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Old December 21st, 2007, 04:00 AM   #301
hkskyline
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Originally Posted by ABQ_X-PAT View Post
This is a very good point. Although how many discount carriers can make the long-haul flights from some of these far off places?
I thought a lot of these migrants come from India and Pakistan. From Mumbai, it's only a 3 hour flight to Dubai. I'd imagine they would fly Air India or PIA, which should cost less than Emirates.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 07:54 AM   #302
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I thought a lot of these migrants come from India and Pakistan. From Mumbai, it's only a 3 hour flight to Dubai. I'd imagine they would fly Air India or PIA, which should cost less than Emirates.
But wouldn't Emirates price their fares to compete with Air India and Jet Airways? Emirates should have the most competitive prices into Dubai for Economy class since they're based there. Maybe I'm wrong about this.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 08:27 AM   #303
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But wouldn't Emirates price their fares to compete with Air India and Jet Airways? Emirates should have the most competitive prices into Dubai for Economy class since they're based there. Maybe I'm wrong about this.
The market focus will likely be different. I don't think migrant contractors would need to ship these cheap labourers on a brand like Emirates, so a cheaper alternative will do, and I doubt Emirates would price their product at the same level as Air India or PIA. After all, there is a service difference. Being competitive is not always the same as being equivalent - goes back to the theory that you get what you pay for.

I'd think the lowest cost option would be on a less famous airline that had bare-bones service.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 03:24 PM   #304
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...Also, why would anyone want to go to visit Dubai or any other Arab country where they have laws that sentence female victims of GANG RAPES to 200 lashes and prison time? Is that what American and European visitors to the Arab countries have to look forward to if they are a victim of a crime?

I wish to God that good ole American ingenuity would kick in where we develop an alternative oil source so we can stop subsidizing this non-sense with outrageous oil prices! It is a dream that I am afraid I will not see in this lifetime.
First of all get your facts straight before you spout your thinly-veiled racist remarks.
Also remember that those dictators who continue to rule countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. with their archaic tribal customs are all there thanks to the continued support of the good ole U S of A.!

Merry Christmas!
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Old December 21st, 2007, 08:31 PM   #305
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First of all get your facts straight before you spout your thinly-veiled racist remarks.
Also remember that those dictators who continue to rule countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. with their archaic tribal customs are all there thanks to the continued support of the good ole U S of A.!

Merry Christmas!
"Thinly-veiled racist remarks" eh? What is racist about inquiring if a place like Dubai and it's hometown prima-donna airline tolerates GANG RAPE's of women? My question remains... if Americans and Europeans make Dubai a holiday destination and a female is gang raped will Dubai officials look the other way? Or worse blame her and sentence her to 200 lashings and prison time? My comments remain and I will not retract them.

You are correct about the US supporting these sheiks in Saudi Arabia. I cannot believe I risked my neck in the first gulf war for those spoiled degenerates that comprise the Saudi royal family and their oil fields. NEVER AGAIN and furthermore my son will never fight in a middle east war to protect some spoiled sheiks oil or Dubai's fancy islands and prima-donna airline. Someday the US will develop an alternative energy source and we can let the middle east dictators rot and be over-run. Maybe not in my lifetime but someday --- one can dream right?

Anyway, this thread is about Emirates... IF their growth is truly based on sound business practise and not massive subsidies by some spoiled sheik with an inferiority complex then I wish them well. However evidence exists to the contrary.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 01:45 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by ABQ_X-PAT View Post
"Thinly-veiled racist remarks" eh? What is racist about inquiring if a place like Dubai and it's hometown prima-donna airline tolerates GANG RAPE's of women? My question remains... if Americans and Europeans make Dubai a holiday destination and a female is gang raped will Dubai officials look the other way? Or worse blame her and sentence her to 200 lashings and prison time? My comments remain and I will not retract them.

You are correct about the US supporting these sheiks in Saudi Arabia. I cannot believe I risked my neck in the first gulf war for those spoiled degenerates that comprise the Saudi royal family and their oil fields. NEVER AGAIN and furthermore my son will never fight in a middle east war to protect some spoiled sheiks oil or Dubai's fancy islands and prima-donna airline. Someday the US will develop an alternative energy source and we can let the middle east dictators rot and be over-run. Maybe not in my lifetime but someday --- one can dream right?

Anyway, this thread is about Emirates... IF their growth is truly based on sound business practise and not massive subsidies by some spoiled sheik with an inferiority complex then I wish them well. However evidence exists to the contrary.
Where is this, is that their policy!? You are generalising the whole Middle East.

So what if Emirates gets help from their own government. Lufthansa has bought most European airlines so it doesn’t have competition and denied rights to some airlines to fly to German cities. US airlines constantly go bankrupt but the government helps them every single time.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 10:48 AM   #307
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Mr. ABQ_X-PAT, don't fly with Emirates whats the big deal and why u need to tell us about it !!! PERSONALLY I don't care what airline u prefer to fly with !! LOL


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Yet another reason for me NOT to fly on an airline whose growth is based in irrational exuberance. Only a fool would deny global warming after the mountain of evidence above and beyond the film made by the former US Vice President.

=========================================================

...imateaviationemiratesgorefilm.html[/url]
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 10:55 AM   #308
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Greed is all I can say... I cant stand the corporate world...

Oh, yeah, so that's why you're using a computer made by a corportation, on the internet provided by a corporation. Makes sense. Yeah I totally hate the corporate world too.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 05:25 PM   #309
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Emirates does not want the slave laborers on its planes

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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The market focus will likely be different. I don't think migrant contractors would need to ship these cheap labourers on a brand like Emirates, so a cheaper alternative will do, and I doubt Emirates would price their product at the same level as Air India or PIA. After all, there is a service difference. Being competitive is not always the same as being equivalent - goes back to the theory that you get what you pay for.

I'd think the lowest cost option would be on a less famous airline that had bare-bones service.

Of course Emirates does not want the slave laborers on it's planes! How would that look to the "pretty people" from Europe and America that they desperately wish to attract with the fancy towers and tacky islands in Dubai etc...
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 05:49 PM   #310
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Um... your retort is filled with errors...

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Originally Posted by Luka View Post
Where is this, is that their policy!? You are generalising the whole Middle East.

So what if Emirates gets help from their own government. Lufthansa has bought most European airlines so it doesn’t have competition and denied rights to some airlines to fly to German cities. US airlines constantly go bankrupt but the government helps them every single time.
I am not generalizing at all. I asked a simple question... if American or European women travel to Dubai and gang-raped will the government protect them? Will they go after the perpetrators? Or will they sentence the victims to 200 lashings and prison time? I did not find any editorials or outrage at their Arab "brothers" over this incident in Saudi in Dubai newspapers after a Lexus Nexus search... It is a legitimate question and my conclusion remains. Dubai is not a safe place for American or European women period.

Does Emirates receive help or direct secret unfair subsidies that no one else does like fuel prices that are 90% below what others have to pay... or secretly subsidizing the airline for the fuel they consume while in destination countries... subsidizing aircraft orders that if they were a stand alone airline could never justify because of the size of the market. etc etc... If this continues, starting with the United States will find Emirates banned from flying to the US Mainland because of unfair trade practises... how long do you think it would take for the European and Asian countries to follow? They will not allow Emirates to cannibalize their own carriers and market with illegal subsidies. Don't think it will happen? Think again.

As far as American airlines go you are correct. We have many airline here. Some make it. Others don't. It is a cut-throat business and absolutely brutal on the bottom line. However, I cannot think of a single airline that was bailed out during bankruptcy reorganization... Northwest? Nope. United? Nope. US Airways? Nope. Delta? Nope. I do know the government here subsidized most of the carriers immediately after the 9/11 terrorists attacks. This more had to do with keeping the industry stable after the disruptions to their operations after the airspace was closed for four days. The US aviation industry accounts for 10% of our economy so you can see why they did it.

BTW... I did a check and could not find where Lufthansa had the authority to deny anyone landing rights to any German city. They do not have this type of regulatory authority... they also have not bought "most" of the airlines as you claim. Not even close.

Last edited by ABQ_X-PAT; December 22nd, 2007 at 05:51 PM. Reason: Punc
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 03:31 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by ABQ_X-PAT View Post
I am not generalizing at all. I asked a simple question... if American or European women travel to Dubai and gang-raped will the government protect them? Will they go after the perpetrators? Or will they sentence the victims to 200 lashings and prison time? I did not find any editorials or outrage at their Arab "brothers" over this incident in Saudi in Dubai newspapers after a Lexus Nexus search... It is a legitimate question and my conclusion remains. Dubai is not a safe place for American or European women period.

Does Emirates receive help or direct secret unfair subsidies that no one else does like fuel prices that are 90% below what others have to pay... or secretly subsidizing the airline for the fuel they consume while in destination countries... subsidizing aircraft orders that if they were a stand alone airline could never justify because of the size of the market. etc etc... If this continues, starting with the United States will find Emirates banned from flying to the US Mainland because of unfair trade practises... how long do you think it would take for the European and Asian countries to follow? They will not allow Emirates to cannibalize their own carriers and market with illegal subsidies. Don't think it will happen? Think again.

As far as American airlines go you are correct. We have many airline here. Some make it. Others don't. It is a cut-throat business and absolutely brutal on the bottom line. However, I cannot think of a single airline that was bailed out during bankruptcy reorganization... Northwest? Nope. United? Nope. US Airways? Nope. Delta? Nope. I do know the government here subsidized most of the carriers immediately after the 9/11 terrorists attacks. This more had to do with keeping the industry stable after the disruptions to their operations after the airspace was closed for four days. The US aviation industry accounts for 10% of our economy so you can see why they did it.

BTW... I did a check and could not find where Lufthansa had the authority to deny anyone landing rights to any German city. They do not have this type of regulatory authority... they also have not bought "most" of the airlines as you claim. Not even close.
The German Aviation Authority denied a few airlines in order to protect their national airline Lufthansa some examples like Jat Airways and even EK which are being denied flights to US via Hamburg. Lufthansa own or has shares in many major European airlines. These are just some: Austrian Airlines, Swiss International Airlines, Air Dolomiti, Augsburg Airways, Contact Air, Eurowings, Lufthansa Cargo, Lufthansa CityLine, Interflug, Crossair, Air Berlin, SunExpress, Air One, soon it will buy out JetBlue and it has shares in Iberia.

AS for EK I don't really care. Personally I believe they will go bankrupt sooner or later because of the quick expansion. I'm not getting into politics as I don't live there and have been there once in my life as a tourist.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 09:01 PM   #312
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Luka, I agree that EK and their expansion is unsustainable

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AS for EK I don't really care. Personally I believe they will go bankrupt sooner or later because of the quick expansion. I'm not getting into politics as I don't live there and have been there once in my life as a tourist.
Luka, I agree that EK and their expansion is unsustainable from a business stand-point assuming they are not receiving unfair subsidies from the sheik with a inferiority complex. I do not see how they will keep 55+ A380's filled enough to make it feasible from a business stand-point.

I have heard that Lufthansa was interested in buying JetBlue also. I am not sure if it will survive regulatory review as foreign owned carriers cannot control more than 49% of any American based airline. Virgin America almost was denied a license to fly because of it.

Lastly, if Saudi Arabia and the rest of their ilk in that area do not hear and feel the outrage over incidents regarding gang rapes and the way they treat the victims will make them think it is ok. It's not. And if the sheik with a inferiority complex in Dubai wants Americans to spend our money there he had better wake up and denounce this stuff.

Last edited by ABQ_X-PAT; December 23rd, 2007 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Punc
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Old December 24th, 2007, 03:19 PM   #313
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Luka, I agree that EK and their expansion is unsustainable from a business stand-point assuming they are not receiving unfair subsidies from the sheik with a inferiority complex. I do not see how they will keep 55+ A380's filled enough to make it feasible from a business stand-point.

I have heard that Lufthansa was interested in buying JetBlue also. I am not sure if it will survive regulatory review as foreign owned carriers cannot control more than 49% of any American based airline. Virgin America almost was denied a license to fly because of it.

Lastly, if Saudi Arabia and the rest of their ilk in that area do not hear and feel the outrage over incidents regarding gang rapes and the way they treat the victims will make them think it is ok. It's not. And if the sheik with a inferiority complex in Dubai wants Americans to spend our money there he had better wake up and denounce this stuff.

Ignoramus.
For a start Dubai and Saudi are not the same country.
As for the rest...never mind.
Nobody cares what you think.
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Old December 24th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #314
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Emirates buying big as it sizes up future

By Slobodan Lekic

Associated Press

December 24, 2007

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates

Emirates has ordered a jaw-dropping 245 new wide-body planes, but the company's president shuns suggestions that he wants to create the world's biggest airline.

"I'm not bothered personally if that makes us the biggest or not," Emirates President Tim Clark said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Aviation analysts say that the airline's unprecedented rate of growth would make it the world's largest within the next decade. At last month's Dubai Air Show, Emirates ordered 120 Airbus A350 XWB jets, 11 additional A380 superjumbos -- increasing its total order to 58 -- and a dozen Boeing 777-300ERs, which is more than double its current fleet of 112 planes.

The orders, amounting to $34.9 billion at list price, bring the value of the airline's total order book to an unheard-of $60 billion.

Clark, who helped establish the company in 1985 and has served as its president ever since, said his main aim is for the airline to keep its focus and remain an industry trendsetter in terms of quality of service.

"The business model saw us focusing on the geocentricity of Dubai, focusing on the fact that within that 8-hour flying zone we had 4 billion people," he said.

Emirates serves 99 cities in 62 nations, and a new city is added every two months, on average. A second U.S. destination, the direct Dubai-Houston route, was inaugurated in December. In North America, Emirates flies to New York and Toronto; Clark said routes to two more cities in the United States were in the plan for next year, but he declined to name them.

At a time when many airlines around the world are feeling the pinch of high fuel prices and a declining dollar, Emirates expects to top $1 billion in profit in the fiscal year ending March 31 on revenue of $8.1 billion. That would represent an 18.5 percent increase over the first year's figure of $844 million.

This is partly due to the currency peg between the UAE's dirham and the U.S. dollar. Emirates reports in dirhams, but a large proportion of its earnings is in euros and pounds sterling, and the dollar's slide "actually makes us look good," Clark noted.

Emirates also has benefited from the general economic boom in the United Arab Emirates, whose thriving economy has been fueled by high oil prices and a rapidly growing tourism industry.

Statistics show that nearly half of its passengers make connections in Dubai.

Major aviation hub

Over the past 15 years Dubai International Airport has developed into one of the largest hubs in world aviation. A new airport, said to be the world's largest, is under construction near Jebel Ali, a massive complex that includes a port, airport, residential areas, hotels and a free-trade zone about 12 miles from the city center.

Emirates is wholly government owned, but its chairman, Sheik Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, last month indicated that 30 percent of the company may be sold in public markets. He did not elaborate.

Emirates' operating costs are significantly lower than those of its European or U.S. rivals, said Michael Dyment, an aviation analyst at Nexa Capital Partners, a Washington, D.C., corporate finance group.

He credited Dubai's zero tax rate, the airline's ability to tap credit markets to buy new airplanes because of Dubai's good credit standing and the fact that legacy costs like pension burdens are low.

It also helps to operate in a country where the laws prohibit trade unions.

"One of the key advantages they have over others is that the airline itself is not subject to the same labor rules," Dyment said. "They are able to keep organized labor away, so they don't have a unionized environment that has been detrimental to other carriers."

Stable management

John Strickland, director of London-based JLS Consulting, noted that the airline is almost unique in civil aviation because it has kept the same top management team since inception. They have developed a product that has allowed Emirates to capitalize on high-end fares for business and first-class seating on long-range routes.

"Dubai has a very good geographic location in terms of offering services to European consumers going on to Asia, and this has been a strong selling point for the airline," he said. "But Emirates has also been very good at developing traffic flows that bypass Europe, like from China to Africa. This irritates European carriers who also perceive Emirates, rightly or wrongly, as subsidized by the government."

Clark angrily denied persistent criticisms that the 20-year-old Emirates carrier was receiving preferential treatment from the Dubai government in terms of lower fuel costs and other benefits.

"Categorically, unequivocally and emphatically, we have never been subsidized," he said.

Clark, a veteran of now-defunct British Caledonian airline, joined Emirates the day it was founded two decades ago after spending a decade working for Bahrain's Gulf Air, once the region's pre-eminent carrier.

He welcomed the rise of other Gulf region airlines, such as Etihad, Qatar Airways or Oman Air. Those airlines, along with a host of budget carriers, have been set up since the 1990s to take advantage of the unprecedented boom in travel via the Gulf.

The Middle East's three main budget airlines -- Air Arabia, Jazeera Airways and Atlas Blue -- have grabbed 5 percent of the region's air travel market, and analysts say that portion is set to increase in coming years as booming Gulf economies attract more fliers.

"On the basis that the global market is an ever-growing thing, and as long as they go about doing things the same way we do, there's no reason why they shouldn't be as successful as we are without getting at each other's throats," Clark said.

Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...=chi-navrailbu
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Old December 31st, 2007, 12:57 PM   #315
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Anyway, this thread is about Emirates... IF their growth is truly based on sound business practise and not massive subsidies by some spoiled sheik with an inferiority complex then I wish them well. However evidence exists to the contrary.
evidence exists to the contrary? i dont think so.

i work for emirates. the airline will be going public soon. would you like me to provide you with its financial report and operating statistics audited by PriceWaterhouseCoopers? I believe I may have already posted the report on this thread. that is unless you believe the entire PWC operation is in fact a huge conspiracy funded by some spoiled sheikh with an inferiority complex.

also, with regard to Maurice Flanagan's "global warming is rubbish" statement. you do realize the context in which that statement was made right? if not, let me inform you. the remark was made in the context of the global air travel industry's contribution to global warming. Pressure is on aircraft manufacturers and airlines to reduce emissions. since air travel accounts for 2% of emissions that increase global warming, the "global warming is rubbish" statement was made in response to pressure that air travel heavily contributes to global warming. I think you and I can safely agree that gas guzzling SUVs are more the issuehere.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 01:00 PM   #316
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"Thinly-veiled racist remarks" eh? What is racist about inquiring if a place like Dubai and it's hometown prima-donna airline tolerates GANG RAPE's of women? My question remains... if Americans and Europeans make Dubai a holiday destination and a female is gang raped will Dubai officials look the other way? Or worse blame her and sentence her to 200 lashings and prison time? My comments remain and I will not retract them.
you do realize this was a one-time incident that occurred not in Dubai, but in SAUDI ARABIA. is the US supposed to be held accountable for say... an execution in Brazil? i dont think so. additionally, you do realize the 200 lashes for the woman was not because she was gang-raped, but because she was in a car with random men (a crime in SA but thats a whole other issue)? you also realize that she was actually pardoned and did not receive lashes right (again another issue)?

women in Dubai are raped, and like in many countries, the rapists are jailed. i suppose you didnt know that so i forgive you.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 01:02 PM   #317
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Of course Emirates does not want the slave laborers on it's planes! How would that look to the "pretty people" from Europe and America that they desperately wish to attract with the fancy towers and tacky islands in Dubai etc...
i just flew Emirates from Colombo-Dubai while sitting next to a bunch of housemaids who I had pleasant conversations with who were returning to Dammam, Saudi Arabia for the 4th time after going back to Sri Lanka on vacation to visit their families
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Old December 31st, 2007, 01:12 PM   #318
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Also, why in the hell would I want to connect in Dubai, assuming I fly Emirates, to go to London from San Francisco... or connect in Dubai to travel to Hong Kong... I think not!
sure, if youre flying from London to SF, only an idiot would connect through Dubai. but if youre an Egyptian flying from Cairo to Shanghai, Emirates will be providing you with the most convenient connection. if you are flying from Accra to Singapore, likewise.

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Lets face reality here folks. The Middle East and yes Dubai overall is NOT a place for Europeans or Americans.
I disagree, I am an American living in Dubai and I have tons of European and American friends living here who feel happy and very safe.

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as a member of the US Marine Corps during operation desert storm in the early 90's (remember that? When we rescued a fellow Arab country from a very nasty neighbor --- that would be Kuwait). [Slightly off topic: Guess what my unit did when we deployed to Saudi Arabia during the early days of the first gulf war? Guarded the oil fields... or specifically guarded some spoiled Saudi princes assets so he can buy his very own toy... a private A380 aircraft. I find this display of "in your face" arrogant wealth grotesque and nauseating. I cannot believe I risked my neck for that type of behaviour --- NEVER AGAIN.]
Iraq was a US ally until 1990. the very nastiness you seem to be against was something the US seemed to like very much until the prospect of losing access to cheap oil popped up. i actually have the tiniest smidgen of respect for you for recognizing that US involvement in the Gulf War was about protecting US oil interests (which had secondary implications that spoilt saudi princes would also reap the benefits).

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My point is if Dubai can become a haven for Americans on holiday, and they fly there via Emirates, how long do you think it will take for a bunch of extremists and Islamic terrorists to start targeting these areas and Dubai itself? IT IS NOT WORTH THE RISK!
you have a point here. there are already tons of westerners here but touchwood so far nothing bad has happened. all i can say is i hope it stays this way. in either case, I would rather have Dubai at least try to develop instead of just giving in to fear of terrorist activity and revert back to a tribal backwater as you might hope.
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Old January 1st, 2008, 05:52 AM   #319
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the "terrorist extremist" bogeyman is a creation of the media of certain countries. look at the number of innocent civilians killed by usa and uk alone in iraq, and compare with the number of dead by these "terrorist extremists" groups.

the biggest terrorists undoubtedly are usa and uk.
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Old January 1st, 2008, 01:07 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by weltmeister View Post
the "terrorist extremist" bogeyman is a creation of the media of certain countries. look at the number of innocent civilians killed by usa and uk alone in iraq, and compare with the number of dead by these "terrorist extremists" groups.

the biggest terrorists undoubtedly are usa and uk.


HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! you've got to be kidding !!!!!

Islamic suicide bombers killing innocent civilians including women and children aren't terrorist I supposed?

Last edited by mwg12a; January 2nd, 2008 at 11:53 AM.
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