daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Airports and Aviation

Airports and Aviation Airports | Photos and Videos



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 6th, 2016, 08:30 PM   #2461
Seljuk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 302
Likes (Received): 178

Changes eff 30th October to Australia and New Zealand

EK418/419 Dubai-Bangkok-Sydney-Christchurch 7/7 B77W -> EK412/413 Dubai-Sydney-Christchurch 7/7 A380

EK412/413 Dubai-Sydney-Auckland 7/7 A380 -> EK418/419 Dubai-Bangkok-Sydney-Auckland 7/7 A380
http://www.emirates.com/media-centre...urch-services#

Overview of flights to Australia/New Zealand

EK404/405 DXB-SIN-MEL 7/7 A380
EK406/407 DXB-MEL-AKL 7/7 A380
EK408/409 DXB-MEL 7/7 B77W
EK412/413 DXB-SYD-CHC 7/7 A380
EK414/415 DXB-SYD 7/7 A380
EK418/419 DXB-BKK-SYD-AKL 7/7 A380
EK420/421 DXB-PER 7/7 A380
EK424/425 DXB-PER 7/7 A380
EK432/433 DXB-SIN-BNE 7/7 B77W
EK434/435 DXB-BNE-AKL 7/7 A380
EK440/441 DXB-ADL 7/7 B77W
EK448/449 DXB-AKL 7/7 A380

+ Qantas flights with EK Code-Share

DXB-BKK will be 6 times a day with A380 + daily B77W next year.
__________________

patel2897 liked this post
Seljuk no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 7th, 2016, 07:46 PM   #2462
British Republic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seljuk View Post
So they are basically reducing their fleet to a 777-200LR/777-300/777-300ER/A380-800 fleet then? Now while I understand why they need so many 777-300s and A380s and that DXB it a highly congested airport*, does it really make sense to only have 10 777-200LRs for routes which do not have enough demand for either the 777-300s or A380s? Especially if they want to expand their route network to new destinations to feed their hub...

Now of course there is FlyDubai for those sorts of routes which are too small for the either the 777-300s or A380s but even so they only have 737-800s for that job. Hence why I feel that to fill the gap between the 737-800 and the 777-300, both airlines need to order planes which would allow them to serve routes which are too busy for a 737-800 but whose demand is also too small to justify multiple 777-300s. In other words EK need to other either the 777-200LR, the 787-10 or the A350-900 while FlyDubai needs to order the 737-900ER/9 as well as both the 787-8 and 787-9.

*Dubai International is now the world's 3rd busiest airport (more so than LHR) and they still have only 2 runways. Now I am aware that they are going to move everything to DWC (Will in happen in 2022 or 2027 though?) but still surely it makes sense to build a 3rd runway at DXB for the time being
British Republic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2016, 08:10 PM   #2463
Seljuk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 302
Likes (Received): 178

The last 11 B777-300 will leave the fleet soon so basically just A380 and B77W remaining with 10 B77L which will be used for (ultra) long-haul routes.
__________________

Equario liked this post
Seljuk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2016, 08:19 PM   #2464
British Republic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seljuk View Post
The last 11 B777-300 will leave the fleet soon so basically just A380 and B77W remaining with 10 B77L which will be used for (ultra) long-haul routes.
By 2017 or 2018 right? Likewise what are your thoughts about the "aeroplane" gap between the 737-800 and 777-300ER that Emirates and FlyDubai would be creating by the former withdrawing anything (apart from the 10 777-200LR) smaller than a 777-300ER?
British Republic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2016, 08:23 PM   #2465
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Republic View Post
In other words EK need to other either the 777-200LR, the 787-10 or the A350-900 while FlyDubai needs to order the 737-900ER/9 as well as both the 787-8 and 787-9.
Well they are expanding the terminal at DWC to handle nearer 20-30m pax (in time for the EXPO in 2019) and will probably send FlyDubai over there and leave DXB to EK and its codeshare partners only by 2019.

I see so many headwinds to stop the EK gallop though, Doha and Jeddah with spanking new 30m pax termini, Midfield in Abu Dhabi for another 30m pax and Etihad consolidating there along with their codeshares....and then IST with its single terminal 90m pax airport. All onstream or under construction to be in service by 2019.

They were supposed to select between 787-10 or the A350-900 last year and order some 10s of same, then they said it would be this year....and the rumour now is that they won't order them this year either. Maybe they won't need them at all.

They also just hired Christoph Mueller which is an odd choice for a full service airline given his last 2 jobs. Hmmmm
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2016, 09:33 PM   #2466
British Republic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Well they are expanding the terminal at DWC to handle nearer 20-30m pax (in time for the EXPO in 2019) and will probably send FlyDubai over there and leave DXB to EK and its codeshare partners only by 2019.
Considering how important FlyDubai is to EK as a partner, surely it would make better sense to keep the airline at DXB and move all the Non EK/FlyDubai/Qantas traffic to DWC, at least until the latter is big enough to take on EK's operation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
I see so many headwinds to stop the EK gallop though, Doha and Jeddah with spanking new 30m pax termini, Midfield in Abu Dhabi for another 30m pax and Etihad consolidating there along with their codeshares....and then IST with its single terminal 90m pax airport. All onstream or under construction to be in service by 2019.
With all that is happening in Turkey in the last few months, I am not too sure if the New Istanbul Airport will actually get completed, likewise new terminal or no new terminal I don't see Saudia as a rival to the likes of Emirates, Eithad and Qatar Airways any time soon, not least due cultural differences the Saudis have the rest of the world and even other Gulf States.

Thus the main rivals to Emirates remain Eithad and Qatar Airways, speaking of which do you see either of them ending up as big as EK is right now or perhaps even bigger in the future?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
They were supposed to select between 787-10 or the A350-900 last year and order some 10s of same, then they said it would be this year....and the rumour now is that they won't order them this year either. Maybe they won't need them at all.
Unless EK wants to shoot themsevles in the foot and avoid serving destinations which don't have enough demand for a 777-300ER, they are going to have to get either plane (unless they want Qatar and Eithad to win over those markets).
__________________

sponge_bob liked this post
British Republic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2016, 12:46 AM   #2467
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Republic View Post
Thus the main rivals to Emirates remain Eithad and Qatar Airways, speaking of which do you see either of them ending up as big as EK is right now or perhaps even bigger in the future?
Agreed, I don't see either of them approaching EK in size but perhaps collectively they might, in time. The other headwind is the continual purchases of wides by the Chinese fleets, which wides are well able to nibble into lucrative transit traffic. After all only 10-12m of EKs passengers actually originate or terminate in Dubai, they are mainly a transit operation where the business exists to fill their wides.
Quote:
Unless EK wants to shoot themsevles in the foot and avoid serving destinations which don't have enough demand for a 777-300ER, they are going to have to get either plane (unless they want Qatar and Eithad to win over those markets).
Well they admit they fully intend to so do but so far no bananas.

Their last A330 goes next month, they do need some flexibility. Maybe they will eventually order some A321s as well as some smaller wides.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2016, 03:14 PM   #2468
British Republic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Agreed, I don't see either of them approaching EK in size but perhaps collectively they might, in time.
I see, although it would still mean that both Qatar and Eithad would still (individually) fall behind Emirates it seems. Personally I don't really see the point of Eithad beyond satisfying the egos of the Al Nahyan family (Who rule Abu Dhabi and in turn are ultimately in charge of the UAE) over the rise of Emirates. In fact considering how strong the competition is for both Emirates and Eithad, they might as well merge to form one carrier, especially once DWC (which is more or less in between Abu Dhabi City and Dubai) is fully completed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
The other headwind is the continual purchases of wides by the Chinese fleets, which wides are well able to nibble into lucrative transit traffic.
After all only 10-12m of EKs passengers actually originate or terminate in Dubai, they are mainly a transit operation where the business exists to fill their wides.
When it comes to Europe-Oceania, Europe-South East Asia and East Asia-Africa, East Asia-Middle East and East Asia-South America traffic, I could see the Chinese Carriers (although they need to get their act together while the various state owned airlines need to be merged into one carrier) competing strongly against the likes of EK and others (in fact one might say they are already doing this for the Europe-Oceania already). However even when that day comes, the Chinese carriers are not going to be able to compete with the likes of EK over the Europe-South Asia, Americas-South Asia, South Asia-Africa, Europe-Africa, Americas-Middle East and Europe-Middle East Sectors, well not unless the Indian carriers become a serious competitor to the likes of EK, which they are not.

Reguardless, the Dubai and UAE Governments should be lobbying hard to obtain at least a similar level of access to the Chinese Aviation Market as they do to the Indian one. That in turn means that they should aim for 3-5 daily flights to Wuhan, Chengdu, Kunming, Xi'an, Chongqing, Hangzhou, Xiamen, Nanjing, Changsha, rmqi, Qingdao and Zhengzhou (At least).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Well they admit they fully intend to so do but so far no bananas.
I have heard rumors that EK want Airbus to develop the A380neo in return for an order of the A350, likewise I have also heard they are not happy with the current range of ther 787-10. That likely explains the delay alongside the fact they are not planning to obtain the planes until the early 2020s anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Their last A330 goes next month, they do need some flexibility. Maybe they will eventually order some A321s as well as some smaller wides.
If they are going to order the A321 (If on the other hand they want to order the 737-9 MAX, then they might as well let FlyDubai order it since they already operate the 737 while EK do not) then they might as well order at least some A321LR as well, which would allow them to serve virtually any destination in Europe (Even as far as Iceland), Africa (apart from the Cape Region of South Africa, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and Senegal), the former USSR, South Asia, China, Korea and South East Asia (Apart from Western Indonesia) and thus mean they could serve smaller destinations (than they do currently, especially those which FlyDubai does not yet serve) in all those regions at a profit.
British Republic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2016, 03:57 PM   #2469
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Republic View Post
If they are going to order the A321 (If on the other hand they want to order the 737-9 MAX, then they might as well let FlyDubai order it since they already operate the 737 while EK do not)
This is what has me wondering about their hiring Christoph.

1. He invented a Full Service wide/LCC narrow, hybrid airline in Aer Lingus.
2. If they need a turnaround specialist instead of an expansion specialist when Tim goes...probably in around 3 or 4 years, they now conveniently have one inhouse.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2016, 07:57 PM   #2470
EmiratesAirline380
Registered User
 
EmiratesAirline380's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver/Dubai
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Republic View Post

*Dubai International is now the world's 3rd busiest airport (more so than LHR) and they still have only 2 runways. Now I am aware that they are going to move everything to DWC (Will in happen in 2022 or 2027 though?) but still surely it makes sense to build a 3rd runway at DXB for the time being
No space for a third runway. DXB is built in the middle of the city and unless they expand the airport into Sharjah, it cannot have a third runway. Contrary to comments made by the LH CEO on the 3 sandpit hubs, DXB cannot just build new terminals and runways whenever EK want's. Even the existing layout of terminals is not ideal but they had to use the little space they had left.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post

They were supposed to select between 787-10 or the A350-900 last year and order some 10s of same, then they said it would be this year....and the rumour now is that they won't order them this year either. Maybe they won't need them at all.
There is no rush to get these aircraft since they won't be needed until 2025. They won't be used at DXB because there is no more space. The B787 or A350 will be part of EK's future fleet based at DWC. Having a simplified fleet is very good even though it makes the fleet inflexible and very susceptible to economics problems, disaster's etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Republic View Post
Considering how important FlyDubai is to EK as a partner, surely it would make better sense to keep the airline at DXB and move all the Non EK/FlyDubai/Qantas traffic to DWC, at least until the latter is big enough to take on EK's operation?


Unless EK wants to shoot themsevles in the foot and avoid serving destinations which don't have enough demand for a 777-300ER, they are going to have to get either plane (unless they want Qatar and Eithad to win over those markets).
FlyDubai uses too many slots at DXB. It handles 11.6% of total traffic but uses 22% of the landing slots. Besides, 75% of FZ's traffic is O&D so I think they can survive on their own without EK, but they might have to cut some routes.

EK will get those aircraft but there is nothing they can do until DWC opens.
__________________
EMIRATES AIRLINE

255 Aircraft - 150+ Destinations - 252 aircraft orders

ETIHAD AIRWAYS

124 Aircraft - 112 Destinations - 198 aircraft orders

sponge_bob liked this post

Last edited by EmiratesAirline380; September 8th, 2016 at 08:05 PM.
EmiratesAirline380 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2016, 09:15 PM   #2471
British Republic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmiratesAirline380 View Post
No space for a third runway. DXB is built in the middle of the city and unless they expand the airport into Sharjah, it cannot have a third runway. Contrary to comments made by the LH CEO on the 3 sandpit hubs, DXB cannot just build new terminals and runways whenever EK want's. Even the existing layout of terminals is not ideal but they had to use the little space they had left.
If you mean "avoiding knocking down residential areas" then you are correct in that there is indeed no space at DXB for a 3rd runway. However if one is to knock down the Al Twar 1 and ATwar 2 neighbourhoods (not sure how many residential properties there are in those areas though) north of Airport Free Zone then there is space for a 3rd runway.

The only real question about building this runway is if it really worth building a 3rd runway now considering that the airport is going to be shutting down by 2025 anyway (Thus you have 8 years worth of use on that runway), I feel there is a case due to the amount of time between now and 2025 but others might think differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmiratesAirline380 View Post
There is no rush to get these aircraft since they won't be needed until 2025. They won't be used at DXB because there is no more space. The B787 or A350 will be part of EK's future fleet based at DWC. Having a simplified fleet is very good even though it makes the fleet inflexible and very susceptible to economics problems, disaster's etc.
I am all in favour of having a simplified fleet (even adding a smaller plane would mean that EK would end up with only 3 different types of aircraft in their fleet) and I understand the capacity constraints at DXB. But still surely there are more than 10 routes in the EK network which don't have enough demand to justify daily 777-300ERs (and in many cases several flights a day)? Or are EK willing to risk having some flights (operated by the 777-300ERs) ending up being partly empty for the time being?

Likewise having the 777-300ER (bar the limited number of 777-200LRs) as the smallest aircraft in your fleet is going to make it harder to make new routes (routes which are likely to have less demand than most of EK's flights) profitable due to the too high levels of capacity a 777-300ER would offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmiratesAirline380 View Post
FlyDubai uses too many slots at DXB. It handles 11.6% of total traffic but uses 22% of the landing slots. Besides, 75% of FZ's traffic is O&D so I think they can survive on their own without EK, but they might have to cut some routes.
The thing is though, 25% is still a considerable number of passengers for the airline (although yes they can manage with passengers connecting to EK) and likewise there is also the impact it will have on Emirates themselves due to the loss of feed. Hence why I feel that the foreign carriers (minus Qantas) need to be moved to DWC (unless the completion date for the airport is brought forward) before Emirates and FlyDubai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmiratesAirline380 View Post
EK will get those aircraft but there is nothing they can do until DWC opens.
The thing is though, even after they start getting A350-900s or 787-10s, there will still be a capacity gap between that plane and FlyDubai's 737-800/8s, which might affect profitability (especially for routes which are too big for a A350-900 or 787-10 but too small for a 737-800/8). Hence why I suggested that FlyDubai or Emirates should order the 787-8 and 787-9 as well as either the 737-9 or the A321neo.
British Republic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2016, 10:47 PM   #2472
noir-dresses
bling bling
 
noir-dresses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto-Zagreb-Zrce-Dubai
Posts: 5,745
Likes (Received): 2346

You can't just make foreign airlines move to DWC if they don't want to, Griffith already mentioned that before. It's like Heathrow asking foreign airlines to leave, and fly to Gatwick.

Even with the latest DWC expansion most legacy carriers still won't fly there when it's finished, unless it's an additional flight. There is no metro connection yet, nor does the airport have gates. For now it's perfect for LCC's, and charter flights.

What's going to be interesting to see when EK get rid of their smaller wide bodies is launching new destinations. We were use to seeing the smaller wide bodies used for the launches, then over time seeing them upgrade to larger air frames when the routes proved themselves.

I was also thinking lately if over saturation really does stall demand because of Abu Dhabi, Doha, Istanbul, and soon to come mass Iranian services what's to say DWC won't get the green light for a mega hub build? FlyDubai moves to DWC with an airport that can handle 25 million pax, and DXB knocks down terminal two, and builds another huge concourse on that side for EK. With FZ gone EK would have enough slots left over for themselves. That would also save the Dubai government a good 50 billion USD. Time, and demand will tell, let's see what happens.
noir-dresses no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2016, 01:39 PM   #2473
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
You can't just make foreign airlines move to DWC if they don't want to, Griffith already mentioned that before. It's like Heathrow asking foreign airlines to leave, and fly to Gatwick.
My understanding is that the mega terminal in DWC, if and when built, will take over everything in DXB and DXB will close. But that was the plan before the oil crisis and Plan B seems to be to get everyone other than EK ( and EK Codeshare partners) into new terminalage in DWC in time for the Expo, this new terminalage is not the Mega Terminal but an expanded Terminal 1 which should be under contruction by now.

They already sent the freighters over to DWC. Not like there is no history.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2016, 02:30 PM   #2474
noir-dresses
bling bling
 
noir-dresses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto-Zagreb-Zrce-Dubai
Posts: 5,745
Likes (Received): 2346

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
My understanding is that the mega terminal in DWC, if and when built, will take over everything in DXB and DXB will close. But that was the plan before the oil crisis and Plan B seems to be to get everyone other than EK ( and EK Codeshare partners) into new terminalage in DWC in time for the Expo, this new terminalage is not the Mega Terminal but an expanded Terminal 1 which should be under contruction by now.

They already sent the freighters over to DWC. Not like there is no history.
First the business jets moved to DWC, then freighters, after that some LCC's, charter, plus additional flag carriers added some flights like Qatar. As of now DWC has a smaller terminal which can accomadate around 6-8 million pax, and the next stage is to expand it to 25/6 million pax, but still it wont have gates/air bridges which is perfect for LCC's.

Griffith mentioned before they offered great incentives for airlines to move from DXB to DWC, but no airlines were interested. Honestly it's barren out where DWC is, it will be more attractive once there is a metro link, where as DXB is in the heart of the city.

EK wont be moving to DWC before, nor during the EXPO simply because there will not be enough time to build the first phase of the mega hub. We are still waiting for the official launch, and construction of the airport, but nothing is happening for now.

The latest news is DXB could handle up to 120 million pax so if DWC goes ahead it needs to handle at least 160 for EK to make the switch. We also don't know for sure what will happen to DXB once a switch is made.
noir-dresses no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2016, 02:43 PM   #2475
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
The latest news is DXB could handle up to 120 million pax so if DWC goes ahead it needs to handle at least 160 for EK to make the switch. We also don't know for sure what will happen to DXB once a switch is made.
That's only recent news, up to last year the theoretical max was 100m and now they are saying 120m , I would assume DXB therefore becomes an all wide/heavy airport to do so safely while upping the tempo on the runways and that the narrows and lccs are all pegged of to DWC in 2019 where they can mix it with each other and maybe mediums.

DXB is fairly close to being an all heavy and superheavy airport already, one more push by 2019 and......
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2016, 05:43 PM   #2476
British Republic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
You can't just make foreign airlines move to DWC if they don't want to, Griffith already mentioned that before. It's like Heathrow asking foreign airlines to leave, and fly to Gatwick.
Absolutely, especially since Dubai operates an "Open Skies" policy for all their bilaterials which I assume include the right to serve either or both airports. What they can do however is "incentivize" (or rather bribe) other carriers to move into DWC and likewise I only suggest the Dubai Government do this once the next phase of DWC is done in 2019.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
Even with the latest DWC expansion most legacy carriers still won't fly there when it's finished, unless it's an additional flight. There is no metro connection yet, nor does the airport have gates. For now it's perfect for LCC's, and charter flights.
Are they planning to build the metro connections by 2019 (or rather the Blue and Purple Lines)? If not then perhaps Dubai Airports should operate frequent bus services (on dedicated bus lines) between the 2 airports and between DWC and the other neighbourhoods of Dubai. Would that be enough to convince the legacy carriers to move to DWC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
What's going to be interesting to see when EK get rid of their smaller wide bodies is launching new destinations. We were use to seeing the smaller wide bodies used for the launches, then over time seeing them upgrade to larger air frames when the routes proved themselves.
That is what I am wondering myself, considering how much potential demand there is for most of these possible new destinations, I feel that a 777-300ER would be too large to sustain multiple daily services (at least in the short run) and thus I feel that at the very least they need more 777-200LRs in the short-term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
I was also thinking lately if over saturation really does stall demand because of Abu Dhabi, Doha, Istanbul, and soon to come mass Iranian services what's to say DWC won't get the green light for a mega hub build? FlyDubai moves to DWC with an airport that can handle 25 million pax, and DXB knocks down terminal two, and builds another huge concourse on that side for EK. With FZ gone EK would have enough slots left over for themselves. That would also save the Dubai government a good 50 billion USD. Time, and demand will tell, let's see what happens.
Again I am not too sure about the prospect of IST (or rather New IST) and TK being a serious rival to Emirates thanks to the recent actions of the boneheaded regime. Likewise the Iranian Carriers* need to get their act together when it comes to both capacity and serivce (while I have no doubt that they can certainly do this, it would take at least a decade before they become a serious rival to EK) and in turn the Iranian Government needs to massive expand their airports (Most of all IKA, likewise THR needs to close to end the "split hub" problem which the likes of Iran Air would have if they want to establish a strong hub in Tehran).

Besides even if demand for Dubai's airports slows, there will still be a need for a 3-4 runway airport in Dubai** and as I have said before putting FlyDubai and Emirates at different airports is a bad idea. Likewise if both Eithad and Emirates are bleeding from having to compete with each other as well as Qatar and Iran Air then as a last resort they should join forces under the EK name and with a hub at DWC (which is rather closer to Abu Dhabi than DXB).

*Of which they are far too many, especially since many of them are owned or are linked to the state by various means.

**After all DXB already needs 3-4 even with current demand, especially when it comes to providing slack capacity to be able to deal with delays effectively.
British Republic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2016, 05:57 PM   #2477
British Republic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
My understanding is that the mega terminal in DWC, if and when built, will take over everything in DXB and DXB will close. But that was the plan before the oil crisis and Plan B seems to be to get everyone other than EK ( and EK Codeshare partners) into new terminalage in DWC in time for the Expo, this new terminalage is not the Mega Terminal but an expanded Terminal 1 which should be under contruction by now.
What Terminal plans do they have for when EK eventually arrive in 2025 (the date which has been suggest for them to move to DWC)? I would imagine that the Terminal in question would have to be far bigger (50% bigger? 75%?) than what currently have in DXB (to exploit the addtional runway slots they would now have compared to what they have in DXB).

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
EK wont be moving to DWC before, nor during the EXPO simply because there will not be enough time to build the first phase of the mega hub. We are still waiting for the official launch, and construction of the airport, but nothing is happening for now.
Is EK still planning to move to DWC by 2025?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
The latest news is DXB could handle up to 120 million pax so if DWC goes ahead it needs to handle at least 160 for EK to make the switch. We also don't know for sure what will happen to DXB once a switch is made.
120 Million at DXB (90-95 million at that airport is certainly possible though)? Is this baed on the assunmption that every single flight going in and out of DXB is either a 747, 777-300ER or A380? Because with only 2 runways that is really the only way you can handle that much traffic with so few landing slots.

Likewise if DXB can handle 90-95 million with only 2 runways being used at the same time, then (if there is enough space for the needed terminals, which it seems to be the case) I don't see why DWC (which is planned to have 5 runways and in turn have the ablity to use 4 at the same time) could not handle 180-190 million passngers a year, although I doubt if that capacity would ever be fully used short of Abu Dhabi airport closing and Eithad merging with Emirates.

As for DXB after a possible move by EK to DWC, surely it would make sense to close the airport and redevelop the site (which is close to the Creek area of the City) unless they want a "Mirabel" siutation from happening in Dubai.
British Republic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2016, 06:25 PM   #2478
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Republic View Post
What Terminal plans do they have for when EK eventually arrive in 2025 (the date which has been suggest for them to move to DWC)? I would imagine that the Terminal in question would have to be far bigger (50% bigger? 75%?) than what currently have in DXB (to exploit the addtional runway slots they would now have compared to what they have in DXB).
4 to 6 runways and 200m Pax worth of capacity, mainly in a single terminal. There is a mockup of the 'thinking' in 2012 and 2013 with "ground breaking" in 2014 in this video here >


Oil cost $100+ a barrel back then and was not coming down in price...until it suddenly did, and stayed 'down' for 2 whole years now.

Quote:
Is EK still planning to move to DWC by 2025?
They were, then all this talk recently started about 120m Pax capacity in DXB , I mean in the last 6 months.

Quote:
120 Million at DXB (90-95 million at that airport is certainly possible though)? Is this baed on the assunmption that every single flight going in and out of DXB is either a 747, 777-300ER or A380? Because with only 2 runways that is really the only way you can handle that much traffic with so few landing slots.
Precisely, and you need not separated by anywhere near as many minutes as you would a 737 behind an A380. Nobody ever tried an all heavy airport before, EK would be a logical first candidate for one.
Quote:
Likewise if DXB can handle 90-95 million with only 2 runways being used at the same time, then (if there is enough space for the needed terminals, which it seems to be the case) I don't see why DWC (which is planned to have 5 runways and in turn have the ablity to use 4 at the same time) could not handle 180-190 million passngers a year
Yes. You would be able to dedicate one runway to the west near DWC T1 to Narrows second to Mediums+some narrows and 2 for heavies furthest east. An early mockup of the DWC plan from 10 years ago might help ( 6 runways) T1 on LEFT I think.

Later renders ( 5 runways) and I think five usable in parallel if you keep narrows and mediums off to one side of the terminal. (T1 on RIGHT I Think)

You know you can get 120m thruput on the 2 'heavy' runways because you did so in DXB and that the likes of Stansted can handle 20m+Pax on only one runway, effectively with narrows only in the UK (and that one with restrictions at night unlike Dubai) so I reckon up to 30m on a single runway in Dubai with narrows only using it.
Quote:
As for DXB after a possible move by EK to DWC, surely it would make sense to close the airport and redevelop the site (which is close to the Creek area of the City) unless they want a "Mirabel" siutation from happening in Dubai.
They said they would redevelop it some years ago after the move to DWC but now maybe they will simply keep it. Nobody is really sure anymore since we 'found out' DXB could handle 120m PAX in recent times. Building everything you need onsite for a 200m Pax airport in DWC would cost around 40% of Dubais annual GDP minus whatever the value of DXB is as a site. It is a big big financial ask for a small state.
__________________

patel2897 liked this post

Last edited by sponge_bob; September 10th, 2016 at 03:47 AM. Reason: fix link
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2016, 12:11 PM   #2479
noir-dresses
bling bling
 
noir-dresses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto-Zagreb-Zrce-Dubai
Posts: 5,745
Likes (Received): 2346

Those pictures are of the early renders/models of DWC, we have the new design now that was chosen last year.

Here's a direct link so you can see what it looks like. It has a nice Arabic theme to it, and will really look nice at night when it's lit up.

http://www.dubaiairports.ae/corporat.../photo-gallery

Regarding DXB they can still significantly increase the amount of pax using the airport without the congestion simply because the day time slots are under used. The heavy traffic at DXB is from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. The airport itself can handle the traffic, it's the congestion in the skies that's the problem, but they're working on it as we speak.

When looking at the DWC renders look for the triangular building/terminal on the left side of the first photo. That's the existing terminal that is used now, and that's the same terminal that will get an expansion to increase pax number to 26 million.
noir-dresses no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2016, 09:58 AM   #2480
YU-AMC
Aviation/Travel Nerd
 
YU-AMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Whitchurch, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,248
Likes (Received): 1036

I see that OTP (Bucharest) is nearing to 10M mark this year, but I don't see EK giving them a try..... What is an issue? The yields are not there as Romania being on a poorer scale?
YU-AMC no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
abu dhabi, dubai, emirates, gcc, middle eastern airlines, oneworld, qatar, uae

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium