EK/EY/QR/SV | Gulf States Based-Carriers

[Nick in Atlanta]

Seat pitch is defined as: This is the distance between a row of seats - the measurement from the same position on two seats, one behind the other - it is NOT the legroom area as some believe. (For example, the back face of the seat in front of you, measured to the same point on the back face of the seat you are sitting in)

The problem with giving the seat pitch is that it doesn't take into consideration the thickness of the seat itself. With all the inflight entertainment systems on various airlines nowadays, the thickness of the seat can vary by a few inches and if you're 6 foot 3 inches like me that can make a huge difference in a comfortable flight and a very uncomfortable flight. This is especially true if the person in front of you puts their seat back.

[london-b]

Originally Posted by Nick in Atlanta

Seat pitch is defined as: This is the distance between a row of seats - the measurement from the same position on two seats, one behind the other - it is NOT the legroom area as some believe. (For example, the back face of the seat in front of you, measured to the same point on the back face of the seat you are sitting in)

The problem with giving the seat pitch is that it doesn't take into consideration the thickness of the seat itself. With all the inflight entertainment systems on various airlines nowadays, the thickness of the seat can vary by a few inches and if you're 6 foot 3 inches like me that can make a huge difference in a comfortable flight and a very uncomfortable flight. This is especially true if the person in front of you puts their seat back.

I know what you mean! I'm also 6 foot 3 inches, I'm going on my longest flight this month from London to Hong Kong on swiss. Hope it's ok lol I'm 16, Hope I don't grow much more or come into a lot of money

[AFL]

Originally Posted by samsonyuen

I remember flying Malaysia, and what annoyed me most was that it had a bad pitch.

MAS has 34" seat pitch in all of their 747 and 777 and 31" in Boeing 737 and Airbus 330

[vvill]

emirates is honestly not that great. i'm a frequent flyer on the airline but the only reason i choose to fly with emirates is because it's cheap compared to other carriers.

in-flight entertainment on its newest 777-300ER is superb (the ICE system) but it's pretty crap on the rest of the fleet (no AVOD). as someone has suggested, the economy seats are quite good but the business and first class seats are a total shame. (non A345/B777-300ER) i think the screens are only like 7' or 10' which are ridiculously small on business class.

transit at dubai is a total nightmare due to the sheer volume of passengers. the airport is extremely crowded (though undergoing expansion - won't be finished for another year) and many aircrafts are forced to park miles away from the main terminal and it sometimes take more than 20-30 mins to get to the terminal for transit. i can also see that they've recently replaced part of the duty free shop into security checking gates on the lower level which is a good thing to handle the increasing amount of passengers but at the same time it also means that passengers now have fewer choices to shop at the airport.

[Nick in Atlanta]

WOW!! All of a sudden Emirates has dropped down to just being another airline. A couple years ago all the talk was about where and when they were going to announce another expansion. I guess a little of their shine has worn off.

[spongeg]

Delivery of the Airbus A380 superjumbo, the largest commercial airliner ever built, will be delayed another 10 months, one of the aircraft's customers, the Dubai-based Emirates Airlines, said Tuesday in Paris.

According to Emirates chief Tim Clark, Airbus informed his company of the new delay in delivery of the plane, which leaves the A380 programme some 22 months behind schedule.

"This is a very serious problem for Emirates and the air carrier will now examine all of its options," Clark said in a statement.

Emirates is the A380's largest customer, having ordered 43 of the planes, which can seat between 555 and 800 passengers, depending on the aircraft's configuration.

Problems with the electric wiring of the A380 have led to three delivery postponements, which in turn caused the share price of Airbus's parent company EADS to plunge and a reshuffle of Airbus and EADS management.

The new delays will cost Airbus additional contract penalties and losses of planned revenues. New Airbus chief Christian Steiff is currently presenting to EADS executives and Airbus managers his plans to trim costs and improve production arrangements. His plan is expected to be made public either later Tuesday or Wednesday.

http://www.playfuls.com/news_09_184-...ines-Says.html

[hkskyline]

Airlines shudder at new delay for Airbus superjumbo
By Sonali Paul

MELBOURNE, Oct 4 (Reuters) - The world's airlines were forced to review growth plans on Wednesday after Airbus parent EADS again pushed back first delivery of its troubled A380 superjumbo.

Franco-German-led company EADS delayed first delivery of the world's largest jetliner by another year on Tuesday, and said its launch customer, Singapore Airlines , would receive its first plane in October 2007, 10 months overdue.

Standard & Poor's said it might cut its rating on EADS on the back of a profit warning and the delay, due mainly to problems installing wiring in the $300 million double-decker planes.

"As the delay will disrupt the expansion strategies of a number of major airlines, the group's competitive position on wide-body aircraft could be adversely affected," the debt rating agency said.

Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. said it would not receive its first A380 until August 2008, two years late. It expects to receive four of the planes by the end of that year and seven by mid-2009.

In the meantime it said it was reviewing its capacity needs.

"How are we going to mount the capacity in the short-term? What does it mean in the long-term? Where do we go from here? It's all part of the review," Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti told Reuters.

Qantas's comments echoed statements from Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic [VA.UL] and Dubai airline Emirates [EMAIR.UL], the biggest buyer with an order for 43 superjumbos worth $13 billion at list prices.

Singapore Airlines said it was awaiting further news on the delay to the 19 Airbus 380 planes it ordered but said it would receive six new planes from Airbus's U.S. rival, Boeing Co. , soon.

Qantas did not rule out cancelling the A380 order.

"I'm not going to speculate on that. That's just between us and Airbus," Borghetti said.

The Airbus troubles sent shares in Boeing up 2.3 percent to $81.78.

CANCELLATION THREAT

Airbus has sold 143 passenger versions of the plane to 14 airlines.

JP Morgan analyst Matt Crowe said while Qantas might consider scrapping the superjumbo order, it was unlikely to do so.

"From what they said today, I think they're still committed to these planes. They're very desirable for Qantas's needs."

Qantas shares rose as much as 2.3 percent to a seven-month high of A$4.05 as oil prices fell. The stock last traded up 0.8 percent at A$3.99, in a wider market down 0.2 percent.

Qantas's Borghetti declined to comment on whether the airline would claim further damages from Airbus on top of the A$104 million ($77 million) it already expects to receive.

Singapore Airlines, the world's number-two in terms of market value after U.S.-based Southwest Airlines , has not said how much it has sought in damages.

Airbus said that "four or five" of its contracts with airlines were heading for a loss.

Qantas said it was satisfied that the delay was due to production problems and not technical problems with the A380.

Last December Qantas chose Boeing to supply up to 115 Boeing 787 aircraft for its fleet renewal, worth up to A$20 billion.

Singapore Airlines ordered 20 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners worth $4.52 billion at list prices in June and said it would take rights for another 20 planes.

[Bond James Bond]

Wednesday, October 4, 2006
New Airbus delay could be Boeing boon
Only one A380 now set for '07; customers hint at reconsidering orders
By JAMES WALLACE
P-I AEROSPACE REPORTER

Airbus, its reputation already battered by two previous delays in its A380 program, announced Tuesday that its production problems are far from over and the double-decker, 555-passenger jet will be delayed another year.

It will now be next October before Singapore Airlines receives the first A380 -- the only one to be delivered next year. It was supposed to have had several planes in service by now.

Some A380 customers, most notably Emirates, which has more A380s on order than any other airline, hinted they might reconsider their orders. That could mean opportunities for The Boeing Co. And Boeing could benefit even if there are no defections from the troubled Airbus camp.

"This is a dangerous time for Airbus," said Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group, an industry consulting firm near Washington, D.C.

"This program has always been dangerously dependent on one or two key customers."

Aboulafia said Boeing should be able to sell its 747-8 passenger plane to at least one unhappy A380 customer.

"There would be questions asked if Boeing does not score at least one victory as a result of this," Aboulafia said.

Boeing has yet to land an airline order for the passenger version of the 747-8 that is now in development. It is supposed to enter service in mid-2010. The 747-8 freighter, though, has been selling well. Boeing has 30 firm orders. Emirates has said it will buy 10 747-8 freighters, though that is not yet a firm deal.

Boeing does have one order for the 747-8 passenger plane, but it is from an unidentified Middle East VIP customer, not an airline.

The company's 787 Dreamliner also could see more sales as a result of the long delay in getting the A380 to customers. That's because Airbus might not be able to shift as many resources as needed to its A350, the plane that is being redesigned to compete against the 787.

"This curtails their ability to launch an all-new plane," Aboulafia said of Airbus. "If you try and keep the A380 customer base happy, but divert resources to the A350, that's not going to wash."

Airbus did not give any indication Tuesday that the problems with the A380 will affect the development of the A350, which Airbus has said will be ready for airline service by 2012. That date is already four years after the 787 is supposed to enter airline service in the spring of 2008.

In a conference call with analysts and reporters after the latest Airbus announcement, new Airbus Chief Executive Christian Streiff said there have been "no significant signs" that any A380 customers will cancel their orders.

"Until now, everybody is still on board," he said.

But Tim Clark, president of Emirates, the fast-growing airline that has placed 45 of the 159 firm orders that Airbus has won for the A380 from 16 customers, said in a statement that the airline is reviewing "all options" regarding those orders. "This is a very serious issue for Emirates," Clark said.

Doug McVitie, managing director of the French-based aviation consulting firm Arran Aerospace, told The New York Times, "I think Emirates has had enough." He said he expects Emirates to cancel at least half its A380 orders and substitute Boeing's 747-8 passenger plane.

Several A380 customers have been evaluating the 747-8 passenger plane, including Lufthansa, Emirates and Singapore airlines.

Another A380 customer, Virgin Atlantic, will review its six-plane order at an Oct. 12 board meeting, airline spokesman Paul Charles told The Associated Press. "The depths of the delays have serious implications," he said.

Qantas is supposed to receive the third batch of A380s, after Singapore and Emirates.

In a statement, Qantas Chief Financial Officer Peter Gregg said Qantas was told by Airbus that it would not receive its first A380 aircraft until August 2008, two years late.

Gregg said Qantas was disappointed with the delay and had started a review of its capacity needs in light of the revised timetable from Airbus.

The first A380 that will go to Singapore Airlines is already in flight testing. Even with the first two rounds of delays, Airbus had told Singapore Airlines that it would get that first plane by the end of this year. The fact that the first plane will not be delivered to the airline until October 2007 suggests the problems are more serious than Airbus has indicated, Aboulafia said.

Streiff, the Airbus chief executive, said Tuesday that continued problems with the plane's complex wiring -- it has more than 300 miles of it -- are solely responsible for the delays.

But Aboulafia said he believes the A380 program has other issues as well. The plane may be overweight, he said, which would affect its performance. And that could explain why the Singapore Airlines plane that is now in flight testing will be further delayed before it is delivered to the airline.

Streiff said the depth of the wiring problem was not fully understood in June when Airbus announced the second big delay in the A380.

"The full analysis over these past weeks has revealed it is much worse than expected," he said in his statement.

Under its revised plan announced in June, Airbus was to have delivered nine planes in 2007. Streiff said Airbus will now deliver only the one Singapore plane in 2007, but 13 in 2008 -- to Singapore, Qantas and Emirates. In 2009, he said, another 25 A380s will leave the Toulouse assembly line in France. Full production will be reached by 2010, he said, when Airbus will deliver 45 A380s, including the first freighter.

The delays will be expensive for EADS, the French-German aerospace giant that owns 80 percent of Airbus. It will cut earnings over the next four years by $6.1 billion, more than double its previous estimate.

[phenom]

Airbus A380 woes may or may not help Boeing
By Paula L. Stepankowsky
Last Update: 8:28 AM ET Oct 4, 2006


Problems delaying delivery of the superjumbo Airbus A380 jet to international airlines may or may not translate into new business for archrival Boeing Co. (BA).
On Tuesday, European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. (5730.FR), or EADS, announced a further 12-month delay to its troubled A380, adding it will launch a new restructuring plan designed to cut costs and improve productivity at its Airbus unit.
EADS' statement Tuesday had been expected after the aerospace group confirmed last month that there would be further delays to the A380, the world's biggest jetliner.
But it's not yet clear what, if any, impact Airbus' continuing difficulties with the A380 will have on orders for Boeing's largest aircraft, said J.B. Groh, an analyst at D.A. Davidson & Co.
Boeing itself decided to stay out of the superjumbo business and concentrate on developing the new fuel efficient 787 Dreamliner. To accommodate large capacity demands, it is offering a larger version of its 747, the 747-8 International, which will seat a maximum of 450 passengers in three classes. So far, Boeing doesn't have orders for its new 747.
"There is the potential that anyone looking for a large aircraft could see benefits to crossing towards the Boeing side," Groh said in an interview.
Airlines that have already placed orders for the A380 are not likely to jump ship just yet, Groh said.
"You are probably upset, but probably also getting some sort of penalty payment or credit, so your acquisition cost is probably going down," he said.
But airlines with large capacity needs that have been waiting to see how Airbus would manage its production problems could consider Boeing, Groh said.
While Boeing doesn't have a directly comparable product, the 747-8 "is not hugely different, and you have lower trip risks," particularly if the flight isn't fully booked, Groh said.
The 777 might also suit some customers if their expansion plans depend on a large aircraft, said Groh, who doesn't own Boeing stock and whose company doesn't provide it banking services.
Earlier Tuesday, a number of airlines - including Emirates Airlines (EA.YY), Air France (3112.FR) and Germany's Lufthansa AG (LHA.YY) - had said they were expecting hold-ups to the A380 of up to a year.
But the airlines also warned they are considering their options on A380 orders, raising the possibility that some orders could be canceled.
Airbus so far has received 159 orders for the A380 but needs at least 300 to break even.
The Tuesday announcement was the latest in a string of difficulties for Airbus' A380 program. In June, Airbus slashed the number of scheduled deliveries of the superjumbo in 2007 as it announced a second six-month delay and a EUR2 billion profit warning, prompting a plunge in EADS shares the following day.
As a result, Airbus' two top executives left the company, and other executive and production changes were made.
For its part, Boeing stock rallied to close up 2.26% Tuesday, as it did when Airbus announced its June delays. But the burst likely won't last, said UBS analyst David Strauss in a research note.
"After the market digests this near-term positive, we expect BA to drift lower much like last time," he wrote, adding that he is concerned about Boeing's "decelerating book-to-bill" ratio.
Strauss also said the A380 trouble should serve as a warning to investors that Boeing, which is to launch its own new plane, the 787, could also head into a rough patch.
"The A380 debacle should also serve as a reminder that new aircraft programs typically run into problems and rarely deliver to schedule and we believe the 787 is unlikely the exception," he wrote.
He said he views the 787 schedule risk as much greater than for the A380.
"BA is pushing the envelope further with the design and outsourcing of the 787 and is pursuing an unprecedented production ramp," he wrote.

[phenom]

Airbus in a huge mess
Geoff Easdown and agencies
October 05, 2006 12:00am



EUROPEAN aircraft builder Airbus has admitted it faces huge losses and demands to pay its airline customers a fortune in compensation over the latest production delay afflicting its A380 super jumbo.

The Franco-German consortium admitted yesterday the latest delivery setback - the third in 16 months - would carve 4.8 billion ($A8.21 billion) from income over the next four years.
Angry launch customers Qantas, Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Air France and Lufthansa indicated they would be seeking compensation.

Airbus's parent, European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co, had earlier advised the German stock exchange that production of the new flagship aircraft was two years behind forecasts.

The first planes are now not expected to be delivered until the second half of 2007. Qantas will not see its first A380s until August 2008.

The latest delays sent the shares of EADS into a tailspin, with the stock briefly suspended as it slid past a trigger point of 10.8 per cent. The shares closed down 7 per cent.

Qantas shares also closed lower yesterday, down 3 to $3.93.

Qantas has already been reimbursed $US80 million ($A107 million) by Airbus because of past A380 delivery setbacks and officials made it clear yesterday they intended to pursue a further claim.

Macquarie Bank's Paul Huxford said the new delay "offers the prospect of additional liquidated damages".

"It may also leave key competitors short of capacity, namely Emirates and Singapore Airlines," Mr Huxford said.

Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti said the latest delay had forced the company to review all aspects of the A380 program. The national carrier has signed orders for 12 planes and holds options for 10 more.

Mr Borghetti told BusinessDaily Qantas would now have to look at other measures to build capacity.

"We are going through a review to see what all of this means and how we will compensate for the lack of capacity," Mr Borghetti said.

"We will either bring in new aircraft or lease capacity," he added, noting that Qantas had bought two 300-seat A330-200 jets after the second delivery delay was announced in June.

Yesterday the A380 launch customers added to the aircraft builder's woes by refusing to give a clear response to questions whether they would take the plane or cancel orders.

Emirates, with a $30 billion order for 45 aircraft, said only it was reviewing "all options".

The United Arab Emirates civil aviation department embarked on a $US2.5 billion expansion of Dubai International Airport in 2002, aiming to have it ready for the expected arrival this year of the country's first A380.

Singapore Airlines, which had hoped to become the first commercial carrier to put the A380 into service before Christmas, also has left the future of its 19-plane order in limbo.

Company spokesman Stephen Forshaw said only that a study would be made of the reasons for the delay. "We'll respond when we've finished studying details of the delay and other material from Airbus," Mr Forshaw said.

The latest A380 setbacks were big news around the world, with analysts variously describing Tuesday's company announcement as a veritable disaster for the Airbus.

Sydney-based aviation expert John Harbison said the delays were likely to be felt most keenly in the Middle East.

Emirates' growth and that of its home city Dubai could be slowed by the delays, Mr Harbison said, adding that this could be positive news for the airline's competitors.

Emirates had been on track to become the world's largest long-haul carrier (by seats) by 2012: a goal it would no doubt strive to maintain, said Mr Harbison, the executive chairman of the Sydney based Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation.

Emirates needs the capacity to maintain its rapid growth agenda, and cancelling the order would require an alternative aircraft plan.

Richard Aboulafia, vice president of the United States based Teal Group of aviation consultants, supported Mr Harbison's comments, adding that "It is an extremely dangerous time for Airbus. Time is not on their side."

[spongeg]

sad news

[DiggerD21]

What I've heard in the news today:

In order to safe costs (especially the expensive transport costs of the construction parts), Airbus is thinking about building the A380 completely in Toulouse. This would also mean a relocation of ca. 2000 Jobs from Hamburg to Toulouse. The City of Hamburg has warned Airbus about a reimbursement of ca. 660 million (tax-)Euros which the city had invested to upgrade the Airbus facilities in Hamburg (including prolongation of the runway - which itself was a heavy legal act to realise) if the production will be completely relocated to Toulouse. The federal german government is thinking about buying a considerable amount of shares of Airbus in order to keep the jobs in Hamburg.

[SLAA]

I haven't flown Emirates for about 5 years now...How is the service? With all the expansion projects, and advertisements with the jazzy seats and everything, shouldn't it be an EXCELLENT airline??

[SLAA]

Which is better? Emirates or Etihad??

[EK413]

Thats what Emirates is.....Nothing but a Singapore Airlines 'Wanna be'....

[musang]

from my experience.. i chose Etihad. at least the cabin crew r friendlier.

[OshHisham]

it is not '4 class'...but '4 stars',k?....maybe,the logo is pretty lame,just a flag...go change the better one!!

[Maltaboy]

Definitely Emirates but Etihad is coming up fast ! Good luck to them both !

[zergcerebrates]

Where did you get the info that says its a 4star airline?

Perhaps it still lacks one aspect that a 5star airline has?

BTW its logo is fine and classy, very sharp and elegant. Many carriers use their flags on the livery like South African, JAL(boring design), Korean Air, British Airways,etc.

[zee]

emirates is still a 4 star because of the number of complaints it recieves