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Old August 10th, 2013, 02:41 AM   #1981
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Spain won't be in crisis forever. It is best to adopt this solution and not kill beforehand the undeground project, something that would happen if they did as you suggest.
No it isnīt.

A better option was/is to use the current station, upgrade it, and install the third rail. Murcia isnīt electrified, so no worries about electric incompatibilities.

You canīt put the high speed station away from the center in a city of 440,000 inhabitants (well, as a matter of fact, you cam, but itīs certainly NOT the best option).

And no we wonīt be in crisis forever, but the thing is that you serve better a city of that size by having the station in the sity center, thatīs bloody obvious.
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Old August 10th, 2013, 03:34 AM   #1982
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using the old station seems to be the best option to me but... is it the last station of the HSL?

Maybe it could lead to excesive extra time for trains going further away.
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Old August 10th, 2013, 06:00 AM   #1983
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using the old station seems to be the best option to me but... is it the last station of the HSL?

Maybe it could lead to excesive extra time for trains going further away.
No, the extra time would be negligible, and on the other hand, people coming from Almeria would have access to the city center too.
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Old August 10th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #1984
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Valladolid-Venta de Baņos-Burgos HSL.
Viaduct over river Pisuerga, under construction.

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Old August 11th, 2013, 02:30 AM   #1985
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The National Statistics Institute (INE, in Spanish) issued yesterday the data about the evolution of passengers.

These data are rather good in AVE and Long Distance (LD) trains.

In July were achieved the best ever numbers of passengers, passengers/km and income in the history of Renfe.

To make yourselves an idea, the number of AVE passengers increased in May by an 18% compared to the same month of the previous year, in June it increased by a 23% (18% if we donīt count Girona nor Alicante), in July by a 29% (20% if we donīt count Alicante nor Girona), and in August... by a 44%!! (33% if we donīt count Alicante nor Girona).

The income for AVE in August are growing by a rate of 18%.

Overall, the lot AVE+LD in July (which usually is the month with more traffic of the year) increased by a 14%, and in August by a 21%.

All of this, despite the crisis.

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Old August 11th, 2013, 03:41 AM   #1986
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It's good to hear that Renfe's renewed pricing strategy is paying off.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #1987
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All of this, despite the crisis.
Despite or actually because of? Could it be that part of the extra passengers are people that can't afford cars anymore and now have to use public transport?
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Old August 11th, 2013, 02:01 PM   #1988
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Despite or actually because of? Could it be that part of the extra passengers are people that can't afford cars anymore and now have to use public transport?
Sounds unlikely to me. Those numbers are for long distance traffic which is usually optional (that is not for commuting to job or school) plus I suspect buses are still the cheapest option for the most price conscious. More likely culprit is the price reduction by Renfe.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 02:16 PM   #1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
To make yourselves an idea, the number of AVE passengers increased in May by an 18% compared to the same month of the previous year, in June it increased by a 23% (18% if we donīt count Girona nor Alicante), in July by a 29% (20% if we donīt count Alicante nor Girona), and in August... by a 44%!! (33% if we donīt count Alicante nor Girona).
437001 had a heat syncope i believe......
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #1990
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Despite or actually because of? Could it be that part of the extra passengers are people that can't afford cars anymore and now have to use public transport?
Actually, commuter train numbers are not good, since thereīs been an increase of ticket prices.

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Sounds unlikely to me. Those numbers are for long distance traffic which is usually optional (that is not for commuting to job or school) plus I suspect buses are still the cheapest option for the most price conscious. More likely culprit is the price reduction by Renfe.
Iīd say it is the case.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:20 PM   #1991
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437001 had a heat syncope i believe......
The source is from a Renfe insider, someone much more reliable than yourself.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 03:56 AM   #1992
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The source is from a Renfe insider, someone much more reliable than yourself.
Well, he was increasingly drunk, those figures are just a joke. A 11 % percent price decrease that gives a 33 % demand increase, please....
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Old August 12th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #1993
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I think they are playing well. Little discount and mainly in valley hours or days.
I have read the same data in some other news.

By the way I agree that despite the crisis and no because of. From my city to Madrid there is a nice bus service quite slower and quite cheaper. When the hsl started they knew that they would get part of classic trains demand because hsl was terribly expensive compared with them. Hsl took a lot of passengers from the plane and car.

Now I know people who decided to pay hsl because of discounts.

I remember one who said that he had a budget for tickets. He assumed some of them with full fare in case of other ones with discounts.

I know a mate from Andalucia who goes there every two months with all the family. He told me that supossed he find discounts, four tickets bought. Couldn't he, thus car for all the family. Now he is not using the car.....
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Old August 12th, 2013, 01:16 PM   #1994
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Well, he was increasingly drunk, those figures are just a joke. A 11 % percent price decrease that gives a 33 % demand increase, please....
That is very plausible, if the price-elasticity of demand is high enough.

A gas station that slashed prices by 11% in a medium-sized city would probably see revenue soar more than 33% at least on the short term (for instance).
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Old August 12th, 2013, 02:13 PM   #1995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That is very plausible, if the price-elasticity of demand is high enough.

A gas station that slashed prices by 11% in a medium-sized city would probably see revenue soar more than 33% at least on the short term (for instance).
In trains and planes we have another factor to look after, wich is load factor, in a official statement from the government the load factor for AVE services was already at 75% in June, that information was provided at the same time that they indicated a 14% increase in number of people using the train. 75% percent is already higher than the figure in France which are only 70 %.

A increase of 33% in number of people travelling AVE services implies a load factor well above 80%, even if these summer there are more seats available than the previous summer. Ryanair and Easy jet, that can decide where exactly the plane will travel next, have a load factor of slightly more than 80 %, the airplane industry highest.

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La ocupación media del AVE se ha incrementado con respecto a 2012 y alcanza ya el 75%
http://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/Servicio...110613-ave.htm
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Old August 12th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #1996
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How does Renfe report on load factor though? Let's consider Madrid - Zaragoza - Barcelona high-speed service: people might board and alight in Zaragoza. How does it weigh the total load factor for that train?

Does it consider, overall, some measure or seat-km paid vs. seat-km offered?
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Old August 12th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #1997
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As far as I know it is as you said, seat-km Vs seat offered in total.
This is why there are certain trips that you can buy with terribly fares. For instance, Madrid-Bilbao will have great discounts in the Miranda-Bilbao part. Furthermore, it is the third time I read here that one specific train offers tickets Zaragoza-Tudela for less than 3 euro (90 km in conventional line). If you go via tolled motorway I think that until the first exit (25 km) costs 2,6...... so that barely a free journey.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #1998
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If Renfe is achieving so high load factors, it shows it is doing yield management right: attracting passengers just barely above the marginal cost, if necessary, without just giving out low fares to everyone everytime, so that it maximizes revenue by filling up seats with the proper pricing strategy.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 09:00 PM   #1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
If Renfe is achieving so high load factors, it shows it is doing yield management right: attracting passengers just barely above the marginal cost, if necessary, without just giving out low fares to everyone everytime, so that it maximizes revenue by filling up seats with the proper pricing strategy.
Perhaps they can run a small operational profit now. But that does not help much in recouping the initial investment cost does it.

Some people point to the intangible benefits of the connections in the peripheral regions that got connected. But looking at the state of the economy so far at least the positive effects are not significant.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #2000
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The long distance services of Renfe are on profit since some years ago.

Furthermore, the whole Renfe (including Cercanías and regional trains) got in profits in 2010 for the first time in the history thanks to the profits in the long distance services.
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