
- Chinese 342,665
- South Asian 164,365
- Filipino - 57,025
- Korean 28,850
- Japanese 24,025

Toronto CMA 2001 Census Statistics
- Chinese 409,535
- South Asian 473,810
- Filipino - 133,675
- Korean 42,620
- Japanese 17,420

Relationships
A brief high-level search of the YVR schedules online revealed the following frequencies (not all inclusive) :
YVR-PEK (AC + CA) * Toronto only has AC service
YVR-PUD (AC + MU) * Toronto only has AC service
YVR-TPE (BR + AC + CI) * no service from Toronto
YVR-HKG (CX + CX + AC) * Toronto has one less daily flight
YVR-Manila (PR not daily service) * no service from Toronto
YVR-ICN (AC + SQ + KE) * Toronto only has KE service
YVR-Tokyo (AC + JL not daily service) * Toronto doesn't have JAL service
YVR-Osaka (AC) * no service from Toronto

A few anomalies
1. While Toronto's Japanese community is 73% the size of Vancouver's, Vancouver has one additional airline and one additional city connectivity.
2. While Toronto's Chinese community is larger than Vancouver's, services between Greater China and Vancouver are more frequent, and no mainland Chinese carriers fly to Toronto.
3. While Toronto's Filipino community is more than twice the size of Vancouver's, only Vancouver gets direct flights to the Philippines
4. While Toronto has a much larger Korean community than Vancouver, Toronto only gets 1 airline service while Vancouver has 3.

All these anomalies across several East Asian countries point to the success of the international airline alliances meant to funnel Asian traffic via Vancouver, then out to the rest of Canada via a domestic carrier. Given Toronto's market size and immigrant community, it is strange why many of the Asian carriers flying to Vancouver don't also fly to Toronto. I suspect it's more of a cost issue than air rights.




El Al to reduce Toronto flights due to fees
17 June 2006
National Post

Israeli airline El Al says it has decided to cut Toronto out of its North American expansion plans because of sky-high fees at Pearson International Airport, stirring fears that other foreign airlines may soon decide to follow suit.

El Al said yesterday that, as of July 23, it will reduce the number of flights it offers from Toronto to Tel Aviv to five a week from eight a week, including two flights that originate in Los Angeles.

The number of non-stop flights between Toronto and Tel Aviv will be reduced on Sept. 1 to three a week as El Al's Los Angeles to Tel Aviv through Toronto route is scheduled to be scrapped entirely.

"Our operational costs on this route were just too high," explained Stanley Morais, the Canadian general manager of El Al and an outspoken critic of the Greater Toronto Airport Authority (GTAA), which operates Pearson.


El Al, known for its intense security procedures, has been warning for over a year that it may drop or reduce service to Toronto if something is not done to reign in rising costs at the country's largest airport, which holds the dubious title of being the most expensive airport in the world to land a plane.

The airline is hoping to save about $2-million annually because of the changes. In part, that's because the airline was considering flying the Los Angeles to Tel Aviv route with a stop in Toronto with a larger Boeing 747 aircraft because of rising demand from U.S. travellers.

But, according to Mr. Morais, landing a Boeing 747 in Toronto costs about $13,490 plus another $3,754 in terminal fees. That's compared to the $6,433, plus another $2,150 in terminal fees, that El Al now pays to land a smaller Boeing 767 in Toronto.

The good news is that, with the absence of U.S. passengers on the remaining flights, the number of seats available between Toronto and Tel Aviv will increase, although there will be fewer flights a week to choose from.

El Al's move came one day after Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government introduced a bill that seeks to increase oversight of airport authorities and the way they set their fees.

For its part, the GTAA has said its high costs are mainly driven by Ottawa's airport rent scheme, a vestige of Ottawa's decision to spin off the country's airports to not-for-profit authorities in the early 1990s. It has promised to pass any savings from the federal government along to airlines and their passengers.

However, critics say excessive spending by airport authorities has also contributed to the problem, citing massive capital projects like the $4-billion redevelopment program currently underway at Pearson.

Fred Gaspar, the president of the Air Transport Association of Canada, said there is more than enough blame to go around, but stressed Ottawa and the airport authorities need to work together to bring down the cost of commercial aviation in this country.

If not, Canadians can expect to see more foreign airlines trimming their service to Toronto. "We may very well see more international airlines following suit," Mr. Gaspar said. "Everybody has their breaking point."

Traffic Growth
While there may be speculation of flight increases to YYZ in the future, the fact is, airlines are now complaining about landing charges, and when the IATA issues a few scathing reports out about the irrational fees at YYZ, then it should be a cause for concern. The fact that there is growth isn't a sign that everything is all right, because other airports may be growing even more at Toronto's expense.


Air executives attack high fees at Pearson
30 June 2006
The Toronto Star

Toronto's Pearson International Airport was singled out as "the world's most expensive airport" at an international conference in Montreal.

Air Canada president Montie Brewer said that operating out of Pearson affects the fares consumers in the GTA have to pay. "And I truly believe it stunts the potential growth of the economy in Toronto and Ontario."

Jim May, CEO of the Air Transport Association of America, said Pearson charges more than double the rate charged at New York's La Guardia airport. "That adds tens of millions of dollars to the cost structure of the airport without any discernible aviation benefit."
I agree that it was never reported that the YYZ-ICN route would be seasonal from the source that you've quoted, but if you noticed last year, the route wasn't operating in the winter and then picked up again in the summer of 2006. I can't imagine that Air Canada would try twice in a year and fail twice.

I'm also not disputing the fact that Toronto's landing fees are high and that Vancouver has more asian carriers serving it. My point to that was that traditionally, Vancouver made more sense for Far Eastern airlines to fly into because of it's closer proximity and lack of available super long-range aircraft.

Toronto's Asian community didn't really start to explode until Hong Kong was repossessed so historically Vancouver always had a higher Asian population. Combine that with my comments before about aircraft availability and range, and it makes perfect sense as to why Vancouver has more Asian carriers.

Again, my point is this: There are more and more airlines (including Asian carriers) attempting to fly to Toronto in the future than anywhere else in Canada and as much as the fees are, by avoiding the Toronto market, you're avoiding roughly 25% of Canada. Doesn't make a lick of sense.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 10:49 PM   #184
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Emirates services to Europe:

Milan,Italy
Rome,Italy
Venice,Italy
Zurich,Switzerland
Paris,France
Nice,France
London,UK
Birmingham,Uk
Manchester,UK
Glasgow,Uk
Hamburg,Gemany
Dusseldorf,Germany
Frankfurt,Germany
Munich,Germany
Vienna,Austria
Malta
Athens,Greece
Moscow,Russia
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Old December 18th, 2006, 10:49 PM   #185
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Just did a search and Jet Airways is set to begin flights to Toronto July 2007. Didn't get any details yet though.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 11:06 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boeing777 View Post
Emirates services to Europe:

Milan,Italy
Rome,Italy
Venice,Italy
Zurich,Switzerland
Paris,France
Nice,France
London,UK
Birmingham,Uk
Manchester,UK
Glasgow,Uk
Hamburg,Gemany
Dusseldorf,Germany
Frankfurt,Germany
Munich,Germany
Vienna,Austria
Malta
Athens,Greece
Moscow,Russia

and Larnaca, Cyprus
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Old December 19th, 2006, 01:40 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alik01 View Post
The Reason the landing fees is so high at pearson is beacause it is a cash cow for the Feds and they are sucking it dry. They are killing the Golden Goose.
The US airports are heavily subsidized by the Feds in US. So Pearson doesnt stand a chance.
And maybe part of the reason is because GTAA is spent a fortune building a gold-plated terminal?

I agree the Fed's airport rent policy is misguided. There is no value received for the money paid. But that doesn't disguise the fact that GTAA has spent massive amounts on its new terminal.
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Old December 19th, 2006, 01:56 AM   #188
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i think time will show that this was a sacrifice of the present to avoid future issues. By going ahead with this plan they will have taken care of their capital expenditures for a very long time and will meet future forecasts. By choosing this design they will also be able to expand further without considerable delays.

anyways this is offtopic. When does emirates post their 2007 routes?
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Old December 19th, 2006, 05:52 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by nitzomoe View Post
i think time will show that this was a sacrifice of the present to avoid future issues. By going ahead with this plan they will have taken care of their capital expenditures for a very long time and will meet future forecasts. By choosing this design they will also be able to expand further without considerable delays.

anyways this is offtopic. When does emirates post their 2007 routes?
Good point. We all went a little astray with the original thread. My understanding is that Emirates should be posting their routes in February. I did see that they just announced service to Venice starting next year. Even though Venice is beautiful it seems like an odd choice of cities for them. Just my opinion.
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Old December 19th, 2006, 12:05 PM   #190
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Still, we are waiting for destinations in Spain
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Old December 19th, 2006, 10:43 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boeing777 View Post
Emirates services to Europe:

Milan,Italy
Rome,Italy
Venice,Italy
Zurich,Switzerland
Paris,France
Nice,France
London,UK
Birmingham,Uk
Manchester,UK
Glasgow,Uk
Hamburg,Gemany
Dusseldorf,Germany
Frankfurt,Germany
Munich,Germany
Vienna,Austria
Malta
Athens,Greece
Moscow,Russia
Just for total interest, what aircraft and frequencies are used on the above routes?
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Old December 19th, 2006, 10:47 PM   #192
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doesnt emirates fly to amsterdam?
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Old December 20th, 2006, 03:19 AM   #193
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doesnt emirates fly to amsterdam?
They were suppose but cancelled those plans

At the moment what’s halting Emirates European expansion plan is the Australian government. Their whole plan is based around Australia & New Zealand, as these two countries will all become their new hubs. They want to introduce another flight to Brisbane and third flight to Sydney but it doesn’t seem the government wants to let them. Many passengers from EU are in transit to Australia and except Gulf Air they have no competition on these routes.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 08:12 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
I agree that it was never reported that the YYZ-ICN route would be seasonal from the source that you've quoted, but if you noticed last year, the route wasn't operating in the winter and then picked up again in the summer of 2006. I can't imagine that Air Canada would try twice in a year and fail twice.

I'm also not disputing the fact that Toronto's landing fees are high and that Vancouver has more asian carriers serving it. My point to that was that traditionally, Vancouver made more sense for Far Eastern airlines to fly into because of it's closer proximity and lack of available super long-range aircraft.

Toronto's Asian community didn't really start to explode until Hong Kong was repossessed so historically Vancouver always had a higher Asian population. Combine that with my comments before about aircraft availability and range, and it makes perfect sense as to why Vancouver has more Asian carriers.

Again, my point is this: There are more and more airlines (including Asian carriers) attempting to fly to Toronto in the future than anywhere else in Canada and as much as the fees are, by avoiding the Toronto market, you're avoiding roughly 25% of Canada. Doesn't make a lick of sense.
It's true that international airlines would prefer flying to Canada's largest city for economic reasons, but given Toronto's geographic location, airlines are likely going to bypass Toronto altogether if the route is not profitable. Here is why :

Asia
- lack of long-haul aircraft is a major barrier to nonstop services, hence Vancouver is likely the preferable entry point even though that market is small (same as what you said)

Europe
- airlines that can't turn a reasonable profit from a YYZ route may opt to use their alliance partners to bring passengers to another large airport, and then have them transfer (ie. New York JFK)
- the above scenario is quite bad if it does come true, since it will rob Canadians of choice in international travel, although technically the airline still has Canadian coverage through its alliance partners

For both Asia and Europe, the fact that there is a well-established carrier (AC) in the Star Alliance means that foreign carriers can bypass Canada altogether if the cost side runs wild. Canada is not a very large international market and the business and tourism potential may not be high enough to sustain regular losses. With the Americans so close (a 90-minute flight separates YYZ and JFK), foreign carriers may opt to do a connection and deploy their resources to more profitable routes.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 07:07 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlasgowMan View Post
Just for total interest, what aircraft and frequencies are used on the above routes?

Milan,Italy B777-300/A330 daily
Rome,Italy B777-300 daily
Venice,Italy B330 5 weekly (daily service from 1st September 2007)

I recall that the Italy-UAE bilateral is very restrictive hence Emirates inability to expand Milan MXP and Rome FCO to double daily as they desired.
For Emirates to be allowed to fly to Venice, would it mean that the bilateral agreement has been amended to cater for this?

Zurich,Switzerland A345/A330 2 daily
Paris,France A330 2 daily
Nice,France B777-300 3 weekly
London,UK B777/A330 4 daily
Birmingham,Uk B777/A330 2 daily
Manchester,UK B777 2 daily
Glasgow,Uk B777 daily
Hamburg,Gemany B777 daily
Dusseldorf,Germany B777 2 daily
Frankfurt,Germany A340 2 daily
Munich,Germany A330 2 daily
Vienna,Austria A330 daily
Malta A330 5 weekly
Athens,Greece A330 daily
Moscow,Russia A340 daily

Last edited by Boeing!; December 20th, 2006 at 07:13 PM.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 07:12 PM   #196
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Venice is the 18th destination in Europe, the 3rd in Italy and Emirates is not still serving countries like Netherlands, Belgium,Scandinavia or Spain.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 08:48 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
It's true that international airlines would prefer flying to Canada's largest city for economic reasons, but given Toronto's geographic location, airlines are likely going to bypass Toronto altogether if the route is not profitable. Here is why :

Asia
- lack of long-haul aircraft is a major barrier to nonstop services, hence Vancouver is likely the preferable entry point even though that market is small (same as what you said)

Europe
- airlines that can't turn a reasonable profit from a YYZ route may opt to use their alliance partners to bring passengers to another large airport, and then have them transfer (ie. New York JFK)
- the above scenario is quite bad if it does come true, since it will rob Canadians of choice in international travel, although technically the airline still has Canadian coverage through its alliance partners

For both Asia and Europe, the fact that there is a well-established carrier (AC) in the Star Alliance means that foreign carriers can bypass Canada altogether if the cost side runs wild. Canada is not a very large international market and the business and tourism potential may not be high enough to sustain regular losses. With the Americans so close (a 90-minute flight separates YYZ and JFK), foreign carriers may opt to do a connection and deploy their resources to more profitable routes.
I do agree with you on pretty much every point. Canada, unfortunately, is not a major player on the world stage for international tourism and business, relatively speaking of course. I still believe that the lack of open skies agreements between Canada and other countries is one of, if not, the single biggest road block to more airlines flying here, more so than profitability. I just haven't heard any concrete evidence from any airline that they have pulled out of Toronto because of fees or lack of revenue (even though some have complained about it. Air Canada just completely changed its tune and is now praising T1. You gotta remember, the media is in the entertainment business, not the airlines business and dramatic news sells.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 08:59 PM   #198
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From Wikipedia - Emirates Airlines to start Toronto service Oct '07. Keep your fingers crossed.
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Old December 21st, 2006, 04:02 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
I do agree with you on pretty much every point. Canada, unfortunately, is not a major player on the world stage for international tourism and business, relatively speaking of course. I still believe that the lack of open skies agreements between Canada and other countries is one of, if not, the single biggest road block to more airlines flying here, more so than profitability. I just haven't heard any concrete evidence from any airline that they have pulled out of Toronto because of fees or lack of revenue (even though some have complained about it. Air Canada just completely changed its tune and is now praising T1. You gotta remember, the media is in the entertainment business, not the airlines business and dramatic news sells.
I'm more concerned with the IATA's response to GTAA's fiscal management and rise in landing fees. Given the debt load, I doubt anything will change unless there is a major federal bailout. As the IATA represents pretty much the entire world's airlines, such scathing reports are not good to hear. While it is hard to gauge why airlines decide to fly or not to fly to YYZ and at what frequencies, it may not be possible to discern the exact outcome of how landing charges affect airlines. For example, El Al has been very vocal about the cost of flying to Toronto, yet other airlines may decide not to go with a planned expansion to YYZ and not publicize it.

AC's praise of T1's design is also coincided with their criticism of GTAA's management practices. The two things are not hypocritical. I can be using a very nice facility and be happy with it but still be angry at being overcharged.
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Old December 23rd, 2006, 03:14 AM   #200
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How come they serve four cities in Germany, but not Berlin?
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