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Old March 27th, 2010, 04:08 AM   #461
ir desi
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As an Indian-American raised and educated in one of the most culturally liberal parts of the US, I agree wholeheartedly with Dubaiiscool.

My fellow Westerners, why are you claiming that your system of beliefs should be the law everywhere? Why are your ways inherently right? If you can truly claim to be "cosmopolitan" or "modern," you must recognize that other legitimate belief systems prevail in other parts of the world. To billions around the world, marriage is not some "half-year commitment" as it is treated in the West. Marriage carries far more weight in the East, and as such, marital decisions are made more thoughtfully and divorce rates are lower. You may not believe that marital infidelity is a major crime, but any truly open-minded person could see why the majority of people from another culture might believe it is, and therefore might codify punishments for it in their system of law.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 09:06 AM   #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubajzo View Post
I visit Dubai at least once a year and it is a very nice city, but some of your rules and laws are ridiculous to say the least. There is no reason for the state to be handling such things as cheating.
Well if you look at the Western World it's not controlled in a strict way and that's why there is so much crime and disputes etc., compared to countries like the UAE where they have very strict rules and thus has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

-The laws in the UAE wasn't always this strict but in 2006 article 358 was made on ‘obscene public acts and violations of public decency' which stipulates no less than a six-month jail term would be handed to violators.
-Article 360 stipulates that "anything that provokes promiscuity" could result in a year's prison term and or a Dh5,000 fine.

When more expats moved to the UAE in 2006,these laws was clearly made because the culture of the country wasn't respected. When you look at

It is a basic human right that the 'cultural rights of minorities and Indigenous Peoples should be respected .'

So there is nothing wrong with the laws of the UAE, it's just that it's not the laws that the western world are used to.

BTW. I am from South Africa not the UAE.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 09:14 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartje83 View Post
There's also the basic decency of, say not cutting in line at the supermarket. But there's no laws against that, is there?

Also, for a city into tourism as much as Dubai, I think they really should do something about their 'strict laws' against tourists. Works pretty well for Egypt (Sharm-el-Sheikh) for example.
Do you like it when people french kiss in front of you or have sex in front of you?

The laws are good and that's why most people who visits Dubai have a nice and pleasant stay while respecting the people around them.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 09:19 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by Brum X View Post
I have never been to Dubai, but i would love too however the more stuff like this i hear, the more and more i am going off the place, so much for the place spending billions and billions when you cant even hold hands or kiss on a beach. Sorry Dubai or Emirates, you wont be getting my money until you change your ways.
You are allowed to hold hands
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Old March 27th, 2010, 09:20 AM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ir desi View Post
As an Indian-American raised and educated in one of the most culturally liberal parts of the US, I agree wholeheartedly with Dubaiiscool.

My fellow Westerners, why are you claiming that your system of beliefs should be the law everywhere? Why are your ways inherently right? If you can truly claim to be "cosmopolitan" or "modern," you must recognize that other legitimate belief systems prevail in other parts of the world. To billions around the world, marriage is not some "half-year commitment" as it is treated in the West. Marriage carries far more weight in the East, and as such, marital decisions are made more thoughtfully and divorce rates are lower. You may not believe that marital infidelity is a major crime, but any truly open-minded person could see why the majority of people from another culture might believe it is, and therefore might codify punishments for it in their system of law.
Couldn't agree more
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Old March 27th, 2010, 09:25 AM   #466
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Here's a link to a slide show on public decency in the UAE.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 11:02 AM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubaiiscool:) View Post
Well if you look at the Western World it's not controlled in a strict way and that's why there is so much crime and disputes etc., compared to countries like the UAE where they have very strict rules and thus has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

-The laws in the UAE wasn't always this strict but in 2006 article 358 was made on ‘obscene public acts and violations of public decency' which stipulates no less than a six-month jail term would be handed to violators.
-Article 360 stipulates that "anything that provokes promiscuity" could result in a year's prison term and or a Dh5,000 fine.

When more expats moved to the UAE in 2006,these laws was clearly made because the culture of the country wasn't respected. When you look at

It is a basic human right that the 'cultural rights of minorities and Indigenous Peoples should be respected .'

So there is nothing wrong with the laws of the UAE, it's just that it's not the laws that the western world are used to.

BTW. I am from South Africa not the UAE.
Do you think kissing in public would mean the raise of criminality? In my opinion is that laws should be applied on those, who harm the society or individuals. By kissing someone you DO NOT harm anyone. Do You know how many times I've been kissing my girlfriend in public (I tried to keep some decency and we were not doing it in front of other people because it might be uncomfortable but solving this by a law isn't the best option)?
The reason Dubai has such a low rate of criminality is that it's a young city and quite rich which means people don't feel the must to steal or rob.
Yes I'm a westerner and a liberal one but I have never felt that the town where I grew up would a dangerous place to live in. I have never been robbed and my car has never been stolen.
Nevertheless people of UAE have the right to create laws in their country the way they want and my opinion is irrelevant, but I have the right to disagree. If people don't like these, they have the option not to go there. But I still think some laws there are and will be ridiculous. Each society becomes more liberal as the time goes. UAE needs more time for that. My country was and still is quite conservative (homosexuality was a crime here until late 80s and soft drugs are still heavily punished here (too heavily if You ask me).

Last edited by Kubajzo; March 27th, 2010 at 11:09 AM.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 11:02 AM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubaiiscool:) View Post
Not if you are in a country where Islam is the largest religion. It's against the law and where they were aware of it. They should respect the culture of the UAE.
Largest religion? I thought that you had more expats than nationals?
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Old March 27th, 2010, 11:21 AM   #469
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Originally Posted by Indictable View Post
Largest religion? I thought that you had more expats than nationals?
'Islam is largest and the official state religion of the UAE, though the government follows a policy of tolerance towards other religions and rarely interferes in the activities of non-Muslims.'

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates
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Old March 27th, 2010, 11:42 AM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubajzo View Post
Do you think kissing in public would mean the raise of criminality? In my opinion is that laws should be applied on those, who harm the society or individuals.
I do agree that normal kissing is okay. I'm talking about intimate kissing which is quite awkward.(Intimate kissing in public is the only kissing that is banned)

Quote:
By kissing someone you DO NOT harm anyone. Do You know how many times I've been kissing my girlfriend in public (I tried to keep some decency and we were not doing it in front of other people because it might be uncomfortable but solving this by a law isn't the best option)?
But if people know about it and still continue doing it it is the only way.

Quote:
The reason Dubai has such a low rate of criminality is that it's a young city and quite rich which means people don't feel the must to steal or rob.
Dubai does actually have quite a lot of poor people.

Quote:
Yes I'm a westerner and a liberal one but I have never felt that the town where I grew up would a dangerous place to live in.I have never been robbed and my car has never been stolen.
I am not necessary pointing at your country but the west in general...

Quote:
Nevertheless people of UAE have the right to create laws in their country the way they want and my opinion is irrelevant, but I have the right to disagree.If people don't like these, they have the option not to go there.
But I still think some laws there are and will be ridiculous. Each society becomes more liberal as the time goes.UAE needs more time for that. My country was and still is quite conservative (homosexuality was a crime here until late 80s and soft drugs are still heavily punished here (too heavily if You ask me).
But don't you think people would be better of without drugs and smoking?

If things like that wasn't created the world could have been a better place.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 03:11 PM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubaiiscool:) View Post
But if people know about it and still continue doing it it is the only way.
You don't have to ban every little thing. I don't like slow drivers and I am not gonna ban them. The issue is that if people don't like it, it is more or less their problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubaiiscool:) View Post
Dubai does actually have quite a lot of poor people.
I know, I have seen buses stuffed by Pakistanis but considering other cities in the world it is above the average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubaiiscool:) View Post
But don't you think people would be better of without drugs and smoking?
World would be better of many things. I am not trying to defend drugs, I'm just saying that if someone who smokes for example cannabis and he's not making a mess and is not smoking in the public place is not causing harm to the society and therefore should not be punished. If he wants to smoke a hole in his head it is his problem and his responsibility for himself.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 03:52 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubaiiscool:) View Post
Not if you are in a country where Islam is the largest religion. It's against the law and where they were aware of it. They should respect the culture of the UAE.
You are mixing two concepts. In US, there are millions of very social conservative families, and they practice their religion with ardent fervor and dedication. For many of them, their church is even more important than their extended family. That is ok, because there is separation of Church (and for that matter, mosque or synagogue or vodu terrace) and State.

Every time some discussion like this comes up, it gets derailed because many people don't understand the difference between respecting one's belief and abiding to them. How would thousands of Muslims feel if they were to be sentenced to 3-months sentence for blasphemy against God if they were spotted by, say, the Spanish police in Madrid wearing long beards and those typical hats some of them sue? How would Jews feel if they were to be arrested for selling humus?

The problem is not to respect some culture, but to respect the right of other to live by different standards - at least if your country's government spend billions to attract skilled workforce and tourists. As it is done now, I'd call, without any intention to be disrespectful, Dubai's tourist propaganda at least as misleading: they promote a sky-high tennis tournament, sell alcohol on free shops, but then jail someone for kissing in public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ir desi View Post
You may not believe that marital infidelity is a major crime, but any truly open-minded person could see why the majority of people from another culture might believe it is, and therefore might codify punishments for it in their system of law.
Misleading argument. Taken to extremes, your argument would provide that a true open-minded person in the 1930's would understand the majority outcry from Germans coming from defeat in World War I and would understand why eugenics and racial laws had to be enacted. It is just a matter of scale.

Either you have universal values you believe are superior and desirable for EVERYONE (like the right to make your own sexual choices with other consent adult without being subject to interference of criminal law, or separation of State and religious bodies), or you don't.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 04:36 PM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
You are mixing two concepts. In US, there are millions of very social conservative families, and they practice their religion with ardent fervor and dedication. For many of them, their church is even more important than their extended family. That is ok, because there is separation of Church (and for that matter, mosque or synagogue or vodu terrace) and State.

Every time some discussion like this comes up, it gets derailed because many people don't understand the difference between respecting one's belief and abiding to them. How would thousands of Muslims feel if they were to be sentenced to 3-months sentence for blasphemy against God if they were spotted by, say, the Spanish police in Madrid wearing long beards and those typical hats some of them sue? How would Jews feel if they were to be arrested for selling humus?

The problem is not to respect some culture, but to respect the right of other to live by different standards - at least if your country's government spend billions to attract skilled workforce and tourists. As it is done now, I'd call, without any intention to be disrespectful, Dubai's tourist propaganda at least as misleading: they promote a sky-high tennis tournament, sell alcohol on free shops, but then jail someone for kissing in public.



Misleading argument. Taken to extremes, your argument would provide that a true open-minded person in the 1930's would understand the majority outcry from Germans coming from defeat in World War I and would understand why eugenics and racial laws had to be enacted. It is just a matter of scale.

Either you have universal values you believe are superior and desirable for EVERYONE (like the right to make your own sexual choices with other consent adult without being subject to interference of criminal law, or separation of State and religious bodies), or you don't.
Suburbanist, I do agree that Dubai's advertising strategy does not reflect its legal system, and I really dislike Dubai as a whole for its horrible abuse of construction and domestic workers, but...

You are taking arguments to inappropriate extremes. Common, universal values are defined not by what is law in the US and in Europe, but what is codified in international covenant under the auspices of the UN or other IGOs. Under the principle of R2P, it is also provided that when a signatory country violates the provisions of these covenants, other countries may intervene to protect against rights abuses.

Genocide, and mass murder, are not only offensive to any rational mind, but are prohibited by these covenants. Last I heard, protection from prosecution for marital infidelity isn't.

By the way, don't most liberals (myself included) claim that marriage is a secular institution when they argue for gay rights? So why is marital infidelity now strictly a religious violation, and laws against it religious law?
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Old March 27th, 2010, 05:54 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ir desi View Post
By the way, don't most liberals (myself included) claim that marriage is a secular institution when they argue for gay rights? So why is marital infidelity now strictly a religious violation, and laws against it religious law?
The point is not whether marital infidelity could be outlawed or not, but whether it could be a criminal offense worth imprisonment.

I guess almost no one would support theft. I don't too, but that doesn't mean I support amputation as a proper punishment, for instance. I also don't support people not paying their commercial debts, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with jailing debtors - it should be a civil matter only.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The point is not whether marital infidelity could be outlawed or not, but whether it could be a criminal offense worth imprisonment.

I guess almost no one would support theft. I don't too, but that doesn't mean I support amputation as a proper punishment, for instance. I also don't support people not paying their commercial debts, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with jailing debtors - it should be a civil matter only.
Really, is that the argument you and others have been making? All I see here are arguments against any government interference in the marital sphere - arguing that government should not be involved at all, not between classification as a civil or criminal offense.

Don't twist words to suit the argument of the day.

I do agree with you on a personal level that marital infidelity should be punished at most as a civil crime. Still, according to international law, the UAE does have the right to make it a criminal offense.

Last edited by ir desi; March 27th, 2010 at 06:10 PM.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 08:34 PM   #476
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Emirates 777 plunges 18,000 ft

KOCHI - A major air disaster was averted on Sunday morning when an Emirates aeroplane flying over Goa hit an air-pocket and landed safely at the Nedumbasserry International Airport in Kochi.

Passengers of the Emirates flight from Dubai to Kochi suffered anxious moments when their aircraft had a free fall of almost 18,500 feet in an air pocket.

An air pocket is a downward air current that causes an aircraft to lose altitude abruptly. It is a localised region of low air density or a descending air current, causing an aircraft to suffer an abrupt decrease in height.

The plane hit an air pocket during flight, and dropped from a height of 20,000 to 1,500 feet.

Fortunately, the pilot was miraculously able to regain control after dropping 18,500 feet and managed to right the plane just in time to land safely at Kochi.

The incident occurred at around 10.30 am and the Goa Air Traffic Control was the first to report the incident.

After the plane landed at the airport, a team of doctors examined all passengers.

Passengers suffered shock and bruises when the aircraft made the sudden descent in the air pocket.

The plane too suffered damages.

Emirates Airlines officials said they would issue a statement shortly.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 08:11 AM   #477
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Good to know they are all safe.

Bravo to the pilot
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Old April 26th, 2010, 09:36 AM   #478
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This isn't clear air turbulence / wind shear?
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Old April 26th, 2010, 11:23 AM   #479
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Plane plunged 200 feet not 18,000 ft. The articles are all bullshit!
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Old April 26th, 2010, 11:26 AM   #480
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When I spotted the title I myself almost fainted. 18,000 feet plunge would definitely cause all passengers inside to die due to heart attack !
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