daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 30th, 2013, 04:14 PM   #2141
SAS 16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Madrid Spain European Union
Posts: 283
Likes (Received): 160

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homem View Post
Migration from one mode of transport to another seems to take too much time in Spain. I think after 5 years of operation rail vs plane should be higher between Madrid and Barcelona.
Naturally, the ridiculous prices charged by the RENFE on the AVE connections were a major obstacle. I hope soon the balance between MAD and BCN will become normal (+- 75/80% for rail)
You are right in the MAD BCN door to door case because as suburbanist said it has a very hard competition from planes. However in the rest of spain when new lines were opened it didnt took to much time to kill the plane (valencia,alicante,zaragoza,malaga)
Quote:
Does that statistic include air passengers who are only making a flight connection in either city?
I have no idea
SAS 16 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 30th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #2142
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Both Madrid and Barcelona are major airports, probably not that many people who are flying from one to another for onward travel.

The difference between Seville and Barcelona routes must come from tougher competition and more recent opening. Is it perhaps easier to get to airport in Barcelona? Travel time from Madrid is almost identical to both cities.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 01:01 AM   #2143
SAS 16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Madrid Spain European Union
Posts: 283
Likes (Received): 160

Quote:
The difference between Seville and Barcelona routes must come from tougher competition and more recent opening.
True indeed. Before new fare system travelling by HSR Madrid Barcelona was way too expensive with fares going to more than 140-180 EUR for go and return with limited discounts which were hard to catch. Plane used to cost around 60+EUR go and return. Now if you check with sometime in advance the AVE tickects can be around 64 to 80 EUR g/r which is very apealling.

Quote:
Is it perhaps easier to get to airport in Barcelona?
Hard? not so much but there is no metro and its easier to get to the train station
Quote:
Travel time from Madrid is almost identical to both cities.
I think one of the main issues here beside the price and the competition from air is that MAD SEV has 21 years of operation in its backs and it has reached maturirty like you said
SAS 16 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 05:13 PM   #2144
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Both Madrid and Barcelona are major airports, probably not that many people who are flying from one to another for onward travel.
Yes there are.
Both airports (Madrid-Barajas and Barcelona-El Prat) have different traffics.
Madrid is the major European hub for South America, which Barcelona isn´t.
Plenty of trips (like say, Barcelona-Santiago de Chile) have to be done via Madrid (or had to, till very recent times).

Quote:
The difference between Seville and Barcelona routes must come from tougher competition and more recent opening. Is it perhaps easier to get to airport in Barcelona?
Yes.

Quote:
Travel time from Madrid is almost identical to both cities.
The difference is not the plane, it´s the car.
It is easier (and shorter) to drive from Seville to Madrid than from Barcelona to Madrid.
In both cases the AVE is competitive with the road, but in the case of Barcelona-Madrid the plane is still practical for those going to northern Madrid business areas, or to another country (mainly South America, but also other destinations).
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 03:38 AM   #2145
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Madrid-Galicia HSL/Vigo-Santiago upgraded line.
Vigo-Urzáiz station.

A photo of the works:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltan View Post
And three renders of the way it should theoretically look:

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuromancer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltan View Post


__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #2146
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Zaragoza-Delicias station.

An AVE from Madrid-Atocha arriving at Zaragoza, today at 18:28, 20 minutes late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adpg View Post








__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 12:39 AM   #2147
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Is being late very unusual? It should be as the tracks are not shared with freight and commuter trains.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 01:03 AM   #2148
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Is being late very unusual? It should be as the tracks are not shared with freight and commuter trains.
It is unusual, yes.
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 01:18 AM   #2149
Manamer
-
 
Manamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,455
Likes (Received): 871

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Is being late very unusual? It should be as the tracks are not shared with freight and commuter trains.
As 437.001 said, it's not usual. In fact, if a train arrives 5 minutes late or more in Madrid-Sevilla HSL all passengers will have a 100% ticket refund.

Rest of spanish HSL lines:

>15 minutes late: 50% refund.
>30 minutes late: 100% refund.
__________________
"Madre mía, madre mía, es chica la avería."
Manamer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 01:52 AM   #2150
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,848

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Is being late very unusual? It should be as the tracks are not shared with freight and commuter trains.
It is unusual either being late, either so many passengers in Zaragoza station. It is a station that receives a lot of passengers but I do not remember ever a double train calling at Zaragoza and many people getting off.

The reason is that this week (starting tomorrow and finishing on Sunday 13th) Zaragoza has major days (main day is Saturday 12th) and a lot of people try to stay in the city. Sometimes someone has relatives or friends and try to make a visit. Other times there are people from this city who live away and within all the weekends that come home, these ones are some of them.

For next weekend several Madrid-Zaragoza special trains have been scheduled and already full.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 04:15 AM   #2151
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Yes... like 75,000 tickets sold or something like that already, for El Pilar festival in Zaragoza.
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 11:23 AM   #2152
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
And three renders of the way it should theoretically look...
Who's the architect of the new Vigo station? The style reminds me of Daniel Liebeskind.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 12:36 PM   #2153
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Who's the architect of the new Vigo station? The style reminds me of Daniel Liebeskind.
Thom Mayne / Morphosis

http://morphopedia.com/projects/vialia-vigo
__________________

437.001 liked this post
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #2154
Adpg
53 + Ci2 (L)
 
Adpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oliver - Casetas
Posts: 19,140
Likes (Received): 4801

AVE from Barcelona Sants arriving at Zaragoza Delicias destination Madrid Puerta de Atocha.

__________________
Mi canal de Youtube Trenes, Urbanismo, Zaragoza, Meteorología
Mi blog de economía y finanzas

solchante liked this post
Adpg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #2155
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 889
Likes (Received): 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Is being late very unusual? It should be as the tracks are not shared with freight and commuter trains.
http://www.elmundo.es/mundodinero/20...289304399.html

According to this El Mundo article (Europa press) from October 2010, AVE services are the second most on time HSR service in the world after the Japanese Shinkansen.

Trains on time:

* Shinkansen 99%
* AVE 98,5%
* KTX 93,7%
* TGV 92,5%
* Eurostar 91,6%
* Italian HSR 87%
* German HSR 79%
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 08:28 PM   #2156
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
http://www.elmundo.es/mundodinero/20...289304399.html

According to this El Mundo article (Europa press) from October 2010, AVE services are the second most on time HSR service in the world after the Japanese Shinkansen.

Trains on time:

* Shinkansen 99%
* AVE 98,5%
* KTX 93,7%
* TGV 92,5%
* Eurostar 91,6%
* Italian HSR 87%
* German HSR 79%
Where is CRH?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2013, 08:39 PM   #2157
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21258

I've read reports that certain AVE services have up to 15 minutes of schedule padding on them, and that trains routinely arrive far in advance of the scheduled arrival, especially on the Barcelona-Madrid non-stop services.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2013, 04:14 AM   #2158
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

That´s part of the trick.
Renfe plays with the timetables, giving AVE trains longer stopping times at the stations to be more on time.
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 10:08 AM   #2159
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Not only is it a smart move to keep punctuality at all-time high levels, it's also reassuring to Renfe's customers so they know they'll be able to make a connecting train. Especially when considering Renfe's low-density regional network, I think most passengers will understand and might even prefer the longer stopping times in stations.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 05:09 PM   #2160
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Most of them don´t know about this policy, which sometimes is applied in classic trains too.

On the other hand though, travel times could be faster if they had tighter timetables, but they would also be more prone to delays.
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
adif, ave, high speed rail, spain in the world, valencia, zaragoza

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium